1081 réponses à ce sujet

[Asdrubael Vect]

Hazegurl wrote...


A templar who has lost his loved one in a mage rebellion. But later its revealed that the loved one if his child who was a mage. So he's conflicted between his duties as a Templar and grief stricken at the lost of his child. Although I don't want it to be a Thrask thing where his solution is automatically side with mages. I would want more conflict with the character. Perhaps his child weren't killed by Templars but by Mages. Like the mages rebelled, his child stepped forward to protect his father and was killed. It could show how a mage supporting Templar who was working on the inside because of his son or daughter could then be conflicted by the entire ordeal because of his loss.

this is not make sense for many reasons, and still this will not change situation with Templar Order

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 08 juin 2013 - 06:17 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Dark Korsar wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...


A templar who has lost his loved one in a mage rebellion. But later its revealed that the loved one if his child who was a mage. So he's conflicted between his duties as a Templar and grief stricken at the lost of his child. Although I don't want it to be a Thrask thing where his solution is automatically side with mages. I would want more conflict with the character. Perhaps his child weren't killed by Templars but by Mages. Like the mages rebelled, his child stepped forward to protect his father and was killed. It could show how a mage supporting Templar who was working on the inside because of his son or daughter could then be conflicted by the entire ordeal because of his loss.

this is not make sense for many reasons, and still this will not change situation with Templar Order

I don't think anyone here is asking to change that situation. Lotion just seems to want it driven home that the Templars are human with human emotions, fears and desires, and I think I see where he's coming from.

And I think Hazegurl's idea is a good one, in that it also paints the mages as less monolithic.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 08 juin 2013 - 06:39 .

[Asdrubael Vect]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

I don't think anyone here is asking to change that situation. Lotion just seems to want it driven home that the Templars are human with human emotions, fears and desires, and I think I see where he's coming from.

And I think Hazegurl's idea is a good one, in that it also paints the mages as less monolithic.

1)so all this bull**** is just for showing some more "good peoples" who still serve in Templars Order and not leave it when the war started?

do you even understand that this is not make sense when entire order mission is inprison, tranquil or kill all mages what they can find, especially now when the war started?

this no more "good peoples" in Order, the only  "good peoples" what they have is some religios fanatics who considerate themselfs as good peoples and who think that they doing "right things", but they are not....they would be the same "good peoples" as Meredit or those peoples who kill Qunari ambassadors

2)we already see "bad" and "good" peoples of all sides in DA 1-2, books and comics so nothing will change if they showing some more good or bad Templrars in DA 3

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 08 juin 2013 - 07:07 .

[Dave of Canada]

*dp*

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 08 juin 2013 - 07:03 .

[Dave of Canada]

Dark Korsar wrote...

do you even understand that this is not make sense when entire order mission is inprison, tranquil or kill all mages what they can find?

I hope you seriously don't think this.

Like, I can't believe someone can be this delusional.

Edit: Actually, never mind. I've seen other people dismissing facts because it ignores their headcanon.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 08 juin 2013 - 07:03 .

[Asdrubael Vect]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Dark Korsar wrote...

do you even understand that this is not make sense when entire order mission is inprison, tranquil or kill all mages what they can find?

I hope you seriously don't think this.

Like, I can't believe someone can be this delusional.

Edit: Actually, never mind. I've seen other people dismissing facts because it ignores their headcanon.

....ok, so please tell me what part of what i wrote is wrong?

[Dave of Canada]

Dark Korsar wrote...
....ok, so please tell me what part of what i wrote is wrong?

That because they do those things--which might not even be "wrong" from other perspectives--there can be no good people in the Templar Order.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Dark Korsar wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

TK514 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

sandellniklas wrote...

Fact still remains that mages in Thedas are dangerous. Plain and simple. Potentially or for certain, mages carry within them the power to level cities and destroy populations. Leaving a potential powderkeg like that unchecked and unpoliced just isn't a good idea, especially when the human factor leaves so much room for people to make bad choices. I can almost guarantee you that is how most people in Thedas (and probably many mages as well) feel about the circle issue.

Most people in the Andrastian kingdoms, you mean.

The Qunari say hello. 

Give the Dalish, the Chasind, the Avvar, and the Rivaini my regards.

and...Tevinter, Fog Warriors, Nevarra, Grey Wardens(Anderdfels), thousands of Old God worchipers(who are in every kingdom of Thedas), Dwarves

The Anderfels and Nevarra are Andrastian nations and would probably support the Chantry. Dwarves can't do magic and thus don't even really need to worry about the problem. The Cult of the Old Gods is essentially extinct, especially since 5 out of 7 of them are now dead archdemons. We know nothing about For Warriors that would say what their postion on mages is.

And the templars certainly have room for good people in their ranks after the war has begun. I'm sure lots of people see the mage revolution as incredibly dangerous, or that the chaos is worth stopping. And probably more people will want to stop it as it turns more and more violent.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 08 juin 2013 - 07:53 .

[dragonflight288]

billy the squid wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

Sutamina wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
At this point, stepping down from power.

could you come up with something far more persuasive please

Let me try.

ahem.

*snip*

Was that more persuasive?

Sorry I missed that, I was distracted by the manipulation and aggressive attacks by certain factions within the Circle their inability to control their own people, violent uprising despite the Divine being a sympathiser and Wynne trying to work with the Chantry, leading to the Templars seeing the Chantry as defunct and incapable of maintaining order and moving to re establish order by force.

Let alone the inherrent risk posed by Mages moving in and out of free society. I can't wait until one wants to enter politics and is discovered to have been practicing blood magic in a move to assert political dominance, vindicating everything the Templars have moved to prevent. Especially given the catalogue of disasters which have been attributed to a single mage, even under tutilage, which results in an escalating body count.

And more often than not, many of the rogue mage elements have been driven to desperation by the templars, and if they are criminals then they shall be treated as criminals. And if they turn abomination, we know from Connor that if the deal was made of their own volition then that also means the connection between the mage and the demon can be severed, and if they're full-blown abomination then they need to be killed.

But take real life social experiments, particularly the Stanford Prison Experiment, and you get a realistic view of what the Circle system produces. Give one group ALL the power and don't provide much oversight or punishment when that power is abusd, then they will ultimately abuse it, and the prisoners will turn inward, rebel, or become what they have been treated as. Treat a mage as a beast, and you shouldn't be surprised if that mage starts acting like a beast, and if you treat them as an abomination that's going to happen, regardless of their life experiences, personality, or control over their power, and do this to enough of them, it will be no surprise if you drive many of them into becoming abominations.

The circle system is almost identacle (adding in fictional elements) as the Stanford Prison Experiment, so while you may see mages becoming abominations and certain fraternities being unable to control their own and the danger of blood magic, I see an entire demographic treated as little more than dirt because of something they were born with, are oppressed their whole lives over, and many of them end up becoming exactly as they had been treated by the templars and the Chantry.

Remove the oppression, but keep a force of templars to deal with the criminal element of mages, and you'll have a much better system.

For those who don't know about the Stanford Prison Experiment, here's a link.

news.stanford.edu/pr/97/970108prisonexp.html

[Asdrubael Vect]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Dark Korsar wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

TK514 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

sandellniklas wrote...

Fact still remains that mages in Thedas are dangerous. Plain and simple. Potentially or for certain, mages carry within them the power to level cities and destroy populations. Leaving a potential powderkeg like that unchecked and unpoliced just isn't a good idea, especially when the human factor leaves so much room for people to make bad choices. I can almost guarantee you that is how most people in Thedas (and probably many mages as well) feel about the circle issue.

Most people in the Andrastian kingdoms, you mean.

The Qunari say hello. 

Give the Dalish, the Chasind, the Avvar, and the Rivaini my regards.

and...Tevinter, Fog Warriors, Nevarra, Grey Wardens(Anderdfels), thousands of Old God worchipers(who are in every kingdom of Thedas), Dwarves

The Anderfels and Nevarra are Andrastian nations and would probably support the Chantry. Dwarves can't do magic and thus don't even really need to worry about the problem. The Cult of the Old Gods is essentially extinct, especially since 5 out of 7 of them are now dead archdemons. We know nothing about For Warriors that would say what their postion on mages is.

And the templars certainly have room for good people in their ranks after the war has begun. I'm sure lots of people see the mage revolution as incredibly dangerous, or chaos worth stopping. And probably more people will want to stop it as it turns more and more violent.

1)Anderfels ruled by Grey Wardens(who are nothing without mages) so they never support Orlais Chantry
2)Nevarra ruled by reavers dynasty and Mortixilari and they hate Orlais so they will not support Orlais Chantry
3)Dwarves still deal with mages and have alliance with Tevinter, and as we see they not give them to Chantry when Circle was created in Orzammar....so this easily can be their fight because mages can always offer them much more
4) death of Archdeamons does not affect on their existence and not all of them worchip to only 7 dragons

as we know Templar Order have members only of those ONLY HUMANS groups:

1)orphans of any kind(with all non-mages childrens of circle mages) who was specially raised by Chantry 
2)very religios poor or some noble peoples or their childrens who was send to Order 
3)poor peoples who need home, food, money for themselfs(remember brothel) or their familys 
4)mostly poor peoples who was victims of  demons or persecuted apostages 
5)those small part of peoples(in most cases they are not very religios, not nobles and not ritch) who have mages(beloved brother/sister/son/daughter) in their familys and decided to go to the Order to protect them

in most cases the only group of Templars who are normal peoples is only those small part of peoples who decided to go to Order because of their beloved mages family members.......and as you and many peoples clearly can understand those small part of peoples are run from Order, and most of them(especially if they mages family members was not killed by Templars) sided with Mages in this war

Templars now are officially renegades even for Orlais Chantry and without Chantry protection they are become more ex-Orlais terrorist forces in most part of Orlais and other Kingdoms(and most of them hate orlais and not so like Orlais Chantry)

so joining or not leaving from Templars Order after war started is make sense only for those people who ok with inprison, tranquil or kill all mages because this is no other peace between Templars and Mages

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 08 juin 2013 - 08:25 .

[Lulupab]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Dark Korsar wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

TK514 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

sandellniklas wrote...

Fact still remains that mages in Thedas are dangerous. Plain and simple. Potentially or for certain, mages carry within them the power to level cities and destroy populations. Leaving a potential powderkeg like that unchecked and unpoliced just isn't a good idea, especially when the human factor leaves so much room for people to make bad choices. I can almost guarantee you that is how most people in Thedas (and probably many mages as well) feel about the circle issue.

Most people in the Andrastian kingdoms, you mean.

The Qunari say hello. 

Give the Dalish, the Chasind, the Avvar, and the Rivaini my regards.

and...Tevinter, Fog Warriors, Nevarra, Grey Wardens(Anderdfels), thousands of Old God worchipers(who are in every kingdom of Thedas), Dwarves

The Anderfels and Nevarra are Andrastian nations and would probably support the Chantry. Dwarves can't do magic and thus don't even really need to worry about the problem. The Cult of the Old Gods is essentially extinct, especially since 5 out of 7 of them are now dead archdemons. We know nothing about For Warriors that would say what their postion on mages is.

And the templars certainly have room for good people in their ranks after the war has begun. I'm sure lots of people see the mage revolution as incredibly dangerous, or that the chaos is worth stopping. And probably more people will want to stop it as it turns more and more violent.

The templars especially the ones in full knight hood were paid royally by the chantry with money and lyrium. Its perfectly shown in DA2 that people with no job and money who can handle a sword join templars. Keran only became a templar to to takes care of his sister macha and begs hawke not to tell cullen of his involvement with forced possession just to keep his knight status and keep getting paid. Getting expelled from the order is least of his worries and he only thinks about the money he is paid.

Carver, hawke's brother doesn't want to be in his sibiling's shadow, and he really has no future either so he joins the Templars. Yet he always forsakes the order for his sibiling, as we have no option of killing Carver like we have Bethany, wondered why? Because bethany can never become a mundane and the only way is to kill her but Carver throws away his Templar status in a heatbeat and is no longer a mage hunter in matter of seconds. Also if Carver joins the grey wardens instead when he returns on act 3 and finds out Hawke has sided with Templars he shows bitter resentment and dissapointment and condems hawke for joing the Templars.

So no, many templars care only for benefits of the order and now that the chantry will no longer pay the templars with anythning and the order is no longer "holy" I doubt anyone other than extremists will join the order.

Also you assume all those who support the chantry will support the Templars as well. Nope, the chantry itself is not supporting the templars and has sent its seekers and agents to bring peace, not to hunt mages. The Templars are rouge now, don't forget it.

Modifié par Rassler, 08 juin 2013 - 08:11 .

[Jedi Master of Orion]

The Anderfels is the most devout Andrastian nation. The Grey Wardens don't rule there directly, and they don't have an exceptionally large population of mages. Just because Nevarra is a political enemy of the nation of Orlais doesn't mean they don't support the Chantry. Fereldens are also an enemy of Orlais but they also have a population that is fearful of mages.

Orzammar isn't allies with Tevinter anymore, the Imperium has crumbled. Tevinter is far to the north beyond any dwarven territory now. The dwarves do most of their business with the Chantry, such as the lyirum trade.

The religion of the Old Gods was mostly crippled after the First Blight when many temples were destroyed by angry disillusioned followers and then after Andraste's Exalted March the Imperium converted to worship of the Maker. It was a Tevinter religion, it wouldn't have a strong presence elsewhere in the world. And even less so when Dumat and then 4 more of the Old Gods tried to destroy humanity and were killed in the process.

Lots of different people joined the Templar Order, many of them probably decided to stick it through even after splitering from the Chantry. You don't have to be evil or sadistic to be dedicated.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 08 juin 2013 - 08:33 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...
Fereldens are also an enemy of Orlais but they also have a population that is fearful of mages.

And a king who seems sympathetic to them.

Orzammar isn't allies with Tevinter anymore, the Imperium has crumbled. Tevinter is far to the north beyond any dwarven territory now. The dwarves do most of their business with the Chantry, such as the lyirum trade.

Actually, I'm under the impression that the dwarves still have active embassies in Tevinter.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 08 juin 2013 - 08:38 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

BioWareMod01 wrote...

Hey everyone. Can we please play nice and keep things on topic?

THANK YOU!

Listen to the man.



* read a few posts *

<_<
Are we going in a loop? I see some same stuff siad. .. DOWN TO THE LAST LETER. Literary, someone copy-pasted their own stuff from earlier in the thread and is just repeating it ad nauseum.

Look, I know some of you think that one one who supports the templars can possibly be a good person and that the templar order and circles are EEEEVIL. We get it. But we don't care, because we think otherwise.

And no matter how many times you post, you won't change anyones minds. So enough about circles = bad and "you cannot have good tempalrs". If you think that then this thread is NOT for you.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Well, yeah Allister is sympathetic to mages but I thought the argument was about how "most people" see the mage problem. And even if they do have embassies in Tevinter I get the impression they still have a closer relationship with the Andrastian countries.

[billy the squid]

dragonflight288 wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

Sutamina wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
At this point, stepping down from power.

could you come up with something far more persuasive please

Let me try.

ahem.

*snip*

Was that more persuasive?

Sorry I missed that, I was distracted by the manipulation and aggressive attacks by certain factions within the Circle their inability to control their own people, violent uprising despite the Divine being a sympathiser and Wynne trying to work with the Chantry, leading to the Templars seeing the Chantry as defunct and incapable of maintaining order and moving to re establish order by force.

Let alone the inherrent risk posed by Mages moving in and out of free society. I can't wait until one wants to enter politics and is discovered to have been practicing blood magic in a move to assert political dominance, vindicating everything the Templars have moved to prevent. Especially given the catalogue of disasters which have been attributed to a single mage, even under tutilage, which results in an escalating body count.

And more often than not, many of the rogue mage elements have been driven to desperation by the templars, and if they are criminals then they shall be treated as criminals. And if they turn abomination, we know from Connor that if the deal was made of their own volition then that also means the connection between the mage and the demon can be severed, and if they're full-blown abomination then they need to be killed.

But take real life social experiments, particularly the Stanford Prison Experiment, and you get a realistic view of what the Circle system produces. Give one group ALL the power and don't provide much oversight or punishment when that power is abusd, then they will ultimately abuse it, and the prisoners will turn inward, rebel, or become what they have been treated as. Treat a mage as a beast, and you shouldn't be surprised if that mage starts acting like a beast, and if you treat them as an abomination that's going to happen, regardless of their life experiences, personality, or control over their power, and do this to enough of them, it will be no surprise if you drive many of them into becoming abominations.

The circle system is almost identacle (adding in fictional elements) as the Stanford Prison Experiment, so while you may see mages becoming abominations and certain fraternities being unable to control their own and the danger of blood magic, I see an entire demographic treated as little more than dirt because of something they were born with, are oppressed their whole lives over, and many of them end up becoming exactly as they had been treated by the templars and the Chantry.

Remove the oppression, but keep a force of templars to deal with the criminal element of mages, and you'll have a much better system.

For those who don't know about the Stanford Prison Experiment, here's a link.

news.stanford.edu/pr/97/970108prisonexp.html

Despiration? Like the entire faction who precipitated the current war by framing and murdering one of their own, when the Divine had intervined on their behalf and the other 3 factions had voted not to ceede from the Circle. That's not despirate, that's a coldly calculating manipulation of the situation to make their own personal power play. A quarter of the mages and their senior enchanters went along with that. 

We know from Connor that if a deal is made it's already too late for hundreds of people who end up dead, because of the actions of a single mage. And you want them to live anywhere they want, with no way to keep track of where they are scattered across Thedas? I can't see a problem coming down the line like a ton of bricks using that methodology. 

Making a deal with the demon, and then saving the boy, necessitated having a circle to call on in the first place. The practical logistics of having mages scattered aboput all of Thedas, is a recipie for disaster, given that the Templars cannot physically oversee every mage in Thedas, protect the Chantry, hunt maleficar, abominations in addition to their other duties.

I don't consider Meredith as the norm for all knight commanders, unless you, by that virtue, determine that all senior enchanters are the same as the libetarian faction and used murder, blood amgic and manipulation to force their wish on the 3/4 of mages who didn't want to ceed from the circle. So The Templars treated all them as beasts to did they? 3/4 of the mage population via their Senior enchanters suffered from Stockholm syndrom?

The circle is a practical necessity and a necessary evil to guard against the potential dangers. Wynne and a significant majority thought so. And if they were treated so horrifyingly bad, then why did they vote to stay? Perhaps they thought that trying to resolve the situation with a mage sympathetic Divine would be more effective that violently revolting, vindicating the Templar fear and leading to the right of annulment. How would a Templar tell a libertarian who is an apostate and maleficar  from a conservative mage when the Circles are broken and in open revolt.

Modifié par billy the squid, 08 juin 2013 - 08:44 .

[Dave of Canada]

Rassler wrote...

The templars especially the ones in full knight hood were paid royally by the chantry with money

I'd like to see evidence of Templar being paid "royally".

and lyrium.

Which is proven to give them powers, of course they'd be given lyrium. That's not really paying them, that's letting them do their job.

Its perfectly shown in DA2 that people with no job and money who can handle a sword join templars.

Provided they become disciplined in their training and learn from the education which they're provided, sure.

Keran only became a templar to to takes care of his sister macha and begs hawke not to tell cullen of his involvement with forced possession just to keep his knight status and keep getting paid. Getting expelled from the order is least of his worries and he only thinks about the money he is paid.

He's worried about losing his pay because he can't support his family without it, his father is an alcoholic and he's deep in debt if you expell him because his income becomes completely zero. 

In addition:

Messere Hawke,I wanted to thank you for helping my brother. I worry about what the templars will do to Keran, but it's what he wants. He is grateful that you defended him before Ser Cullen.Thank you, from both of us.
Macha

Carver, hawke's brother doesn't want to be in his sibiling's shadow, and he really has no future either so he joins the Templars.

He joins the Templar to spite Hawke after Hawke coddled him. How does this change anything?

Because bethany can never become a mundane and the only way is to kill her but Carver throws away his Templar status in a heatbeat and is no longer a mage hunter in matter of seconds.

Haha, oh wow. He doesn't "throw away his Templar status", not anymore than Cullen does. He fights against Hawke until he's forced to kill him/her, he stands up to Meredith's insanity with Cullen and defends his sibling. He still isn't any less Templar, he's got the training and is still addicted to lyrium and his feelings on mages aren't any different.

Also if Carver joins the grey wardens instead when he returns on act 3 and finds out Hawke has sided with Templars he shows bitter resentment and dissapointment and condems hawke for joing the Templars.

Did you ever do the conversation? He's more upset that you're siding with the Templar because you're a mage yourself.

So no, many templars care only for benefits of the order and now that the chantry will no longer pay the templars with anythning and the order is no longer "holy" I doubt anyone other than extremists will join the order.

This thread has truly convinced me that only selfish bastards, rapists and pedophiles join the Templar Order and the Chantry.

Also you assume all those who support the chantry will support the Templars as well. Nope, the chantry itself is not supporting the templars and has sent its seekers and agents to bring peace, not to hunt mages.

Chantry Order won't support the Templar or Mages but it's people and followers are likely to support the Templar over the mages.

[Asdrubael Vect]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

The Anderfels is the most devout Andrastian nation. The Grey Wardens don't rule there directly, and they don't have an exceptionally large population of mages. Just because Nevarra is a political enemy of the nation of Orlais doesn't mean they don't support the Chantry. Fereldens are also an enemy of Orlais but they also have a population that is fearful of mages.

Orzammar isn't allies with Tevinter anymore, the Imperium has crumbled. Tevinter is far to the north beyond any dwarven territory now. The dwarves do most of their business with the Chantry, such as the lyirum trade.

The religion of the Old Gods was mostly crippled after the First Blight when many temples were destroyed by angry disillusioned followers and then after Andraste's Exalted March the Imperium converted to worship of the Maker. It was a Tevinter religion, it wouldn't have a strong presence elsewhere in the world. And even less so when Dumat and then 4 more of the Old Gods tried to destroy humanity and were killed in the process.

Lots of different people joined the Templar Order, many of them probably decided to stick it through even after splitering from the Chantry. You don't have to be evil or sadistic to be dedicated.

1)Grey Wardens have and thats all, Andrefells would never go agains Wardens and Wardens will never support Chantry and Templars especially Templars may rather see them as enemy because of Fiona and Anders(i am not talking about our Mage Warden who may decided to free Ferelden circle)

2)if they will never support Orlais they will never support Orlais Chantry and Templars

3)Ferelden changes according to our Protag actions and yet they have Arl Eamon Connor or mage daughter(if you kill Connor) and they hate Orlais
4)ORLY??? they are and they still officially trade with Tevinter Empire:D

5)we still have a lot of Old God worchipers in every Thedas Kingdom

please be more realistic

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 08 juin 2013 - 08:53 .

[Dave of Canada]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

And a king who seems sympathetic to them.

It's unfortunate we don't see much about Ferelden, I'd like to know more about Anora's rule or how the nobility react to Alistair's opinions on touchy subjects. I mean, Alistair has influence but not enough to stop what apparently happened to the Dalish.

Would the same happen to mages? Is the same happening to mages? Does unhardened Alistair cower at the sight of someone who has a backbone? What's Anora's thoughts on the matter? How does solo-Anora change things?

Actually, I'm under the impression that the dwarves still have active embassies in Tevinter.

I recall reading such but can't find it, I think it's more of a remnant of older times though.

[Asdrubael Vect]

Dave of Canada wrote...

I recall reading such but can't find it, I think it's more of a remnant of older times though.

Tevinter has enjoyed a long and fruitful alliance with the dwarven empire. The lyrium trade is the primary reason for their close alliance, and the magic-centric Imperium is mainly dependent on Orzammar to meet its immense demand.Many surface dwarves live in the Imperium, not considered citizens but rather foreign dignitaries, even if their houses have existed in the Imperium for ages.
The Tevinter Imperium hosts numerous dwarven embassies, since the days of Archon Darinius and his alliance with the founding fathers of the dwarven empire, Orseck Garal and Endrin Stonehammer. There are dwarven embassies in every major city, much like dwarven settlements in other countries in Thedas. However Tevinter dwarves have their own branch of government, the Ambassadoria, unlike dwarves in other countries. Ambassadoria representatives are elected by the dwarves to advise the Archon and the Magisterium. The Ambassadoria is more of a lobbying group than a parliament.
Dwarven embassies in Minrathous, Neromenian, and Qarinus are entirely underground and are considered by dwarves to reside within the Stone, allowing those in the embassy to retain their caste. Some dwarves serving in Tevinter embassies never leave these underground fastnesses.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Dark Korsar wrote...

1)Grey Wardens have and thats all, Andrefells would never go agains Wardens and Wardens will never support Chantry and Templars especially Templars may rather see them as enemy because of Fiona and Anders(i am not talking about our Mage Warden who decided to free Ferelden circle)

"The Anders, too, are a people of extremes: The most devout priests and
the most deadly soldiers, the poorest nation in the world and the most
feared."  - Codex Entry: The Anderfels - dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_The_Anderfels

"Emperor Drakon is given the opportunity to expand northward. Instead, he
chooses to swing his armies west and relieve the siege of Weisshaupt in
1:33 Divine. The Grey Wardens are impressed enough to convert to the
worship of the Chantry, and together the Grey Wardens and Drakon save
the badly weakened nation of Anderfels from destruction, bringing it to a
devout worship of the Maker that continues to this day."  - dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Ages#Divine

Dark Korsar wrote...
2)if they will never support Orlais they will never support Orlais Chantry and Templars

3)Ferelden changes according to our Protag actions and yet they have Arl Eamon Connor or mage daughter(if you kill Connor) and they hate Orlais

What you seem to fail to realize is that being rivals of Orlais doesn't mean they are enemies of Andrastianism or that they hate the Chantry.

Dark Korsar wrote...
4)ORLY??? they are and they still officially trade with Tevinter Empire:D

I'm pretty sure the first game mentions that Orzammar trades lyrium exclusively with the Chantry.

Dark Korsar wrote...
5)we still have a lot of Old God worchipers in every Thedas Kingdom

please be more realistic

According to who?

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 08 juin 2013 - 09:05 .

[Insaner Robot]

Dark Korsar wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

I recall reading such but can't find it, I think it's more of a remnant of older times though.

Tevinter has enjoyed a long and fruitful alliance with the dwarven empire. The lyrium trade is the primary reason for their close alliance, and the magic-centric Imperium is mainly dependent on Orzammar to meet its immense demand.Many surface dwarves live in the Imperium, not considered citizens but rather foreign dignitaries, even if their houses have existed in the Imperium for ages.
The Tevinter Imperium hosts numerous dwarven embassies, since the days of Archon Darinius and his alliance with the founding fathers of the dwarven empire, Orseck Garal and Endrin Stonehammer. There are dwarven embassies in every major city, much like dwarven settlements in other countries in Thedas. However Tevinter dwarves have their own branch of government, the Ambassadoria, unlike dwarves in other countries. Ambassadoria representatives are elected by the dwarves to advise the Archon and the Magisterium. The Ambassadoria is more of a lobbying group than a parliament.
Dwarven embassies in Minrathous, Neromenian, and Qarinus are entirely underground and are considered by dwarves to reside within the Stone, allowing those in the embassy to retain their caste. Some dwarves serving in Tevinter embassies never leave these underground fastnesses.

That's Kal-Sharok not Orzammar.

[Asdrubael Vect]

Insaner Robot wrote...

Dark Korsar wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

I recall reading such but can't find it, I think it's more of a remnant of older times though.

Tevinter has enjoyed a long and fruitful alliance with the dwarven empire. The lyrium trade is the primary reason for their close alliance, and the magic-centric Imperium is mainly dependent on Orzammar to meet its immense demand.Many surface dwarves live in the Imperium, not considered citizens but rather foreign dignitaries, even if their houses have existed in the Imperium for ages.
The Tevinter Imperium hosts numerous dwarven embassies, since the days of Archon Darinius and his alliance with the founding fathers of the dwarven empire, Orseck Garal and Endrin Stonehammer. There are dwarven embassies in every major city, much like dwarven settlements in other countries in Thedas. However Tevinter dwarves have their own branch of government, the Ambassadoria, unlike dwarves in other countries. Ambassadoria representatives are elected by the dwarves to advise the Archon and the Magisterium. The Ambassadoria is more of a lobbying group than a parliament.
Dwarven embassies in Minrathous, Neromenian, and Qarinus are entirely underground and are considered by dwarves to reside within the Stone, allowing those in the embassy to retain their caste. Some dwarves serving in Tevinter embassies never leave these underground fastnesses.

That's Kal-Sharok not Orzammar.

nope they started trade with Kal-Sharok but after they trade with new dwarven capital Orzammar and their Ambassadoria, later was a first Blight and Kal-Sharok separeted from Orzammar and Tevinter still trade mostly with only Orzammar

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 08 juin 2013 - 09:20 .

[duckley]

 Such an interesting discussion!
The fact is that both mage and templar alike are people first. People can be good and people can be evil and anything in between . Both Templar and Mage alike are part of organizations. Organizations can be virtuous or corrupt and anything in between. 
Conner is a perfect example of why Mages can be dangerous and why some sort of training , education or support is needed. 
as a great believer in the separation of church and state I would love to see the people decide how to deal with  the risks inherent in being a mage and how to enable mages to become contributing members of society. 


Now onto solving world hunger!