224 réponses à ce sujet

[David7204]

Dextro Milk wrote...

David7204 wrote...

I've seen all the ideas. Shepard being in a coma, being stranded, there being no time skip at all...they all suck.

Not nearly as much as Shepard dying and being brought back from the dead.

And why does it suck, exactly?

Modifié par David7204, 05 juin 2013 - 06:34 .

[Nerevar-as]

David7204 wrote...

The fact that the Crucible adds nothing meaningful to the story.

It's only purpose is to check the box of 'Solution to the Reapers.' It adds absolutely nothing else. It has no meaningful themes, motifs, or merit attached to it. It's as bare-bones as it can be.

Compare to that the eponymous Deathly Hallows of Harry Potter, which carry a theme of resisting vs. accepting death, a theme of the series. Or the Ring in Lord of the Rings, which carries a theme of corruption.

The solution to the central conflict needs to validate the core themes of the story.

I wouldn´t say that. Green ending can be taken as"different beings can´t cohexist unless they are turned into the same thing". That specifically goes against the "overcoming differences against a common threat" the game had sported up to that moment.

So it´s even worse.

[David7204]

Nerevar-as wrote...

I wouldn´t say that. Green ending can be taken as"different beings can´t cohexist unless they are turned into the same thing". That specifically goes against the "overcoming differences against a common threat" the game had sported up to that moment.

So it´s even worse.

And Synthesis is hated by a considerable amount of players, including myself, although for different reasons...you're proving my point.

Modifié par David7204, 05 juin 2013 - 06:36 .

[Dextro Milk]

David7204 wrote...

Dextro Milk wrote...

David7204 wrote...

I've seen all the ideas. Shepard being in a coma, being stranded, there being no time skip at all...they all suck.

Not nearly as much as Shepard dying and being brought back from the dead.

And why does it suck, exactly?

Is that all you do? "WHy, Tellllll ME why!!!"?

You tell me "WHY" Shepard being alive "Sux".

[David7204]

The burden of proof is on you. Do you know what burden of proof is?

[Dextro Milk]

David7204 wrote...

The burden of proof is on you. Do you know what burden of proof is?

Burden of proof... In a video game? What is this, I don't...

Okay, Shepard being dead for two years and then brought back to life nearly broke immersion because of how impossible it is. Do you understand that, or would you like me to talk in smaller words?

[David7204]

Why would that be at all impossible? The body is just a very complex machine. I see absolutely reason why an organization with immense resources and expertise couldn't restore function to Shepard's brain and body 170 years in the future.

Modifié par David7204, 05 juin 2013 - 06:42 .

[IntelligentME3Fanboy]

another copy and paste thread

[Dextro Milk]

David7204 wrote...

Why would that be at all impossible? The body is just a very complex machine. I see absolutely reason why an organization with immense resources and expertise couldn't restore function to Shepard's brain and body 170 years in the future.

Now you are going to argue this instead of answering me.

Why is Shepard being alive "omg suxz tooooo bad"?

[David7204]

Because it forfeits a lot of great content in ME 2 and some in ME 3.

The kiss in Lair of the Shadow Broker is my favorite moment in all of fiction. It wouldn't have been the same at all if Shepard hadn't died.

Modifié par David7204, 05 juin 2013 - 06:47 .

[Dextro Milk]

IntelligentME3Fanboy wrote...

another copy and paste thread

Maybe a "Got Milk?" picture to spice it up?

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Plus the Crucible makes Hackett, our fearless leader, look like a complete idiot. "We can't defeat the reapers without it." We don't know if it will even work, so... how do we know we can't defeat the reapers without it? We're sinking every galactic resource into it.

Each cycle added to it, but each cycle didn't know WTF it did. They were making stew and adding a new ingredient, yet no one ever completed it or used it?

We found parts for it scattered all over the galaxy. This I found quite interesting. It was an easter egg hunt. Yet Glowboy said they thought the design was destroyed several cycles ago. But the Protheans tried to build one. Didn't they know? Clearly organics are more resourceful than they realized.

Clearly the reapers and Glowboy are dumber than we knew, but then they were programmed by the Leviathans who were definitely not the sharpest knives in the drawer and winners of the first Galactic Darwin Award.

The shift to the efforts of the many away from the focus on Shepard's exceptionalism doesn't bother me as much as the stupidity and contrivance of the device itself. I'd rather see movement away from Shepard being a Mary Sue in the story than addition of contrived means of victory, but that would require the raising of the bar for the rest of the team and the other factions, and Shepard would not be this super human. Still a leader, but not a super human super hero. I don't know. Maybe I don't have a big enough ego to have to be the super hero. Maybe I'm okay with leading a team and being part of the team and giving credit to the team for the win.

But the schlock that was thrown at us in this installment, along with the last one plotwise? Ugh. I'm dreading the next one.

[Dextro Milk]

David7204 wrote...

Because it forfeits a lot of great content in ME 2 and some in ME 3.

The kiss in Lair of the Shadow Broker is my favorite moment in all of fiction. It wouldn't have been the same at all if Shepard hadn't died.

Uh, yeah, the kiss with Liara could have happened.

Where is all this "great" content you keep talking about? 

[Nerevar-as]

David7204 wrote...

Why would that be at all impossible? The body is just a very complex machine. I see absolutely reason why an organization with immense resources and expertise couldn't restore function to Shepard's brain and body 170 years in the future.

Memories. I can believe everything else can be repaired, and the brain´s "hardware", so to speak, but the memories? Would be close to acceptable by quick freezing, but Shepard died from lack of oxigen  and was around for quite long before being recovered.

And completely ignoring what it would mean for a person in a universe where dead is considered to be final is a complete waste. They just thought of a cheap shock for a few months of marketing.

[David7204]

The kiss isn't just a kiss. It's a triumph of love and heroism over misery, hardship, and fear. But you can't overcome a conflict if there's no conflict to overcome.

Modifié par David7204, 05 juin 2013 - 06:51 .

[Dextro Milk]

David7204 wrote...

The kiss isn't just a kiss. It's a triumph of love and heroism over misery, hardship, and fear. But you can't overcome a conflict if there's conflict to overcome.

So, you must die and come back in order to overcome conflict? 

And lol@Heroism

[Ravensword]

ZOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMG!!!! It's the Grand Champion and he's here w/ me!

[David7204]

Yes, heroism. The heroism of Shepard in defeating the Shadow Broker. That's what it is.

The more challenging the conflict, the more triumphant the victory. And having the person you're in love with die sounds to me about as challenging as it gets.

[Dextro Milk]

David7204 wrote...

And having the person you're in love with die sounds to me about as challenging as it gets.

Pretty challenging? Sure.

Nonsensical? Yes.

[David7204]

Nerevar-as wrote...

Memories. I can believe everything else can be repaired, and the brain´s "hardware", so to speak, but the memories? Would be close to acceptable by quick freezing, but Shepard died from lack of oxigen  and was around for quite long before being recovered.

And completely ignoring what it would mean for a person in a universe where dead is considered to be final is a complete waste. They just thought of a cheap shock for a few months of marketing.

Everything is hardware if you zoom in far enough.

The brain is robust. There have been people with bullets or metal spikes in their head who have retained their memories. Brain cells die.

Nor do I see Shepard as obligated to angst about it. S/he has an established personality of focusing on the moment and taking things as they come. Is Shepard obligated to continually gush about saving the galaxy? 

Modifié par David7204, 05 juin 2013 - 06:59 .

[Dextro Milk]

Ravensword wrote...

ZOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMG!!!! It's the Grand Champion and he's here w/ me!

Indeed...

[David7204]

Dextro Milk wrote...

David7204 wrote...

And having the person you're in love with die sounds to me about as challenging as it gets.

Pretty challenging? Sure.

Nonsensical? Yes.

So now we're right back to what I said.

Why would that be at all impossible? The body is just a very complex machine. I see absolutely reason why an organization with immense resources and expertise couldn't restore function to Shepard's brain and body 170 years in the future.

Modifié par David7204, 05 juin 2013 - 07:00 .

[Dextro Milk]

David7204 wrote...

So I guess you would have no problems dying today and having your remains frozen until they bring you back?

[CronoDragoon]

David7204 wrote...

The fact that the Crucible adds nothing meaningful to the story.

It's only purpose is to check the box of 'Solution to the Reapers.' It adds absolutely nothing else. It has no meaningful themes, motifs, or merit attached to it. It's as bare-bones as it can be.

You haven't thought about it enough, then. The Crucible represents the collected effort of not just this cycle but all cycles previous. The Crucible validates their efforts and saves them from the label of "struggles in futility." It is much more meaningful in a story about diversity and hope for all cycles to contribute to the end of the Reapers instead of just this one. The Crucible turns the death of the previous cycles into a sacrifice whereas previously it would merely have been defeat.

P.S. I like the Lazarus Project. I love the way it shook up the world of Mass Effect characters, and each reunion with each character was great to witness. It also provided a meaningful way to have Cerberus ingratiate itself with Shepard, thereby introducing some nuance into what was previously a pretty black and white story. For all the complaining about Cerberus in ME3, in my book it was a compelling wrinkle to the story and provided an interesting rival in TIM.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 05 juin 2013 - 07:05 .

[David7204]

If you'd like to imagine that ''your' Shepard cries in his or her cabin every night over the trauma of being brought back to life, you're perfectly free to do that. Nothing's stopping you.

Storytellers do not show every single conversation in the lives of the characters. You only show content that adds to the story.

Modifié par David7204, 05 juin 2013 - 07:06 .