146 réponses à ce sujet

[Dave of Canada]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Well, there go all my third Theirin theories.

Still isn't gone. We still have the fact that Loghain knew of the child, Goldanna was informed of Alistair and how Eamon was the one who raised him.

There's another thing or two I'm missing...

[Chiramu]

LPPrince wrote...

I TOLD people Alistair was a half-elf, but naaaah

I'm just gonna grin over here

Fiona and Maric's thing is too late for it to conceive Alistair, and also it takes 9 months for a baby to be born once concieved if he is Fiona's son then he would have to be born as they make love for it to work with the rest of the story. 

[ShadowLordXII]

Chiramu wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

I TOLD people Alistair was a half-elf, but naaaah

I'm just gonna grin over here

Fiona and Maric's thing is too late for it to conceive Alistair, and also it takes 9 months for a baby to be born once concieved if he is Fiona's son then he would have to be born as they make love for it to work with the rest of the story. 

Give or take a year for Alistair's actual birth and it still fits.  Besides, why would Duncan be keeping such a close eye on Alistair and never tell him about the "third Therin?"  He told Alistair about Goldanna after all...

[Stella-Arc]

What boggles my mind is that Duncan's idea of watching over Alistair is to recruit him into the Grey Wardens. Alistiar could have died during the joining and even though he lived, his life is short, especially due to a Blight. Also, because he is tainted, it will be difficult for him to have an heir. The Therin bloodline will die with him.

Modifié par Stella-Arc, 05 juin 2013 - 10:34 .

[IanPolaris]

Stella-Arc wrote...

What boggles my mind is that Duncan's idea of watching over Alistair is to recruit him into the Grey Wardens. Alistiar could have died during the joining and even though he lived, his life is short, especially due to a Blight. Also, because he is tainted, it will be difficult for him to have an heir. The Therin bloodline will die with him.

I don't think anyone at the time (Duncan included) even in their darkest dreams ever thought that Alistair would be the last Therin heir.

-Polaris

[Stella-Arc]

IanPolaris wrote...

Stella-Arc wrote...

What boggles my mind is that Duncan's idea of watching over Alistair is to recruit him into the Grey Wardens. Alistiar could have died during the joining and even though he lived, his life is short, especially due to a Blight. Also, because he is tainted, it will be difficult for him to have an heir. The Therin bloodline will die with him.

I don't think anyone at the time (Duncan included) even in their darkest dreams ever thought that Alistair would be the last Therin heir.

-Polaris

It was still a risk. For any Monarch, it is prudent to have the "heir" and a "spare". While Alistair was unexpected, Maric still disppeared long before Alsiatir was recruited. Before the start of Origins, Alistair was only in the Grey Wardens for six months. Rumors were already circulating that there wouldn't be an heir between Cailan and Anora and thus, Duncan should have at least put two and two together. Whatever the case, recruiting Alistair into the Grey Wardens is the opposite of taking care of someone. Maybe Duncan didn't think Alistair would be the last Therin but his decision was still reckless. The Grey Wardens is an organization that battles the darkspawn continously and they are tainted, doomed (besides Fiona) to die young (or crazy). 

Modifié par Stella-Arc, 06 juin 2013 - 01:57 .

[leighzard]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Well, there go all my third Theirin theories.

Nah, it's still totally possible that Maric boned some other chick we don't know about yet.  Or Cailan could have an illegitimate child out there.  Anora did allude to the politcal nature of her marriage and implied that she wasn't a stranger to some of its less savory aspects.  It's still a possibility that there's another Theirin out there in Thedas if Alistair is dead in your version, but the blood of dragons thing from the comics comes into play in-game.

And now I can go back to confidently believing that Fiona is Alistair's mom.

Also....
"Page 177: The “First Warden” is the leader of the Grey Wardens at Weisshaupt. The glossary incorrectly states that he is the “Commander of the Grey.” I’m not sure what my peer was drinking when he wrote this one."
Ahahaha! Fantastic.

Modifié par leborum, 06 juin 2013 - 02:17 .

[Examurai]

Is Anora fertile?
I don't know where I heard it from, I think is was from in-game, but I think someone stated she can't conceive a child.

[RobRam10]

Examurai1 wrote...

Is Anora fertile?
I don't know where I heard it from, I think is was from in-game, but I think someone stated she can't conceive a child.

Most likely since Eamon wrote Cailan about looking for another wife and Cailan had intended to step her aside for Celene and also in Awakening Loghain tells you that she gave him a "look" when asked about an heir.

Modifié par RobRam10, 06 juin 2013 - 03:04 .

[PlasmaCheese]

I took Corypheus's statement as meaning he *expected* the Golden City to be golden, but it turned black when they got there. Not that it already was. I think what he said was vague enough to mean either or.

/Shrug

[LPPrince]

I wonder why people are against Alistair being Fiona's kid so much.

Is it the half-elfiness?

[valkulon]

Maric mentions Alistair's mother being here in his Fade dream in "Until We Sleep", but no longer in the real world. Fiona is very much alive at the end of Asunder. So either Maric is confirming that Alistair's mother was a maid who died in child birth or he's continuing the lie to protect him from being discriminated against for being elven blooded.

Or there is still some errors concerning all of Maric's sons, be it either he has 3 or 2.

[Harle Cerulean]

Valhart wrote...

Maric mentions Alistair's mother being here in his Fade dream in "Until We Sleep", but no longer in the real world. Fiona is very much alive at the end of Asunder. So either Maric is confirming that Alistair's mother was a maid who died in child birth or he's continuing the lie to protect him from being discriminated against for being elven blooded.

Or there is still some errors concerning all of Maric's sons, be it either he has 3 or 2.

Seeing someone in the Fade doesn't mean they're dead, especially when they're a mage.  The Fade is shaped by thoughts and memories, and demons and spirits can take the forms of people as well.  Alistair saw Goldanna in that Fade; do you think we spoke to her animated corpse later? 

Maric interpreting it as 'the people I see must be dead' is hardly any sort of confirmation that Alistair's mother is dead.  He could very easily be wrong.

[addiction21]

LPPrince wrote...

I wonder why people are against Alistair being Fiona's kid so much.

Is it the half-elfiness?

I think you are trying to read too much into a few posts. They are not "against it" just questioning it.

[Harle Cerulean]

LPPrince wrote...

I wonder why people are against Alistair being Fiona's kid so much.

Is it the half-elfiness?

I expect it depends on the person.  Overall, probably a combination of that, of "But my Alibear would NEVER lie to me!" (even though Alistair doesn't know the truth himself in the case of his mother being Fiona), and of "I REFUSE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE BOOKS CAN COEXIST WITH THE GAMES AND THEREFORE IT MUST BE A DIFFERENT CHILD BECAUSE WHAT IS SAID IN THE GAME IS MORE REAL THAN ANYTHING ELSE AND IS ALWAYS RIGHT."

[LPPrince]

Well, it hasn't been outright stated yet, just heavily implied(HEAVILY heavily implied) so we should probably leave it at that.

[TK514]

LPPrince wrote...

I wonder why people are against Alistair being Fiona's kid so much.

Is it the half-elfiness?

Personally?  It's just pushing my 'too much special snowflake' button.  He was already potentially King, Hero, Grey Warden, Templar powers without the downside, who could step into his duty and become a beloved monarch.  Now he's also half-elf, dragonblooded, super best friends with one third of the Qunari Triumverate, and who knows what else.

I think Templar/Grey Warden/Hero who could rise above his personal shortcomings and accept a throne he didn't want pretty much filled the meter for me.

My other propblem is that Fiona pushes that exact same button, only about 100x harder, which taints Alistair by association.  She's an elf,  a Grey Warden that got rid of the taint, a mage who, surprise surpise, pulled off the exact same trick as the Hero of Ferelden by saving everyone from a Sloth Demon in the Fade (assuming you don't read it as she was outright possessed and got better), was BFFs with Maric, Riordan, and Duncan, knew about the Architect before the Hero of Ferelden/Warden-Commander, hobnobbed with the First Warden, decided she wanted to go back the the Circle and get elected to the highest position a person can hold in the Circle, then started a war.  She's basically "I can do everything the Hero of Ferelden can do, only more and better".

By comparison, Maric, who only freed his nation from tyrannical occupation with the help of some extremely talented and loyal friends, and who apparently has dragon blood, seems positively pedestrian.

[Plaintiff]

I haven't found any information about the year Alistair was born, but if he was born in the same year as the events of The Calling, that's still circumstantial evidence at best.

I have to agree with TK514. I like Alistair a lot, but there's only so much speshul that a character is allowed to be before I start rolling my eyes.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 06 juin 2013 - 04:14 .

[valkulon]

Harle Cerulean wrote...

Valhart wrote...

Maric mentions Alistair's mother being here in his Fade dream in "Until We Sleep", but no longer in the real world. Fiona is very much alive at the end of Asunder. So either Maric is confirming that Alistair's mother was a maid who died in child birth or he's continuing the lie to protect him from being discriminated against for being elven blooded.

Or there is still some errors concerning all of Maric's sons, be it either he has 3 or 2.

Seeing someone in the Fade doesn't mean they're dead, especially when they're a mage.  The Fade is shaped by thoughts and memories, and demons and spirits can take the forms of people as well.  Alistair saw Goldanna in that Fade; do you think we spoke to her animated corpse later? 

Maric interpreting it as 'the people I see must be dead' is hardly any sort of confirmation that Alistair's mother is dead.  He could very easily be wrong.

Yes, I know this actually. I should have included the full quote from Maric which is "I had a life. The people I love are all HERE --Cailin, your mother, Loghan... None of them are in the real world any longer are they?". There is only one person he can actually know for certain is dead if you follow DA:O storyline of Alistair's mother was a maid who died in child birth. He can guess at Cailin being dead since Alistair is King and probably Loghan because he probably thinks Loghan would die before allowing Cailin to die. (That last part about Loghan is pure speculation on my part)

This is why I brought up the idea he could be contining the lie that his mother died in child birth, or he could be confirming the fact for us readers that Alistair is not Fiona's child, or the writers are still casting ambiguity on the whole thing. or the Lore is wrong.

[leighzard]

Plaintiff wrote...

I haven't found any information about the year Alistair was born, but if he was born in the same year as the events of The Calling, that's still circumstantial evidence at best.

Alistair was born in 9:10 Dragon.  The World of Thedas timeline has the events of The Calling taking place at 9:14 Dragon, but the errata list corrects that to also 9:10.  So no it's not definitive proof, but it's a real possibility again.

Edit:

Valhart wrote...

Yes, I know this actually. I should have included the full quote from Maric which is "I had a life. The people I love are all HERE --Cailin, your mother, Loghan... None of them are in the real world any longer are they?". There is only one person he can actually know for certain is dead if you follow DA:O storyline of Alistair's mother was a maid who died in child birth. He can guess at Cailin being dead since Alistair is King and probably Loghan because he probably thinks Loghan would die before allowing Cailin to die. (That last part about Loghan is pure speculation on my part)

This is why I brought up the idea he could be contining the lie that his mother died in child birth, or he could be confirming the fact for us readers that Alistair is not Fiona's child, or the writers are still casting ambiguity on the whole thing. or the Lore is wrong.

Or Maric is maintaining the ruse that Alistair's mother was Goldanna for the benefit of Alistair and the fine nation of Ferelden.  I doubt an elf-blooded human would be a popular choice for ruler. 

Modifié par leborum, 06 juin 2013 - 04:20 .

[Harle Cerulean]

RobRam10 wrote...

Examurai1 wrote...

Is Anora fertile?
I don't know where I heard it from, I think is was from in-game, but I think someone stated she can't conceive a child.

Most likely since Eamon wrote Cailan about looking for another wife and Cailan had intended to step her aside for Celene and also in Awakening Loghain tells you that she gave him a "look" when asked about an heir.

Of course, Anora says that Cailan was sleeping with other women, and as far as we know, there are no bastards.  It's entirely possible Cailan was at fault for the lack of children.  Just because a couple don't manage to conceive, that doesn't make it automatically the woman's fault, you know.  As for the "look?"  Seriously, Anora's husband just died only about a year ago, and she was under huge pressure to have a kid with him, which is very stressful.  Do you think maybe the "look" was about "Don't you ****ing start this with me again oh my god I will stab you I don't care if you are my father."

God knows I give my mom that look whenever she goes on about grandbabies!

[valkulon]

leborum wrote...

Edit:

Valhart wrote...

Yes, I know this actually. I should have included the full quote from Maric which is "I had a life. The people I love are all HERE --Cailin, your mother, Loghan... None of them are in the real world any longer are they?". There is only one person he can actually know for certain is dead if you follow DA:O storyline of Alistair's mother was a maid who died in child birth. He can guess at Cailin being dead since Alistair is King and probably Loghan because he probably thinks Loghan would die before allowing Cailin to die. (That last part about Loghan is pure speculation on my part)

This is why I brought up the idea he could be contining the lie that his mother died in child birth, or he could be confirming the fact for us readers that Alistair is not Fiona's child, or the writers are still casting ambiguity on the whole thing. or the Lore is wrong.

Or Maric is maintaining the ruse that Alistair's mother was Goldanna for the benefit of Alistair and the fine nation of Ferelden.  I doubt an elf-blooded human would be a popular choice for ruler. 

I mentioned this already in both posts. Also Goldanna is his "Sister". 

Modifié par Valhart, 06 juin 2013 - 04:24 .

[leighzard]

Valhart wrote..
I mentioned this already in both posts. Also Goldanna is his "Sister". 

Oh, sorry.  It's late here.  I must be tired.

[Stella-Arc]

TK514 wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

I wonder why people are against Alistair being Fiona's kid so much.

Is it the half-elfiness?

Personally?  It's just pushing my 'too much special snowflake' button.  He was already potentially King, Hero, Grey Warden, Templar powers without the downside, who could step into his duty and become a beloved monarch.  Now he's also half-elf, dragonblooded, super best friends with one third of the Qunari Triumverate, and who knows what else.

I think Templar/Grey Warden/Hero who could rise above his personal shortcomings and accept a throne he didn't want pretty much filled the meter for me.

My other propblem is that Fiona pushes that exact same button, only about 100x harder, which taints Alistair by association.  She's an elf,  a Grey Warden that got rid of the taint, a mage who, surprise surpise, pulled off the exact same trick as the Hero of Ferelden by saving everyone from a Sloth Demon in the Fade (assuming you don't read it as she was outright possessed and got better), was BFFs with Maric, Riordan, and Duncan, knew about the Architect before the Hero of Ferelden/Warden-Commander, hobnobbed with the First Warden, decided she wanted to go back the the Circle and get elected to the highest position a person can hold in the Circle, then started a war.  She's basically "I can do everything the Hero of Ferelden can do, only more and better".

By comparison, Maric, who only freed his nation from tyrannical occupation with the help of some extremely talented and loyal friends, and who apparently has dragon blood, seems positively pedestrian.

All of this.

After reading Until We Sleep and seeing the corrections made to The World of Thedas about the date of the Calling, I feel like ripping my hair out. The whole thing with Alistair is like eating sweets; just enough and it will satisfy you but anymore and you'll get sick from all the sweetness. The sweetness being how "spechul" Alistair is. Despit it all, I will accept it. Not much I can do about it but roll my eyes and move on. 

[valkulon]

leborum wrote...

Valhart wrote..
I mentioned this already in both posts. Also Goldanna is his "Sister". 

Oh, sorry.  It's late here.  I must be tired.

haha, np. I figured it was something like that since you mentioned Goldanna being his mother. Just poking the bear so to speak though in good fun.

I personally don't care if Alistair is Fiona's kid or not, but I also don't think there is enough evidence to say for certain that Fiona is his mother. Especially with what Maric says in Until We Sleep.