1081 réponses à ce sujet

[Lotion Soronarr]

Qistina wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
He still can become and unstoppable abomination...and given the power he wields, he can become a horrific tyrant.
The danger didn't go away. It just changed adress.

But it have been proven otherwise isn't he?

Going to Tevinter didn't make him a bad bat**** insane and abominations like most Mages in Kirkwal

YET.
It's a constant danger, not a test you pass at a specific date and then onward you're allways free.

Of course, if he does go abomination in Tevinter it would be ....interesting.

[MisterJB]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
Yet. He has not become either, yet. Letting Feynriel go, is one of the most reckless and highly irresponsible actions Hawke can make, if you ask me.

Surely you don't mean that? What recklessness could there be in sending the most powerful and possession-prone mage in the world to the one place in Thedas specifically known for corrupting mages and where people summon demons to do their daily chores?

[Lotion Soronarr]

Xilizhra wrote...
Both of the first two were also wrong.

Were they?

Aslo, when someone is born with a serious mental disorder and is put in a mental institution that IS because of how he was born.

Quarantene is also  practiced all over the wrold, and again not because of someone behavior, but because of other factors...like being at the wrong place at the wrong time.

[Boycott Bioware]

YET.
It's a constant danger, not a test you pass at a specific date and then onward you're allways free.

Of course, if he does go abomination in Tevinter it would be ....interesting.

But he doesn't, he become confident on his ability and become more careful with demons and such things, that is the whole point, he will not fall to demons prey because he have confidence.

The objective of Harrowing is to make an apprentice confidence facing a demon and not fall. Fenriyel can do that without going to Harrowing, then there is no need for Harrowing.

Those who turn on Blood Magic are mostly Circle Mages, both in DA:O and DA2, why? Because of the condition and environment

Yet. He has not become either, yet. Letting Feynriel go, is one of the most reckless and highly irresponsible actions Hawke can make, if you ask me.

If there is no Hawke then what?

i. fenriyel could fail Harrowing because he live in fear and have no confidence
ii. the Circle could be too late to Tranquilize him
iii. Kirkwall is destroyed by an unstoppable abomination

Fenriyel is safe because of Hawke, if Hawke is not in Kirkwal...then Kirkwal is doomed. The Circle don't provide what he need, only Tevinter.

Modifié par Qistina, 10 juin 2013 - 01:24 .

[Xilizhra]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Both of the first two were also wrong.

Were they?

Aslo, when someone is born with a serious mental disorder and is put in a mental institution that IS because of how he was born.

Quarantene is also  practiced all over the wrold, and again not because of someone behavior, but because of other factors...like being at the wrong place at the wrong time.

No, it's because of their actions. Those with mental disorders who don't prove by their behavior to be dangers to anyone else aren't locked up. As for quarantine, either it's a temporary measure, or the quarantined one is going to die soon in any case and nothing can be done about it. Neither one is comparable to the Circle.

[Iakus]

Qistina wrote...

But he doesn't, he become confident on his ability and become more careful with demons and such things, that is the whole point, he will not fall to demons prey because he have confidence.

It takes more than confidence to reist the temptations of demons (see what happens to Hawke's companions, including Merrill, in Night Terrors)

Those who turn on Blood Magic are mostly Circle Mages, both in DA:O and DA2, why? Because of the condition and environment

Most of the mages we've met in DAO and DA2 were CIrcle mages anyway.  

You realize that virtually all mages in Tevinter are blood mages, right?  You can't advance without the power it provides.

Edit:  and for the record, I do send Feynriel to Tevinter.  It's a dangerous move, but I thinik he deserves every chance to live his life without being made Tranquil.

Modifié par iakus, 10 juin 2013 - 01:30 .

[Xilizhra]

It takes more than confidence to reist the temptations of demons (see what happens to Hawke's companions, including Merrill, in Night Terrors)

To resist mind control in a dreamer-powered Fade realm while consciously inside it, maybe.

[Boycott Bioware]

iakus wrote...
It takes more than confidence to reist the temptations of demons (see what happens to Hawke's companions, including Merrill, in Night Terrors)

Merill have no confidence actually, that is why she need Hawke, if you realize it. That is her character

And it is a game requirement that all Hawke companions will fall in that particular scene

Most of the mages we've met in DAO and DA2 were CIrcle mages anyway.

You realize that virtually all mages in Tevinter are blood mages, right? You can't advance without the power it provides.

Edit: and for the record, I do send Feynriel to Tevinter. It's a dangerous move, but I thinik he deserves every chance to live his life without being made Tranquil.

What i mean is, with all the things the Templars and Chantry did, they just failed, the system failed, they are not the solution because they create resistance, the system run based on prejudice. They do not provide answers or solution, they only provide judgment

The Mages that turn to Blood Mages in Broken Circle are Circle Mages who going through Harrowing. Uldred is senior Enchanter but he did consort to demon, so the Chantry just fail.

The Mages Hawke hunting in Act 3 are runaway from the Circle, in Act 1 Starhaven Mages are runaway from the Circle...most Blood Mages in the game are from the Circle. So we can question if the Circle really functional and their measures are effective?

Most Mages of Tevinter Imperium are Blood Mages, that maybe true, but yet we never see with our own eyes the daily routine in Tevinter. What we see in kirkwal and many other Chantry kingdom are the effect of the running system. Mages in Chantry Kingdom resort to Blood Magic and demonology is for resistance, to against the Templar and the system.

Maybe in the system that is run by Blood Mages themselves, everything is okay

Modifié par Qistina, 10 juin 2013 - 01:43 .

[Boycott Bioware]

continue..

It is like the computer, Operating System. DA2 cannot run in Window 95 I believe, correct me if i am wrong, because it is not suitable system. It cannot run at all. The game can run well in Window XP, better in Window 7. Just example, I maybe wrong. It is because the system support it, the game don't crash or becomes crappy.

Something funny will happen if we try to run latest software in old OS, it is because the system don't support it. The latest Anti-Virus can't run in older OS, your old computer will overrun by viruses and worms. So new software can only run well in new system that support it.

Similar with Mages, new Mages born everyday, the difference between Tevinter and any Chantry kingdom is Tevinter always updated their OS and Anti-Virus while Chantry kingdom stick to the old ones and then system crash they got blue screen

[Iakus]

Qistina wrote...

Merill have no confidence actually, that is why she need Hawke, if you realize it. That is her character

And it is a game requirement that all Hawke companions will fall in that particular scene

Merrill is supremely confident inher abilities, to the point of recklessness. 

But yes, it is a game requirement that your companions fall. But to me it just illustrates how dangerous demons are.  They know precisely what buttons to push, even to those normally on their guard (like Merrill and Fenris) and shows the dangers mages have to live with.

What i mean is, with all the things the Templars and Chantry did, they just failed, the system failed, they are not the solution because they create resistance, the system run based on prejudice. They do not provide answers or solution, they only provide judgment

The Mages that turn to Blood Mages in Broken Circle are Circle Mages who going through Harrowing. Uldred is senior Enchanter but he did consort to demon, so the Chantry just fail.

The Mages Hawke hunting in Act 3 are runaway from the Circle, in Act 1 Starhaven Mages are runaway from the Circle...most Blood Mages in the game are from the Circle. So we can question if the Circle really functional and their measures are effective?

Most Mages of Tevinter Imperium are Blood Mages, that maybe true, but yet we never see with our own eyes the daily routine in Tevinter. What we see in kirkwal and many other Chantry kingdom are the effect of the running system. Mages in Chantry Kingdom resort to Blood Magic and demonology is for resistance, to against the Templar and the system.

Maybe in the system that is run by Blood Mages themselves, everything is okay

I don't disagree the Circles failed. What I do say is the dangers which the Circles were founded to try and prevent are still very real.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Qistina wrote...

YET.
It's a constant danger, not a test you pass at a specific date and then onward you're allways free.

Of course, if he does go abomination in Tevinter it would be ....interesting.

But he doesn't, he become confident on his ability and become more careful with demons and such things, that is the whole point, he will not fall to demons prey because he have confidence.

The objective of Harrowing is to make an apprentice confidence facing a demon and not fall. Fenriyel can do that without going to Harrowing, then there is no need for Harrowing.

Those who turn on Blood Magic are mostly Circle Mages, both in DA:O and DA2, why? Because of the condition and environment

Yet. He has not become either, yet. Letting Feynriel go, is one of the most reckless and highly irresponsible actions Hawke can make, if you ask me.

If there is no Hawke then what?

i. fenriyel could fail Harrowing because he live in fear and have no confidence
ii. the Circle could be too late to Tranquilize him
iii. Kirkwall is destroyed by an unstoppable abomination

Fenriyel is safe because of Hawke, if Hawke is not in Kirkwal...then Kirkwal is doomed. The Circle don't provide what he need, only Tevinter.

I didnt say that Hawke should have invollved himself. I said that Hawke should enver let Feynriel go. He should tranquilize him, or force him to stay in the Circle, and then hope that the Circle actually have what he needs.

[Uccio]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Qistina wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
He still can become and unstoppable abomination...and given the power he wields, he can become a horrific tyrant.
The danger didn't go away. It just changed adress.

But it have been proven otherwise isn't he?

Going to Tevinter didn't make him a bad bat**** insane and abominations like most Mages in Kirkwal

Yet. He has not become either, yet. Letting Feynriel go, is one of the most reckless and highly irresponsible actions Hawke can make, if you ask me.

Best thing about it is that Tevinter can use him to further their goals in reconquering Thedas. No Templar nor "divine" can resist him in their sleep.

Modifié par Ukki, 10 juin 2013 - 02:36 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

Ukki wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Qistina wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
He still can become and unstoppable abomination...and given the power he wields, he can become a horrific tyrant.
The danger didn't go away. It just changed adress.

But it have been proven otherwise isn't he?

Going to Tevinter didn't make him a bad bat**** insane and abominations like most Mages in Kirkwal

Yet. He has not become either, yet. Letting Feynriel go, is one of the most reckless and highly irresponsible actions Hawke can make, if you ask me.

Best thing about it is that Tevinter can use him to further their goals in reconquering Thedas. No Templar nor "divine" can resist him in their sleep.

Beg pardon while I leap for joy.

[Dave of Canada]

Ukki wrote...

Best thing about it is that Tevinter can use him to further their goals in reconquering Thedas. No Templar nor "divine" can resist him in their sleep.

Don't forget that we've seen what dreamers can hope to accomplish in the recent comic when given enough power. Templar or Divine? Bah, who cares. Let's rewrite civilization! Mold reality as you see fit.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 10 juin 2013 - 03:33 .

[Asdrubael Vect]

Ukki wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Qistina wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
He still can become and unstoppable abomination...and given the power he wields, he can become a horrific tyrant.
The danger didn't go away. It just changed adress.

But it have been proven otherwise isn't he?

Going to Tevinter didn't make him a bad bat**** insane and abominations like most Mages in Kirkwal

Yet. He has not become either, yet. Letting Feynriel go, is one of the most reckless and highly irresponsible actions Hawke can make, if you ask me.

Best thing about it is that Tevinter can use him to further their goals in reconquering Thedas. No Templar nor "divine" can resist him in their sleep.

if Feynriel drinks High Dragon blood(especially if he would have Lyrium Vassalyn) and become grey Warden(get taint blood with Aventus potion), then yes he can wipe or possesed by demons entire army of non-mages without problems

but without it not really, Tevinter and even Orlais Chanty and some Templars still have some Litany of Andralla and some things what protect them from such things

it is never was so easy, if it was Arlathan would never fall, Ancient Tevinter would never fall, Orlais empire and Chantry would never was born and never would destroy Dales(Dalish have them too) and create their Chantry Circles.

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 10 juin 2013 - 06:13 .

[Boycott Bioware]

iakus wrote...
Merrill is supremely confident inher abilities, to the point of recklessness.

i don't think so, because in her last quest she ask Hawke to be beside her, if something should happen, kill her...meaning she's not confident with what shes's doing all these time

If she truly confident, she don't need Hawke

Modifié par Qistina, 10 juin 2013 - 05:10 .

[Boycott Bioware]

But yes, it is a game requirement that your companions fall. But to me it just illustrates how dangerous demons are. They know precisely what buttons to push, even to those normally on their guard (like Merrill and Fenris) and shows the dangers mages have to live with.

Why the Pride Demon didn't tempting Hawke but instead the companions? A weak demon who want to tempt Hawke in the beginning, but the powerful one don't want, funny isn't it?

it is a bad writing....

[EmperorSahlertz]

The Pride Demon didn't try and influence Hawke for many reasons. Either Hawke was already marked by the Sloth Demon (who by its presence in the area obviously is among the stronger of his kind, and as such, not weak at all), or had just resisted it, and thus proven to be hard to influence. Also, Hawke had just prevented the Pride Demon from gaining his prize, and thus the Pride Demon wanted Hawke dead, and it probably took some kind of pleasure from the idea of it being Hawke's friends who killed him.

[LobselVith8]

iakus wrote...

Qistina wrote...

But he doesn't, he become confident on his ability and become more careful with demons and such things, that is the whole point, he will not fall to demons prey because he have confidence.

It takes more than confidence to reist the temptations of demons (see what happens to Hawke's companions, including Merrill, in Night Terrors)

It takes absurd plot railroading to cause Hawke's companions to attempt to murder him after a few seconds of being made an offer by a demon (see: "Night Terrors").

iakus wrote...

Qistina wrote...

Those who turn on Blood Magic are mostly Circle Mages, both in DA:O and DA2, why? Because of the condition and environment 

Most of the mages we've met in DAO and DA2 were CIrcle mages anyway.  

You realize that virtually all mages in Tevinter are blood mages, right?  You can't advance without the power it provides.

We have entries in the WoT where some Tevinter mages discourage the use of blood magic. And we also know that some mages in the Imperium are slaves. However, I do agree that blood magic is used by more than simply apostates from the Chantry controlled Circles. The Grey Warden mages who use blood magic to give them an edge against the darkspawn are another example.

iakus wrote...

Edit:  and for the record, I do send Feynriel to Tevinter.  It's a dangerous move, but I thinik he deserves every chance to live his life without being made Tranquil. 

I agree about Feynriel. Given his background in the Alienage, I think he could grow up to be a good man, and try to change Tevinter for the better. He certainly uses his power for good if he's sent to Tevinter - preventing the rape of a young woman named Orlanna by bandits who kidnapped her.

[Dave of Canada]

I'm going to love seeing everyone blame the mages for the apocalypse.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Dave of Canada wrote...

I'm going to love seeing everyone blame the mages for the apocalypse.

I'm going to love being the blood mage everyone thinks is probably personally responsible.

[LobselVith8]

Qistina wrote...

iakus wrote...

It takes more than confidence to reist the temptations of demons (see what happens to Hawke's companions, including Merrill, in Night Terrors)

Merill have no confidence actually, that is why she need Hawke, if you realize it. That is her character

And it is a game requirement that all Hawke companions will fall in that particular scene

Merrill has confidence. The former First of Marethari has arguments with Anders over their conflicting religious views, and Merrill never once capitulates to Anders religious Andrastian views. We see her display her intellect and her adept handling of magic throughout the narrative. The thing is she's simply awkward around humans, having lived her entire life among the Dalish (up until the point in Act I where she leaves the Sabare Clan). Her culture shock in human society doesn't really help matters.

Qistina wrote...

iakus wrote...

Most of the mages we've met in DAO and DA2 were CIrcle mages anyway.

You realize that virtually all mages in Tevinter are blood mages, right? You can't advance without the power it provides.

Edit: and for the record, I do send Feynriel to Tevinter. It's a dangerous move, but I thinik he deserves every chance to live his life without being made Tranquil.

What i mean is, with all the things the Templars and Chantry did, they just failed, the system failed, they are not the solution because they create resistance, the system run based on prejudice. They do not provide answers or solution, they only provide judgment

The Mages that turn to Blood Mages in Broken Circle are Circle Mages who going through Harrowing. Uldred is senior Enchanter but he did consort to demon, so the Chantry just fail.

The Mages Hawke hunting in Act 3 are runaway from the Circle, in Act 1 Starhaven Mages are runaway from the Circle...most Blood Mages in the game are from the Circle. So we can question if the Circle really functional and their measures are effective?

Most Mages of Tevinter Imperium are Blood Mages, that maybe true, but yet we never see with our own eyes the daily routine in Tevinter. What we see in kirkwal and many other Chantry kingdom are the effect of the running system. Mages in Chantry Kingdom resort to Blood Magic and demonology is for resistance, to against the Templar and the system.

Maybe in the system that is run by Blood Mages themselves, everything is okay 

Now that the mages have their autonomy, I suppose we'll see whether or not the new protagonist can help them with a new system to replace the Chantry controlled Circles.

[EmperorSahlertz]

LobselVith8 wrote...
I agree about Feynriel. Given his background in the Alienage, I think he could grow up to be a good man, and try to change Tevinter for the better. He certainly uses his power for good if he's sent to Tevinter - preventing the rape of a young woman named Orlanna by bandits who kidnapped her.

Yes. Brainwashing her into falling in love with him, is such a noble move, and a true show of his righteous character.....

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 11 juin 2013 - 12:18 .