130 réponses à ce sujet

[Mykel54]

This is something that has been bothering me for some time, and after researching it i have no found any real answers.

First, a recap of the known events. Anders was an apostate who fled the templars and ended up in Amaranthine, there, he was conscripted by the wardens (either the player, or a npc), adopted a homeless cat, and met Justice in Kristoff´s body. After the darkspawn assault, he either fled again (died in the game) or he stayed with the wardens (survived in the game).

After the player warden or npc warden left, a new warden commander took over. This warden allowed Rolan, a former templar, to join the wardens. This was apparently a compromise between the chantry and the wardens because they did not trust Anders. In the end, they were right, because Anders was convinced to become a willing host by Justice, thus becoming an abomination.

When the wardens found out, they brought the templars to capture him, and while fleeing Anders ended up killing several templars and wardens. Among them was Rolan, which was a grey warden by then. All right, so the question that arise is the following:

Anders claims in DA2 that he is fleeing the wardens, supposedly because they want him back. Yet when he meets Stroud in the deep roads/the qunari attack, or in the legacy dlc, they show no intention at all in capturing him. Duncan killed Jory because he was not allowed to turn back on being a warden, he knew too much. How is that Anders is not a threat to keeping the warden´s secrets, well, secret?

If Anders "died" in awakening, it could make some sense as a reason why he managed to evade the wardens, because they though he was dead. Accepting this however breaks the continuity of the story, as he must have merged with justice in a different way, and dislike the wardens for different reasons other than being ****s and forcing him to give up his cat.

I fail how Ander´s story can be explained in the context of what we know about the wardens. I just find hard to believe that they would allow him to get away with:
- murder of rolan and other wardens
- betraying the wardens and going rogue
- breaking the warden neutrality and attacking chantry agents (templars)
- allowing himself to become an abomination and thus threatening the warden´s relations with the authorities

He does all these things, and yet when one warden that knows him (Stroud) meets Anders, he never accuse him of anything just saying "i thought you were done fighting darkspawn".

Modifié par Mykel54, 05 juin 2013 - 04:24 .

[RandomSyhn]

I wondered about this seeing as I never had to actually run away from wardens to keep my healer. Also I feel that my warden commander would personally come after the man to bring his ass in.

[schalafi]

The thing is, in almost any game you can nitpick about things that don't make sense to you. I try to play games in the present and not go back to find answers, because it's too frustrating. So I take Anders in DA2 as being totally different than he was in Awakening.

[NorwegianPirate]

Stroud and Anders seem like they're buddies - or at least Stroud seems like he owes Anders a lot. And when the Qunari attacked, the Wardens had their hands full with More Important Things. The Wardens are a small group with a lot of More Important Things on their plate, after all - they might not have had the resources required to go hunt after every rogue warden out there, and after so long Anders was probably not even close to a priority. Jory was an easy target because he was literally within stabbing distance.

[Reznore57]

Could be a lot of reasons...
Anders flee to another country , probably with its own independant cells of wardens...
So fereldan may not have spread the news .

Maybe they looked for him , found out he was curing refugees and just decide to not bother.

Etc ,The wardens are not a very powerful order anymore...remember when you had to fight a blight?
Yeah they were only TWO wardens.
Besides they took Oghren ...I mean if that doesn't smell like desperation...

They may not have the manpower to hunt rogue warden.

[thats1evildude]

Once Anders becomes possessed, he falls under the category of "Not our f**king problem anymore" for the Wardens. It's for the templars to throw the lives of their own away on trying to capture or kill him.

Also, every time you encounter other Wardens in the game, they're on "other business," such as that mysterious mission during Act 2.

[DatOneFanboy]

im aware that something much important will be going on, like duh eh uh circles going rogue, I doubt Grey wardens have time to hunt an apostate/ex warden/ Demon Spirit Thang

Modifié par DatOneFanboy, 05 juin 2013 - 04:51 .

[Fallstar]

He is no longer a member of the Wardens. Leaving Anders alone is a win-win for the Wardens; he either loses control of his relationship with Justice and is hunted/killed by the Templars (not the Wardens' problem), or he gains control over it and becomes a very potent weapon if they ever need to call on him again. And they can use it to coerce him into fighting for them.

[erilben]

thats1evildude wrote...

Once Anders becomes possessed, he falls under the category of "Not our f**king problem anymore" for the Wardens. It's for the templars to throw the lives of their own away on trying to capture or kill him.

Also, every time you encounter other Wardens in the game, they're on "other business," such as that mysterious mission during Act 2.

None of that explain why Stroud and Nathaniel do not show any concern at all when they meet up with a murderous abomination. Nathaniel is even happy to see the guy who killed his friends.

[Fallstar]

I don't quite remember, but does Anders show any hint of being an abomination to Stroud or Nathaniel anyway?

[Wulfram]

I don't think the events of the short story really fit with what we see in the game, so I tend to assume it's not canon.

edit:  And yeah, the Wardens shouldn't be assumed to know all there is to know about Anders

Modifié par Wulfram, 05 juin 2013 - 05:07 .

[erilben]

DuskWarden wrote...

I don't quite remember, but does Anders show any hint of being an abomination to Stroud or Nathaniel anyway?

The Anders short story has Wardens agreeing with the templars that they can't have an abomination in the Wardens, so they send some Wardens after him. Anders kills them. It doesn't make any sense that Nathaniel wouldn't know about that.

[NorwegianPirate]

DuskWarden wrote...

I don't quite remember, but does Anders show any hint of being an abomination to Stroud or Nathaniel anyway?

Nathaniel definitely knows, since he say that he had hoped Justice would be the dominant personality. As for Stroud, it's hard to say. That depends if anyone besides Rolan and his group of wardens knew of Anders' little misadventure. If no one did, as far as anyone knows, an abomination showed up and killed a bunch of wardens, a spirit vanished and Anders ran away.

[thats1evildude]

erilben wrote...

None of that explain why Stroud and Nathaniel do not show any concern at all when they meet up with a murderous abomination. Nathaniel is even happy to see the guy who killed his friends.

As I said, they're on other business. You don't encounter Stroud in the middle of a leisurely stroll through the park; he's in the middle of the Deep Roads, on a mission of his own. Likewise, Nathaniel is on his own and in the middle of the Deep Roads.

You also assume that Nathaniel is aware of the circumstances around Anders' departure — the Grey Wardens love keeping secrets, even from their own — and that if he did know, he would actually disagree with Anders' decision to be a host for Justice. Nathaniel himself once suggested to Justice that he consider taking on a living host, so I think he's less adverse to the idea than you may believe.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 05 juin 2013 - 09:50 .

[Lavaeolus]

If you take the sibling to Stroud to be Wardenised, Stroud mentions how, after this, "they're even". Evidentally Stroud owes Anders for something, so not taking him in would be part of however he's paying him back. Maker knows what Anders actually did for him.

Nathaniel is a "friend" of Anders, moreorless. They served together in Amaranthine, after all, and that's where they both became Wardens. There was a lot of bonding involved when defeating the Mother (and the Architect, depending on your view and choice), no doubt.

Alistair probably doesn't even know who Anders is -- at least, not at first glance -- unless he saw the bloke in Awakening, which only happens if he's king.

Though, to be honest, that short story has always been a weird fit for me. Anders mentions he ran from the Wardens, and that they took away his cat; you'd think it'd be mentioned about he killed a bunch of them.

Modifié par Mr Maniac, 05 juin 2013 - 05:45 .

[Harle Cerulean]

Mr Maniac wrote...

If you take the sibling to Stroud to be Wardenised, Stroud mentions how, after this, "they're even". Evidentally Stroud owes Anders for something, so not taking him in would be part of however he's paying him back. Maker knows what Anders actually did for him.

Nathaniel is a "friend" of Anders, moreorless. They served together in Amaranthine, after all, and that's where they both became Wardens. There was a lot of bonding involved when defeating the Mother (and the Architect, depending on your view and choice), no doubt.

Alistair probably doesn't even know who Anders is -- at least, not at first glance -- unless he saw the bloke in Awakening, which only happens if he's king.

Though, to be honest, that short story has always been a weird fit for me. Anders mentions he ran from the Wardens, and that they took away his cat; you'd think it'd be mentioned about he killed a bunch of them.

Your only source for this information would be Anders himself; of course he's not going to tell you he and Justice went full-on abomination and slaughtered a bunch of Wardens.     He wants you to trust him, not see him for what he is.

[The_FenixV]

Wardens recruit blood mages, thieves, murderers heck they could even recruit a rapist if he showed good fighting skills. Wardens have never been noble, they'll do what they need to do no matter the cost, so I don't see why they would persecute Anders, they really wouldn't care about him.

[BouncyFrag]

I just figured they were as sick of him as I was.

[Lulupab]

Also you Judge Anders based on destroying the chantry. Before that he was the only mage that fought the Templars with noble intentions and ways other than blood magic. He become like abomination later in act 3 and it was quite obvious anyway. He is very playful and jokes a lot especially with Varric in act 1 and 2. In act 3 he is bitter to everyone except Hawke and only if he is romanced. He actually tells everyone to shut up in act 3.

[Hazegurl]

I laughed when Anders mention something about the Wardens trying to bring him back. Like they would really waste money, time, and resources on him.

[Mykel54]

Thanks everybody for your insight, it has helped a lot. I have to admit that this was very poorly explained in the game, but after reading your opinions and some thinking on my own, i think it could work. I am taking Mr Maniac reasoning as the main guide to explain the situation.

Nathaniel not reporting him, because they are friends and Anders is superficially not dangerous (he is not your typical crazy abomination). I think bioware went this route with him and the other wardens. Consider that when Anders meets a warden, it is always under "special and unique" circumstances:

-Anders meets a unknown warden (alistair, janeka, etc.) so they do nothing because they don´t know who he is and what he did. At most, they could sense he is another grey warden, but not recognise him unless they were at Amaranthine.

-Anders meets Nathaniel, which is his friend so he would not report him, plus in DAA he wasn´t totally agaisnt the idea of Justice inside a body. Nathaniel may see that Anders is not crazy (he is not your obvious abomination on rampage, even if he is possesed), and think that he is not a threat, so no need to report his friend.

- Anders meets Stroud, who conveniently seems to owe him a lot, practically making him another friend. So much that he is willing to recruit the hawke sibling, but also to ignore that he has seen Anders, for similar reasons that Nathaniel: he doesn´t look like an abominaton, so he is no threat.

I think what the game missed was several warden npcs that were infact looking for him, they are mentioned in dialogue (Anders says so) but not ingame as npcs. There must be many grey wardens asking questions about where Anders went after Amaranthine, it is just that apparently no one realised he was in Kirkwall in several years. So they didn´t found him and he had time for blowing the chantry and all that.

I don´t think it is a coincidence that all the wardens that Anders meets in the game are in his pocket. All the warden that Anders can meet either don´t know about him, or are his buddies and are not going to report him. I can imagine Stroud/Nathaniel being sympathetic to Anders, and feeling that the templars forced the issue and that Anders wasn´t really at fault (they are friends, so they should give the benefit of the doubt).

Regardless, i have to agree that this situation was poorly handled, and that the short story information should have been included in the main game, even if it was as a codex entry for Anders and the other wardens, something to explain better what was going between them.

[archangel1996]

Apart from the fact that there are obviously two Anders (and two Sandal), i can't see how/why my Warden Commander wouldn't seek Anders after he merged with Justice

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Who cares hes dead.

[Chiramu]

They have blood mages in the Warden ranks, I don't think the Wardens would persecute someone over what Anders did. They do "whatever it takes" to stop the Blight, a quote Alistair himself forgot when it came to recruit Loghain.