150 réponses à ce sujet

[Plaintiff]

DinoSteve wrote...

Why couldn't they have equality while living along side humans.

It would still require humans to sacrifice land and share resources, which they're not going to do.

As I already stated, the decent, livable, non-hostile land is already fully occupied.

Besdes which, the Dalish clearly don't want any involvement with humans if they can avoid it, and that's entirely their right.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 06 juin 2013 - 05:17 .

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

We are not only talking about the Dalish, if the elves already living beside humans get equal rights they would be fit to better themselves the way everyone else does.
Eventually they will be fit to move out of the Ailenge and into better housing, then when the Dailsh see other elves living free, they will follow suit and if not they will end up being the travelers of Thedas, but it will be there own choice.

The only battle the elves need to fight is one for equality.

[Plaintiff]

DinoSteve wrote...

We are not only talking about the Dalish, if the elves already living beside humans get equal rights they would be fit to better themselves the way everyone else does.
Eventually they will be fit to move out of the Ailenge and into better housing, then when the Dailsh see other elves living free, they will follow suit and if not they will end up being the travelers of Thedas, but it will be there own choice.

The only battle the elves need to fight is one for equality.

The only way anyone ever acheives equality is with a demonstration of power.

[RobRam10]

Velanna solving stuff... NO!

Modifié par RobRam10, 06 juin 2013 - 06:14 .

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Plaintiff wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

We are not only talking about the Dalish, if the elves already living beside humans get equal rights they would be fit to better themselves the way everyone else does.
Eventually they will be fit to move out of the Ailenge and into better housing, then when the Dailsh see other elves living free, they will follow suit and if not they will end up being the travelers of Thedas, but it will be there own choice.

The only battle the elves need to fight is one for equality.

The only way anyone ever acheives equality is with a demonstration of power.

Martin Luther King and Mahatma Gandhi, would like to disagree with you.

But that was never my point, I have no problem with them fighting as long as its for the right thing. Elves will never gain equality by conquering a land, they will only gain equality when the make humans everywhere recognise their rights.

[Plaintiff]

DinoSteve wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

We are not only talking about the Dalish, if the elves already living beside humans get equal rights they would be fit to better themselves the way everyone else does.
Eventually they will be fit to move out of the Ailenge and into better housing, then when the Dailsh see other elves living free, they will follow suit and if not they will end up being the travelers of Thedas, but it will be there own choice.

The only battle the elves need to fight is one for equality.

The only way anyone ever acheives equality is with a demonstration of power.

Martin Luther King and Mahatma Gandhi, would like to disagree with you.

A demonstration of power doesn't necessarily involve violence. WHat King and GHandi did was very much a demonstration of power.

But the elves do not have the luxury of non-violent methods. Their situation is much more dire.

But that was never my point, I have no problem with them fighting as long as its for the right thing. Elves will never gain equality by conquering a land, they will only gain equality when the make humans everywhere recognise their rights.

The humans won't recognise their rights if the elves don't have land.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 06 juin 2013 - 09:55 .

[Asdrubael Vect]

Aolbain wrote...

Dark Korsar wrote...

MisterJB

"Considering no one who participated in that war is alive today, I see no reason why the innocent descendants of the humans who conquered the Dales must sacrifice everything for the sake of the innocent descendants of the elves who escaped."

but their "innocent" descendants still alive and they still opress, kill, rape them for generations without any problems and not allow them to defend themselfs, live in non-alianage territories, have their own culture and not worchip Maker

and Dalish have not much better life because of Orlais and their Chantry

if those "innocent" descedants of opressors,killers,rapists invaders not leave Dales(even with their property to make it more easy) peacefully so they will be forced to leave and would be executed(or mindcontroled to leave by blood magic) if they resist

If you are willing to commit genocide over fictional disputes I really hope you never get yourself fixated with a real world issue. #shudders#

facepalm...what a genocide are you talking about? or do you thing that the war its just a stupid massacre of all members of opposive side? elves are not a darkspawns with their tactic of full massacre and infection if you forget:D

when elves start a war, big part of people simply frightened and run from this lands, other part will run then they see a many angy elves with weapons and torches who going near their homes and fight with soldiers, other part will try to fight but when they have a lot of losses(or you call this a "genocide":D) many of them will start deserting and run too...

and what we have it is a some part of  people who not left or hiding in their homes when elves already conquer their own lands back....and as i understand you think that elves need a massacre all of this lefted scared peoples rather than just simply drive them away by many non-violent(without killing) methods....even in the worst part of scenario most of this lefted peopes will run if they see that elves kill some of those who try to fight with them after lands was conquered

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 06 juin 2013 - 08:57 .

[Aolbain]

@Dark Korsar(goddamn iPhone): Forced to leave their homes under threat of exection. Sounds like genocide and ethnicall cleansing to me.

[Asdrubael Vect]

Aolbain wrote...

@Dark Korsar(goddamn iPhone): Forced to leave their homes under threat of exection. Sounds like genocide and ethnicall cleansing to me.

when dwarves started to reclaim back their ancient thaigs form darkspawns you will not call this genocide:D

elven war is not so different from many others human wars in Thedas, but all what they wanted is reclaim their lands and drive(not rule or enslave or massacre them) Orlais humans away....like Fereldens, Nevarras did with Orlais forces or like many Thedas countries did with Qunari

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 06 juin 2013 - 09:11 .

[Aolbain]

Dark Korsar wrote...

Aolbain wrote...

@Dark Korsar(goddamn iPhone): Forced to leave their homes under threat of exection. Sounds like genocide and ethnicall cleansing to me.

when dwarves started to reclaim back their ancient thaigs form darkspawns you will not call this genocide:D

elven war is not so different from many others humans war, all what they wanted is reclaim their land and drive(not rule or enslave or massacre them) human away

1. No, I will not. Darkspawns are not a sapient race, with one big exception.

2. For the first of all, the dales are not their land. They haven't lived there for many century's. 
Now, I am all for giving the elves a land of their own but do we have to put it somewhere there
already lives a ****load of people? Also? They started it is a bad excuse to commit crimes against humanity (bad wording aside).

Modifié par Aolbain, 06 juin 2013 - 09:19 .

[Asdrubael Vect]

Aolbain wrote...

Dark Korsar wrote...

Aolbain wrote...

@Dark Korsar(goddamn iPhone): Forced to leave their homes under threat of exection. Sounds like genocide and ethnicall cleansing to me.

when dwarves started to reclaim back their ancient thaigs form darkspawns you will not call this genocide:D

elven war is not so different from many others humans war, all what they wanted is reclaim their land and drive(not rule or enslave or massacre them) human away

1. No, I will not. Darkspawns are not a sapient race, with one big exception.

2. For the first of all, the dales are not their land. They haven't lived there for many century's. 
Now, I am all for giving the elves a land of their own but do we have to put it somewhere there
already lives a ****load of people? Also? They started it is a bad excuse to commit crimes against humanity (bad wording aside).

1)even without Architect they all still sapient race even with their own culture, exept for Mother Childrens and some Ogres who are not so smart

2)ORLY??? say it for all thousands city elves who still live in Orlais or dalish clans who still lives in this lands. this was always their lands and always would be

we put it in the place where already lives a very big populations of elves, or you suggest all them to go and live in some uninhabited dessert or swamp where no human would wanted to live:D and why should they not conquer and live in their own lands? maybe Orlais humans need to go and live in others human kingdoms

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 06 juin 2013 - 09:47 .

[RobRam10]

Darkspawn are the corrupted versions of the races of Thedas, they have been a plague since the First Blight, they destroy or corrupt everything they touch, they're monsters and such they should be purge from the face of Thedas. Even if they have culture they're still monsters destroying them would be a favor to all of Thedas.

Anyways onto the blasted elves, if they ever want to have a new land they should work with their relations with humans if they ever hope to not have it destroy a third time.
The Dalish needs to learn that they live in a world where humanity is supreme and that the worship of the Maker is also supreme and that they're gods are not welcome into Andrastian nations and should lower whatever rituals or ceremonies they perform in the name of they're gods if they would do that then the other Human nations would ignore them enough for them to live happily also because of they're distrust for humans or they're reluctancy to aid them during a Blight was factor to Humans dissatisfaction with the Dales.

Modifié par RobRam10, 06 juin 2013 - 09:53 .

[DPSSOC]

[quote]Plaintiff wrote...
[quote]DPSSOC wrote...
Ok firstly let me point out the insanity of proposing a mass murderer as the source of a solution to centuries of hostile relations.[/quote]
I'm curious; What do you think successful generals and military leaders are, if not the killers of many, many people? For that matter, what do you think all of your companions are?[/quote]

At what point did I advocate generals, military leaders, or any of our companions as people to look to for solutions to on going hostile relations?

[quote]Plaintiff wrote...
Not that Velanna's past actions have any relevance to future undertakings at all.[/quote]

Sure they do.  The OP suggests that Velanna could provide a relatively bloodless way for the Dalish to get the Dales back, her history of violent behaviour is relevant to her ability to do so.

[quote]Plaintiff wrote...


[quote]Secondly the Dalish have no claim to the Dales.[/quote]Just like those pesky Native Americans, with all their whining and casinos.[/quote]

Not quite.  The Natives never stopped maintaining settlements and practicing their culture within the country.  if the Natives packed up their stuff and left the country, and there'd been nothing even remotely resembling a permanent settlement in 700 years then I'd be saying they don't have any claim to the land.

[quote]Plaintiff wrote...


[quote]You cannot abandon a region for 700 years and still claim it as yours.[/quote]
Maybe not, but that's not what happened at all. The Dalish were driven out violently.[/quote]

No they weren't, they were given the option of submit to human rule or flee.  Those who fled abandoned the Dales.

[quote]Plaintiff wrote...


[quote]If the Dalish had stayed in the Dales; still moving, still keeping nomadic, but keeping to that region; then yeah they would still have some claim,[/quote]
They'd also all be dead.[/quote]

I'm not saying set up towns and villages and camp out, or they could submit to human rule and maintain their culture in secret (much like groups have had to do in our history).

[quote]Plaintiff wrote...


[quote]but that's not what they did, they scattered themselves across Thedas and only meet up in the Dales on occasion.[/quote]
I see. How long do I have to be absent from my house before it's legally up for grabs to any squatters who happen to be passing?[/quote]

As someone mentioned before there are laws covering squatters rights and it varies depending on where you are.  However I'm almost certain it's less than 700 years no matter where you go.

[quote]Plaintiff wrote...


[quote]Finally you're ignoring the other half of a fight or flight response.  Even if the humans are initially driven out by fear of the demon trees, as soon as the Dalish start to settle there they'll no what's up, who's to blame, and eventually they'll bring the hammer down.[/quote]
Not if there's a whole magical, sentient forest surrounding it where visiting humans mysteriously 'vanish'.
[/quote]

That would just speed things up.  I'm not talking about displaced villagers and town folks rushing in with pitchforks and torches I'm talking nations eventually showing up with armies.  No nation is going to take the violent displacement of their people lightly.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Plaintiff wrote...
The humans won't recognise their rights if the elves don't have land.

That is absurd, there are many instances in our history of people without land gaining rights.

[Asdrubael Vect]

RobRam10 wrote...

Darkspawn are the corrupted versions of the races of Thedas, they have been a plague since the First Blight, they destroy or corrupt everything they touch, they're monsters and such they should be purge from the face of Thedas. Even if they have culture they're still monsters destroying them would be a favor to all of Thedas.

Anyways onto the blasted elves, if they ever want to have a new land they should work with their relations with humans if they ever hope to not have it destroy a third time.
The Dalish needs to learn that they live in a world where humanity is supreme and that the worship of the Maker is also supreme and that they're gods are not welcome into Andrastian nations and should lower whatever rituals or ceremonies they perform in the name of they're gods if they would do that then the other Human nations would ignore them enough for them to live happily also because of they're distrust for humans or they're reluctancy to aid them during a Blight was factor to Humans dissatisfaction with the Dales.

1)of course but still they are sapient race who have their own culture so huntig them to simply killing because they have contagious disease is still a genocite...and do not forget what race created them...so maybe we do a favor for Thedas end wipe all of them for their crimes and to prevent any future problems:D

2)they pretty well will worked with humans relationship if they destroy Orlais with their Chantry and they would have a lot of supporters to do such from other human kingdoms and dwarves:D

year Orlais peoples with their Chantry is already learn how their are "supreme" in Thedas:D and Orlais Chantry religion is never was the main religion of all Thedas population.

The only supreme force in Thedas is who control magic, because who controls magic can control and change the world and fade itself for his wishes

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 06 juin 2013 - 10:46 .

[LobselVith8]

[quote]In Exile wrote...

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

I know there's a Circle in Orlais (although the lore seems to consistently change in regards to how many Circles there actually are, and where they are located), so I think the conflict would be focused mainly in that region.  [/quote]

Whether or not there is a Circle in Orlais doesn't mean that the Empire itself will be drawn into a dispute betwene the templars/mages, even with the civil war going on. [/quote]

I was talking about where the mages and templars might clash with one another, since I don't believe there's a Circle of Magi in the Dales. The nation seems to house human settlements along the water and a resort for the ruling family, so I think the region could deal with the elven conflict exclusively in the actual game.

[quote]In Exile wrote...

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

The Circles of Magi exist throughout the Andrastian kingdoms, with templars stationed in those regions, so I imagine the fighting would break out all over. I think that's why Varric talks about the world being on the brink of war. [/quote]

But that still doesn't mean that (i) the war would last forever, (ii) the war would involve the actual nations, versus remain extrateritorial; (iii) all of Thedas won't just declare an Exalted March against the mages and elves. [/quote]

We don't know how long the war will last, but I'm sure the mages and templars are committed to their goal, so I doubt it'll be short. I don't doubt the war could involve the kingdoms where the war is taking place, in one form or another. And I'm thinking that having Orlais sitting between an independent Dales and possibly two pro-mage kingdoms (Ferelden and Nevarra via hypothetical mage ruler filling the vaccum of power) they would be less inclined to declare an Exalted March against the elves or the mages.

[quote]In Exile wrote...

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

Humans don't need to be massacred to be resettled, but that's not really the discussion here.  [/quote]

Only in the magical fantasy world that you live in will people abandon their home for 700 years because an invading army demands that they do, so they can live in exile... where, exactly? [/quote]

We've had this discussion over and over where I explained this, and as I pointed out previously in this thread, this isn't what I was discussing. I even underlined that I was talking about an independent Dales, with the elves being their own masters, instead of living under Orlesian rule.

[quote]In Exile wrote...

What do you think is going to happen when armed elves show up in front of your home and say "Leave or ... ?"

What do you think the "..." means? And what do you think the people there are going to do when they try to steal their homes, their land, and send them all into exile? [/quote]

It means forcible relocation. However, this isn't part of the ongoing discussion, so I see little reason for you to bring it up when I already know where this is going to go before we even start.

[quote]In Exile wrote...

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

Helping the elves reclaim leadership of the Dales could establish an ally in the region,  [/quote]

Why would the human mages want to help a group that has nothing in common with them acquire political power that they could use against them on racial lines? The entire reason that they're fighting the war is oppression and bigotry. [/quote]

There are a number of reasons why. I even pointed out having an ally in the region when you consider the threat that Orlais and the Chantry of Andraste might pose. A kingdom where the elves can be their own masters, where they won't be purged by humans in impoverished slums for rallying against the injustices they face. The elves can reclaim their kingdom and live as equals, rather than being limited to servants or slaves. Where they can be free to worship their own gods again, without being prohibited by Chantry law like they are in the Andrastian kingdoms. That would be the point and the premise behind an independent elven kingdom.

[quote]In Exile wrote...

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

which might be possible if an alliance is brokered between the People and the independent mages. [/quote]

Again, why would human mages side with elf mundanes for the sake of elves at the expense of humans? [/quote]

I'm not sure why you're taking the approach that an alliance is impossible. There are many hypothetical scenarios where the mages and the Dalish could become allies. If apostate Hawke romanced Merrill and was encouraged to become a leader to the mages by Anders (via "You truly are the leader we have waited centuries for" in the Gallows at the conclusion of the game and his suggestion to become a leader earlier on in the game), I already have one. Generally speaking, we have human and elven mages among the ranks of the newly autonomous Circles, and I'm sure that both groups could use allies for their respective goals.

[quote]In Exile wrote...

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

Having the elves on one side and the mages on the other could weakn Orlais' position to attack either one, which could be part of the premise behind a hypothetical alliance between the Dalish clans and the mages of the autonomous Circles. [/quote]

Or it could be a single to every mundane in Thedas that it's the time to put aside national differences and unite against the greatest threat to the human mundanes since the Blight. 

The worst thing you can do in a war is give people a common cause based on what the paranoid racist lunatics fear. [/quote]

I'm sure the Mage-Templar War (that could be a continential conflict since the Circles were all over the continent) and the Orlesian civil war over the throne is going to complicate those hypothetical scenarios.

[quote]In Exile wrote...

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

I'm going to simply ignore the genocide comment, because it doesn't have anything to do with what I actually said. [/quote]

How exactly are the mages going to rule over Nevarra? If it isn't forced resettlement - which counts as genocide - then it's going to be through autocratic oppression and a Nevarran Imperium. [/quote]

I suggested a mage protagonist taking the throne, which is no different than Alistair or Anora claiming the throne of Ferelden (except the obvious fact that the new ruler would be a mage in this hypothetical scenario). I don't have the facts concerning Nevarra rulership, so I'm honestly not certain what's involved in having someone actually claim the throne. I did point out that there were rumors about the throne to Nevarra needing a new ruler since the current King is already an old man, as well as the fact that most speculation concerned Cassandra since she is a member of the Pentaghast family, and the current King of Nevarra is Markus Pentaghast. Depending on who the new protagonist is, it could be possible.

[quote]In Exile wrote...

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

I already addressed the rumors about the throne for Nevarra being a possibility, which is the point (although the rumors tend to focus on Cassandra as a canidate instead of the protagonist, given her family name). Similar to the Cousland Warden becoming the King-Consort or the Queen. Again, it's entirely hypothetical, but I suppose it would be one way to make sense of the "human only" limitation of the new protagonist. [/quote]

Political instability in Nevarra is very differnet from an autocratic mage empire in Neverra. An Amell couldn't become King of Ferelden. [/quote]

We don't even know who the new protagonist will be, so it's not quite the same thing.

[Asdrubael Vect]

LobselVith8 wrote...
I suggested a mage protagonist taking the Nevarra throne, which is no different than Alistair or Anora claiming the throne of Ferelden (except the obvious fact that the new ruler would be a mage in this hypothetical scenario). I don't have the facts concerning Nevarra rulership, so I'm honestly not certain what's involved in having someone actually claim the throne. I did point out that there were rumors about the throne to Nevarra needing a new ruler since the current King is already an old man, as well as the fact that most speculation concerned Cassandra since she is a member of the Pentaghast family, and the current King of Nevarra is Markus Pentaghast. Depending on who the new protagonist is, it could be possible."

Mages can't be nobles and have lands only because of Orlais Chantry laws, so you can understand that most of Thedas do not care, especially now .

Nevarra(who hates orlais) is different county who ruled by dragonhunters-reavers dynasty and Mortalitaxi, those groups who use blood magic rituals(Nevarra even have one of Pentagast kings who lived very long(no less than ~150), so he can be apostage mage or powerfull reaver, or he use Mortalitaxi blood magic help to live long like Baroness did)....the royal Pentagast family(Cassandra if i am not mistaken is just from Pentaghast clan not royal family members of Pentagast clan) have a very big chances to have mage ruler without protag

even in Ferelden(who also have bad relationship with Orlais) Alistrer(ex-templar who have reaver and taint blood in his veins) kids in 75% would be only mages(they will not if he would have dwarf wife, but they may become like sandal)

Anora cant have any kids...and if she or Alister would die so the next who would be on Ferelden throne is son of Eamon - Connor or Rowan-mage girl(if Connor was not saved and send to Tevinter, and be killed)

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 06 juin 2013 - 02:15 .

[TK514]

LobselVith8 wrote...

We don't know how long the war will last, but I'm sure the mages and templars are committed to their goal, so I doubt it'll be short. I don't doubt the war could involve the kingdoms where the war is taking place, in one form or another. And I'm thinking that having Orlais sitting between an independent Dales and possibly two pro-mage kingdoms (Ferelden and Nevarra via hypothetical mage ruler filling the vaccum of power) they would be less inclined to declare an Exalted March against the elves or the mages.

It can't drag out too long.  If the Mages want victory, they have to end the war as quickly as possible.  They have to take almost immediate, aggresive offensive action and win, or their chances of victory go way down.  The mages can not afford to get caught in a protracted campaign, much less a seige situation.  Every mage that dies requires an accident of birth and then generally over a decade of waiting and training to replace.  By contrast, the Templars can bolster their losses with anyone who can run forward and swing a sword.  Their troops don't even need to have Templar training to fight.  Templar powers give them an edge in survival, certainly, but aren't required.

Now, if the Mages are willing to summon an army of demons to fight for them, that changes things, but at that point they've basically lost the rest of Thedas, including the Elves and Qunari (not that the Qunari would ever support a mage state to begin with, so no loss there), as far as support goes.  Not even the generally magic tolerant Rivaini or Nevarrans think tearing open the Veil and summoning hordes of demons is the right thing to do, regardless of justification.  I doubt even modern day Tevinter would support such an act.  Hopefully, it won't come to that, but mages are only human, so sound judgement under pressure isn't exactly a common trait.  I expect if push comes to shove, someone like Adrian or Fiona would willingly and happily endanger the entire planet to take as many people with them as possible, innocent and Templar alike.  On the other hand, I would expect Anders/Vengeance to oppose such a course with every iota of violence he can bring to bear, assuming he's still alive.

Modifié par TK514, 06 juin 2013 - 04:09 .

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Rassler wrote...

Velanna Will Solve Everything

WRONG! Dubstep solves everything.

Modifié par DinoSteve, 06 juin 2013 - 04:15 .

[LobselVith8]

TK514 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

We don't know how long the war will last, but I'm sure the mages and templars are committed to their goal, so I doubt it'll be short. I don't doubt the war could involve the kingdoms where the war is taking place, in one form or another. And I'm thinking that having Orlais sitting between an independent Dales and possibly two pro-mage kingdoms (Ferelden and Nevarra via hypothetical mage ruler filling the vaccum of power) they would be less inclined to declare an Exalted March against the elves or the mages. 

It can't drag out too long.  If the Mages want victory, they have to end the war as quickly as possible.  They have to take almost immediate, aggresive offensive action and win, or their chances of victory go way down.  The mages can not afford to get caught in a protracted campaign, much less a seige situation.  Every mage that dies requires an accident of birth and then generally over a decade of waiting and training to replace.  By contrast, the Templars can bolster their losses with anyone who can run forward and swing a sword.  Their troops don't even need to have Templar training to fight.  Templar powers give them an edge in survival, certainly, but aren't required.

Templars are also highly addicted to lyrium, and they cut ties with the organization that had a monopoly on lyrium (as far as the surface world is concerned). That gives them a substantial weakness, especially if the war goes on too long.

TK514 wrote...

Now, if the Mages are willing to summon an army of demons to fight for them, that changes things, but at that point they've basically lost the rest of Thedas, including the Elves and Qunari (not that the Qunari would ever support a mage state to begin with, so no loss there), as far as support goes.  Not even the generally magic tolerant Rivaini or Nevarrans think tearing open the Veil and summoning hordes of demons is the right thing to do, regardless of justification.  I doubt even modern day Tevinter would support such an act.  Hopefully, it won't come to that, but mages are only human, so sound judgement under pressure isn't exactly a common trait.  I expect if push comes to shove, someone like Adrian or Fiona would willingly and happily endanger the entire planet to take as many people with them as possible, innocent and Templar alike.  On the other hand, I would expect Anders/Vengeance to oppose such a course with every iota of violence he can bring to bear, assuming he's still alive. 

I think armies of armed and armored drug addicts running amok would certainly change things once the templars ran out of their lyrium supply.

[Thibax]

KEEPERS WILL BE THE FUTURE!

NATURE POWER! 

[RobRam10]

Thibax wrote...

KEEPERS WILL BE THE FUTURE!

NATURE POWER! 

pfff Nature power, bring me men and women, bring me steel, fire and mages and let's see the power of Nature.

[Thibax]

RobRam10 wrote...

Thibax wrote...

KEEPERS WILL BE THE FUTURE!

NATURE POWER! 

pfff Nature power, bring me men and women, bring me steel, fire and mages and let's see the power of Nature.

Without Nature, you would not even exist.
Nature is all. 

[TK514]

LobselVith8 wrote...

TK514 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

We don't know how long the war will last, but I'm sure the mages and templars are committed to their goal, so I doubt it'll be short. I don't doubt the war could involve the kingdoms where the war is taking place, in one form or another. And I'm thinking that having Orlais sitting between an independent Dales and possibly two pro-mage kingdoms (Ferelden and Nevarra via hypothetical mage ruler filling the vaccum of power) they would be less inclined to declare an Exalted March against the elves or the mages. 

It can't drag out too long.  If the Mages want victory, they have to end the war as quickly as possible.  They have to take almost immediate, aggresive offensive action and win, or their chances of victory go way down.  The mages can not afford to get caught in a protracted campaign, much less a seige situation.  Every mage that dies requires an accident of birth and then generally over a decade of waiting and training to replace.  By contrast, the Templars can bolster their losses with anyone who can run forward and swing a sword.  Their troops don't even need to have Templar training to fight.  Templar powers give them an edge in survival, certainly, but aren't required.

Templars are also highly addicted to lyrium, and they cut ties with the organization that had a monopoly on lyrium (as far as the surface world is concerned). That gives them a substantial weakness, especially if the war goes on too long.

TK514 wrote...

Now, if the Mages are willing to summon an army of demons to fight for them, that changes things, but at that point they've basically lost the rest of Thedas, including the Elves and Qunari (not that the Qunari would ever support a mage state to begin with, so no loss there), as far as support goes.  Not even the generally magic tolerant Rivaini or Nevarrans think tearing open the Veil and summoning hordes of demons is the right thing to do, regardless of justification.  I doubt even modern day Tevinter would support such an act.  Hopefully, it won't come to that, but mages are only human, so sound judgement under pressure isn't exactly a common trait.  I expect if push comes to shove, someone like Adrian or Fiona would willingly and happily endanger the entire planet to take as many people with them as possible, innocent and Templar alike.  On the other hand, I would expect Anders/Vengeance to oppose such a course with every iota of violence he can bring to bear, assuming he's still alive. 

I think armies of armed and armored drug addicts running amok would certainly change things once the templars ran out of their lyrium supply.

The point is, even if the Templars lose every Lyrium powered soldier to death or withdrawal, they can still replenish their forces using common men-at-arms, while Mages can't.  No matter what, a non-magical person will never be a Mage.

[Sagekat]

DinoSteve wrote...

Why couldn't they have equality while living along side humans.

Because the maker won't return until the chant of light is sung from every corner.Allowing another religeon to be practiced goes against the maker and the chantry. Even if the Goverment of Orlais and possibly Fereldan allows or designates an elf society you will still have religeous bigots who would band together to rid themselves of what they would see as a threat to their faith and society. Heck, the chantry itself would need to do something about it, they have before.

As for Velanna, she is one character I wouldn't mind getting the Ander's treatment. Complete personality overhall. She was one cranky lady, even her people left her. She doesn't have a leader's charisma to band her people together, she alone doesn't have the power to power a tree army to run out the humans and secure the borders. Even if she gathered all the elven mages dalish and flat ear willing to join the cause you still have to take into account the human mages. Andrastean human mages. You are talking about a war or equality, but the war would ultimately be a religeous war and the Chantry has the numbers and resources. Templar war or no, you would get enough mages who would show up out of obligation to their faith.

Don't get me wrong, I fully support and wish for an elven country.  The way Thedas was set up it is unlikely to happen any time soon, certainly not in the Dragon Age or whatever age comes after.