224 réponses à ce sujet

[KaiserShep]

Eryri wrote...
But a device that spouts ill-defined magic, cobbled together from spare parts by people who didn't completely understand it's function, apparently is? 

Yeah, that's gritty realism right there.

To be fair, this kind of thing has been done before. In Contact, a device is built without fully understanding it, just because its plans were sent down by extraterrestrials. 

From what I heard in the story, it's generally understood that the device is clearly designed to dispense a lot of energy. Regardless of how vague the thing is written into the story, it seems to me that, in principle, the device itself is assumed to be a simple means of firing something potent enough to disable or destroy the reapers, and that it's only flaw is that it's not fully understood how it would do so. This isn't exactly something we're unfamiliar with in real life with both technology and medicine. I won't pretend that suspension of disbelief isn't challenged in all this, but I wouldn't chalk it up to silly hokum that makes no sense whatsoever either. I'll always maintain that the incorporation of a device to repurpose the relay network against the reapers is one of ME3's stronger elements. 

[David7204]

The Crucible is a very serious problem, and I've yet to see anyone on the BSN point out one of the two reasons why. The first reason is obvious - it's contrived. It was very poorly introduced, poorly explained, and poorly executed. The second reason is perhaps more serious but also more subtle.

Modifié par David7204, 05 juin 2013 - 06:14 .

[MegaSovereign]

David7204 wrote...

The Crucible is a very serious problem, and I've yet to see anyone on the BSN point out one of the two reasons why. The first reason is obvious - it's contrived. It was very poorly introduced, poorly explained, and poorly executed. The second reason is perhaps more serious but also more subtle.

And you're just waiting for someone to ask you what the second reason is.

[David7204]

Yep.

[Nerevar-as]

David7204 wrote...

The Crucible is a very serious problem, and I've yet to see anyone on the BSN point out one of the two reasons why. The first reason is obvious - it's contrived. It was very poorly introduced, poorly explained, and poorly executed. The second reason is perhaps more serious but also more subtle.

Those are 3 reasons. But what´s your second?

Mine would be how the hell every cycle kept adding things to it, considering they didn´t even now WTF it did. At the end we can even add the T-Reaper damaged remains, along with some other things. One would say we were trying a cooking recipe instead of betting all advanced life on the galaxy on it.

[MegaSovereign]

David7204 wrote...

Yep.

I'll bite, what is it?

[Kel Riever]

Auld Wulf wrote...

@OP

Insulting post with tons of headcannon stated as fact......

THERE'S the other shoe!....

Modifié par Kel Riever, 05 juin 2013 - 06:21 .

[David7204]

The fact that the Crucible adds nothing meaningful to the story.

It's only purpose is to check the box of 'Solution to the Reapers.' It adds absolutely nothing else. It has no meaningful themes, motifs, or merit attached to it. It's as bare-bones as it can be.

Compare to that the eponymous Deathly Hallows of Harry Potter, which carry a theme of resisting vs. accepting death, a theme of the series. Or the Ring in Lord of the Rings, which carries a theme of corruption.

The solution to the central conflict needs to validate the core themes of the story.

Modifié par David7204, 05 juin 2013 - 06:22 .

[AlanC9]

KaiserShep wrote...
To be fair, this kind of thing has been done before. In Contact, a device is built without fully understanding it, just because its plans were sent down by extraterrestrials. . 

In Skylark DuQuesne, E.E. "Doc" Smith had the plans for the war-winning device literally conjured up by some psychics in a kind of seance.  I'm glad he lost the Hugo to Dune that year, though it's one of his better books.

[Sebby]

David7204 wrote...

The fact that the Crucible adds nothing meaningful to the story.

It's only purpose is to check the box of 'Solution to the Reapers.' It adds absolutely nothing else. It has no meaningful themes, motifs, or merit attached to it. It's as bare-bones as it can be.

Another Lazarus Project in other words.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I love this place. It is one of the toxic waste dumps of the internet.

@OP -- FWIW, the rage over the endings has died down. It's been almost a year since the extended cut came out and sugar coated the original ending. 99% of the anti-enders have left or were banned.

The only reason I'm here is because I'm working on MEHEM, and waiting to see what BW does with DA3, and to troll the pro-Geth/anti-Quarian crowd. Someone has to stand up for the Quarians. And someone needs to keep Wulfie on a leash. Plus I find Wulfie's arguments funny. They're my facepalm moment of the day.

A lot of us don't buy a lot of games. And with the always online requirement and no used games in the next gen XBoxes we'll be buying even less. I'm going back to the PC or PS4. I'm not sure. I'm going to need a processor upgrade for PC gaming soon the way things keep moving. Plus I like to sit on the sofa. I sit in this chair long enough composing music. I don't really like sitting in it longer to play games.

So basically play ME3 until you lock your romance, meet Tali and Legion, play the Citadel DLC in its entirety, then put the game away. Don't even bother finishing the Rannoch story arc. Don't even bother finishing the game. It isn't worth it unless you have the MEHEM installed on a PC. The ending to the game breaks everything IMO. I'm dreading the next installment in the MEU.

[The Heretic of Time]

Seboist wrote...

David7204 wrote...

The fact that the Crucible adds nothing meaningful to the story.

It's only purpose is to check the box of 'Solution to the Reapers.' It adds absolutely nothing else. It has no meaningful themes, motifs, or merit attached to it. It's as bare-bones as it can be.

Another Lazarus Project in other words.

Jep, seems like it.

[David7204]

Hardly. Lazarus adds a great deal of meaningful content to the story.

[The Heretic of Time]

David7204 wrote...

Hardly. Lazarus adds a great deal of meaningful content to the story.

Such as?

[AlanC9]

Nerevar-as wrote...

Mine would be how the hell every cycle kept adding things to it, considering they didn´t even now WTF it did. At the end we can even add the T-Reaper damaged remains, along with some other things. One would say we were trying a cooking recipe instead of betting all advanced life on the galaxy on it.

You sure the previous cycles didn't know? I always figured that was in the part of the data TIM grabbed at the beginning of the game.

[Dextro Milk]

David7204 wrote...

Hardly. Lazarus adds a great deal of meaningful content to the story.

Haha, not really...

[MegaSovereign]

David7204 wrote...

The fact that the Crucible adds nothing meaningful to the story.

It's only purpose is to check the box of 'Solution to the Reapers.' It adds absolutely nothing else. It has no meaningful themes, motifs, or merit attached to it. It's as bare-bones as it can be.

Compare to that the eponymous Deathly Hallows of Harry Potter, which carry a theme of resisting vs. accepting death, a theme of the series. Or the Ring in Lord of the Rings, which carries a theme of corruption.

The solution to the central conflict needs to validate the core themes of the story.

The Crucible is a poorly executed plot device. However, one thing I really like about it is how it's revealed to be the combined resistance of multiple cycles.

So, in a sense, I disagree. I think a bigger problem is the fact that the Crucible doesn't really validate Shepard's efforts. Or that before ME3, the "solution" was Shepard's exceptionalism.....Now it's the collected efforts of the many. It's not necessarily bad but the shift is jarring to say the least.

[David7204]

Such as the separation and eventually reunion of the original crew. Such as pretty much all of Liara's content in LotSB, widely considered the best DLC. Such as Shepard leaving the Alliance working with Cerberus, which leads to the introduction to the ME 2 crew.

[Dextro Milk]

David7204 wrote...

Such as the separation and eventually reunion of the original crew. Such as pretty much all of Liara's content in LotSB, widely considered the best DLC. Such as Shepard leaving the Alliance working with Cerberus, which leads to the introduction to the ME 2 crew.

All of which could be done without Shepard dying.

[David7204]

MegaSovereign wrote...

The Crucible is a poorly executed plot device. However, one thing I really like about it is how it's revealed to be the combined resistance of multiple cycles.

So, in a sense, I disagree. I think a bigger problem is the fact that the Crucible doesn't really validate Shepard's efforts. Or that before ME3, the "solution" was Shepard's exceptionalism.....Now it's the collected efforts of the many. It's not necessarily bad but the shift is jarring to say the least.

Not good enough.

It can't be just a 'blow up the Reapers' weapon. That's just too shallow.

[Sebby]

Dextro Milk wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Hardly. Lazarus adds a great deal of meaningful content to the story.

Haha, not really...

Yeah, I love all the self-reflection Shepard dealt with in regards to being dead for years and brought back or how we witnessed the great impact such an incredible medical breakthrough had on society.

Totally deep sci-fi stuff on the level of "Gattaca".

[David7204]

Dextro Milk wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Such as the separation and eventually reunion of the original crew. Such as pretty much all of Liara's content in LotSB, widely considered the best DLC. Such as Shepard leaving the Alliance working with Cerberus, which leads to the introduction to the ME 2 crew.

All of which could be done without Shepard dying.

No, I don't think it could.

I've seen all the ideas. Shepard being in a coma, being stranded, there being no time skip at all...they all suck.

[Dextro Milk]

David7204 wrote...

I've seen all the ideas. Shepard being in a coma, being stranded, there being no time skip at all...they all suck.

Not nearly as much as Shepard dying and being brought back from the dead.

[David7204]

Seboist wrote...

Yeah, I love all the self-reflection Shepard dealt with in regards to being dead for years and brought back or how we witnessed the great impact such an incredible medical breakthrough had on society.

Totally deep sci-fi stuff on the level of "Gattaca".

Ridiculous.

First of all, Shepard sees and does a great deal of incredible things. Do we have three hours of conversation for each one? No. That would be absurd. And it would be completely awful writing.

The question is not whether the conversations happen. The question is whether the storyteller shows them to the viewer.

As to your second part, there wouldn't be much of an impact. Contrary to what some people have claimed, Lazarus is nothing remotely close to a 'cure for being dead.'

Modifié par David7204, 05 juin 2013 - 06:37 .