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[The Elder King]

While I don't care if a group of mages caused voluntarily the breach in the Fade, I doubt that of happened. For physically entering the Fade, the magisters sacrificed thousands (of not hundreds of thousands) of slaves and a third of the lyrium reserve. While the hypothetical spell to breach the Fade might not be as big, it should still be a massive one. Tevinter might be in the condition of affording the price (I'm not that sure), but if would damage the Imperium too much. I don't think they're take that gambit, after what happened the last time.
I think the Fade breachings (I doubt that there's only one) were caused by the wars in Thedas, which put the final strain on the Veil. Some people (myself included) thought that it'd happen, sooner or later.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Xilizhra wrote...

Why are you writing letters that have nothing to do with the current situation? There are no more Circles.

It's also on the disingenuous side to write of events like that as though they were common occurrences, of course.

Because - unlike your posts - it is actually on topic.

I also tire of your disingenuous assertions.

[Xilizhra]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Why are you writing letters that have nothing to do with the current situation? There are no more Circles.

It's also on the disingenuous side to write of events like that as though they were common occurrences, of course.

Because - unlike your posts - it is actually on topic.

I also tire of your disingenuous assertions.

It's not much of a perspective if it gives no insight on the current situation.

[EmperorSahlertz]

None of the codex entries offer any insight to the current situation, yet they all add to the background and adds perspective. A source does not have to be concurrent to add perspective.

[Xilizhra]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

None of the codex entries offer any insight to the current situation, yet they all add to the background and adds perspective. A source does not have to be concurrent to add perspective.

Possibly, but the tone thus far implies templars who've already left to be on the Divine's side, whose perspective we're likely to get in any case.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Why not get EVERYONES perspective?
I find that far better than cherrypicking.

[Xilizhra]

Got it. I thus task you to write something sympathetic from a magister's point of view.

[EmperorSahlertz]

It is hard to make human sacrifice sound sympathetic..

[dragonflight288]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

It is hard to make human sacrifice sound sympathetic..

You think EVERY mage does human sacrifices? Do you think EVERY mage wants to control the minds of others?

It simply isn't true. The average mage doesn't care about it, don't want it, and simply wants to live their lives. The developers said in DA2 they deliberately left those mages out because they wanted more people to side with templars.

You can try to write a letter from an apprentices' point of view, and how all they want is to survive the Harrowing (which they don't know what's involved to begin with,) not be made tranquil, and worry about how their family is doing since being torn away from them...or abandoned like in Jowan's case.

Modifié par dragonflight288, 11 juin 2013 - 04:12 .

[The Elder King]

Emperor is talking about magisters, though even in this case, at least a small part of them could be more 'good' (they might die earlier though).
Considering that we might have a magister companion, we might find in DAI if good magisters exist.

[dragonflight288]

hhh89 wrote...

Emperor is talking about magisters, though even in this case, at least a small part of them could be more 'good' (they might die earlier though).
Considering that we might have a magister companion, we might find in DAI if good magisters exist.

We had a perspective of Tevinter from the slave's view (Fenris) so I think it'll be interesting to have a Magister as a companion, and see things from their perspective.

[Plaintiff]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

It is hard to make human sacrifice sound sympathetic..

It doesn't have to be about that, and merely focussing on that aspect of the character would be just as disingenuous as Lotion is accusing Xilizhra of being.

[MisterJB]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

It is hard to make human sacrifice sound sympathetic..

Nonsense, "The World of Thedas" already provided one. Page 79.

A MAGISTER'S NEEDS

Dearest sister:

It's been an age since I've written, but I simply had to thank you! Your advice was perfect . Just a few gossips bought with gold and everyone in Minrathous thought Quirinus and I were the most dreadful rivals. It let us indulge our little love affair without his wretched family interfering, if only for a little while.
Quirinus himself sadly turned out to be less ideal. I caught him carrying on behind my back, with a Soporati of all things. Can you imagine? There was nothing for it. During the quarrel, I threw boiling water in his face. Let his Soporati kiss his scars better.
He's cowering in his mansion now, pretending he was hurt in a duel. No doubt he'll want revenge. Don't worry , dear sister. I took precautions. Don't tell anyone, but my master taught me a few secrets that should keep me safe. The ritual cost me the mansion's kitchen slave. Lenna, I think she was called? But I've enough power now to keep Quirinus from trying anything foolish. Kitchen slaves can be bought by the dozen at the market, so there's not harm in it.
I feel wonderful, dear sister. Won't you come for Wintersend this year? I'll have my new slave trained to make your favorite lemon cakes by then. It'll be perfect.

-Letter from Magister Delphine to her sister Aulia.
8:65 Blessed

How can you not be enthralled by this tale of forbidden love the likes of which not put to pen since "Romeo and Juliet"? How can you not filled with dread when presented with the possiblity of our heroine being harmed by the man she disfigured; with joy and relief when we realize a simple human sacrifice will protect her?
I must admit, my favorite part must when Delphine speaks of people as if they are easily replaceable objects. Humor not seen since the comedies of ancient Greece.

Modifié par MisterJB, 11 juin 2013 - 04:35 .

[The Elder King]

Frankly, the opinion about slaves in Tevinter, as shown in the letter, is the same opinion Cato the Censor had about slaves. It's realistic. I have no problems about that.
That doesn't mean that a small part of magisters treat slaves differently (the same happened in Rome) or that are good people. Again, they might die earlier during fights with other magisters, or become corrupted, but they might exist.

[MisterJB]

Certainly. The point is that if we are going to grab some letter written by Alrik and say "There is your Templar perspective" the same can easily be done to the mages.
In the end, grey morality can only benefit the game and this applies to both mages and templars.

[The Elder King]

MisterJB wrote...

Certainly. The point is that if we are going to grab some letter written by Alrik and say "There is your Templar perspective" the same can easily be done to the mages.
In the end, grey morality can only benefit the game and this applies to both mages and templars.

I agree on both points. Returning to the  grey morality that mages and templars had in DAO is one of my expectations from DAI.

[Asdrubael Vect]

MisterJB wrote...


A MAGISTER'S NEEDS

Dearest sister:

It's been an age since I've written, but I simply had to thank you! Your advice was perfect . Just a few gossips bought with gold and everyone in Minrathous thought Quirinus and I were the most dreadful rivals. It let us indulge our little love affair without his wretched family interfering, if only for a little while.
Quirinus himself sadly turned out to be less ideal. I caught him carrying on behind my back, with a Soporati of all things. Can you imagine? There was nothing for it. During the quarrel, I threw boiling water in his face. Let his Soporati kiss his scars better.
He's cowering in his mansion now, pretending he was hurt in a duel. No doubt he'll want revenge. Don't worry , dear sister. I took precautions. Don't tell anyone, but my master taught me a few secrets that should keep me safe. The ritual cost me the mansion's kitchen slave. Lenna, I think she was called? But I've enough power now to keep Quirinus from trying anything foolish. Kitchen slaves can be bought by the dozen at the market, so there's not harm in it.
I feel wonderful, dear sister. Won't you come for Wintersend this year? I'll have my new slave trained to make your favorite lemon cakes by then. It'll be perfect.

-Letter from Magister Delphine to her sister Aulia.
8:65 Blessed[/i]

How can you not be enthralled by this tale of forbidden love the likes of which not put to pen since "Romeo and Juliet"? How can you not filled with dread when presented with the possiblity of our heroine being harmed by the man she disfigured; with joy and relief when we realize a simple human sacrifice will protect her?
I must admit, my favorite part must when Delphine speaks of people as if they are easily replaceable objects. Humor not seen since the comedies of ancient Greece.

pffff now look at this

"A COUNTESS NEEDS

Dearest sister:

It's been an age since I've written, but I simply had to thank you! Your advice was perfect . Just a few gossips bought with gold and everyone in Orlais thought Quirinus and I were the most dreadful rivals. It let us indulge our little love affair without his wretched family interfering, if only for a little while.
Quirinus himself sadly turned out to be less ideal. I caught him carrying on behind my back, with a peasant woman of all things. Can you imagine? There was nothing for it. During the quarrel, I threw boiling water in his face. Let his peasant woman kiss his scars better.
He's cowering in his mansion now, pretending he was hurt in a duel. No doubt he'll want revenge. Don't worry , dear sister. I took precautions. Don't tell anyone, but my dear Chevallier  taught me a few secrets that should keep me safe. This secret cost me life of the mansion's kitchen servant. Lenna, I think she was called? But I've enough power now to keep Quirinus from trying anything foolish. Kitchen servants can be hired by the dozen at the city, so there's not harm in it.
I feel wonderful, dear sister. Won't you come for Wintersend this year? I'll have my new servant trained to make your favorite lemon cakes by then. It'll be perfect.

-Letter from Countess Delphine to her sister Aulia.
8:65 Blessed"

as you see this is simply letter from one noble **** to another who is her sister,  and nothing really changed if it was mage or non-mage from any country...we see and know about those nobles in Ferelden, Free Marshes, Orlais and yes of course they would be in those places as Tevinter who have endless war with Chantry, Orlais and Qunari by themselfs and who have a lot of Refugees from other countries

this Delphine is a jealous Magister aprentice who lives in her Master mansion and who secretly kill one of her Master slave for her protection ritual and who later wanted to by some cheap illegal slaves on Black Market to replace missing slave

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 11 juin 2013 - 06:04 .

[MisterJB]

You know, I could point out a thing or two about the cultural differences in the roles of servants in Ferelden when compared to slaves in Tevinter but rather, I think I'm just going to point out the most glaringly obvious failure in your post.
Magister Delphina sacrificed a slave in a blood magic ritual which is not something a non-mage noble could do.

[Asdrubael Vect]

MisterJB wrote...

You know, I could point out a thing or two about the cultural differences in the roles of servants in Ferelden when compared to slaves in Tevinter but rather, I think I'm just going to point out the most glaringly obvious failure in your post.
Magister Delphina sacrificed a slave in a blood magic ritual which is not something a non-mage noble could do.

ORLY? play city elf origin(for both genders) and you will see many pretty things

or you forget about many nobles and their "good" childrens what we see in DA 1-2

aprentice Delphina is a noble **** but at least she secretly kill her for something real not just for luls...BUT she is not even touch Sopotati so this is a real evidense that disproves Сhantry propoganda about "all  Tevinter mages opressing, kill enslaved all non-mages what they wanted"

and nobles(damn even some Chantry members with Templars do this) not need to be a mages to hire a alchemists, mages or demons  who will do all rituals for them

but in most cases they simply opress,beat, rape and kill peoples just for luls ....one of them(i remember one 15 old noble woman from denerim) kill her dogs(puppy's) every week and took a new

when all Tevinter magisters(only Danarius and Hadrianna was not be illegal Tevinter slavers-criminals who send their illegal non-Tevinter slaves in Black Market for nobles/rich peoples from most of all Thedas Kingdoms, not just Tevinter where they can be executed if would be caught) what we see kill their slaves for somethink real and in most cases for their own protection agains our heroes who already killed most of all their guards..

...this is not the same of when you kill someone just for luls, do not forget Magisters are nobles and have high military rank in Tevinter what makes their life more valuable than life of some soldiers/peasants/servants/slaves so if Magisters can save their life by sacrifising(do ritual or send to the death) some of their not valuable subordinates like slaves(who cant effectively fight and already would be killed in most cases if Magister would die) as their last hope to win battle so it make sense to do so...even Hadriana not doing this because she like this(and she is not if you listen Orana) but because she need to survive this battle what  already was lost

this is medieval society and most of nobles-oficers will sacrifice their soldiers survive in battle or soldiers themselfs will die to protect their nobles from death....no one Kingdom would want to death of their officers and any valuable soldiers/citizens what would weaken their Kingdom...this is cruel but it is a necessity, so be more realistic and understand situation before judge someone mage or non-mage for their actions

yes we always would have bastards who would kill peoples just for luls, but do not compare them with those who not have any choices and made it because they need it for somethink real, for somethink more valuable than they sacrificed....what is more valuable: one soldier/healer(mage or non-mage) who can kill many enemyes and save many peoples, or one peasant/servant who cant do anything to protect his kingdom and peoples but his sacrifice would save many of them especially those who can save and do much more.

this just the same situation as with Golems(when 1 poor castless can become a warrior who will cost as 10 good warriors) or Grey Wardens(when many will die but others who survive would became those who will stop enemy)

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 11 juin 2013 - 08:50 .

[dragonflight288]

....

.......

Killing slaves is wrong no matter the reason, be they noble, magister, mage or even non-mage orlesian. I abhor politics and generally want it out out of the way so wardens, mages, templar (or templar equivalents) can do their job without worrying about political ramifications.

Just like abusing ones power is wrong, no matter what position, organization, or magical status one has. I treat the mage and the non-mage with equal contempt when they are guilty of a crime.

[EmperorSahlertz]

dragonflight288 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

It is hard to make human sacrifice sound sympathetic..

You think EVERY mage does human sacrifices? Do you think EVERY mage wants to control the minds of others?

It simply isn't true. The average mage doesn't care about it, don't want it, and simply wants to live their lives. The developers said in DA2 they deliberately left those mages out because they wanted more people to side with templars.

You can try to write a letter from an apprentices' point of view, and how all they want is to survive the Harrowing (which they don't know what's involved to begin with,) not be made tranquil, and worry about how their family is doing since being torn away from them...or abandoned like in Jowan's case.

I was making a reference to the Magisters' point of view. We already got dozens of different viewpoints of mages, so there really isn't mcuh need for several more of them. We know that most magisters feel superior to none-mages, and we know many Circle Mages wants freedom. There is however precious few insights into the psyche of the Templars. What few we have, are either just codex entries about Templar trainning, or from a sick bastard (Alrik). We don't have any insight into the rank and file of the Templars.

[Xilizhra]

We've spoken to the rank/file plenty of times; moreso in DA2, but we definitely get it.

[BlueMagitek]

Well, from a companion perspective, we've had, what, Alistar, who has Templar abilities but isn't really a Templar (he doesn't guard mages, he doesn't hunt apostates or maleficar, etc). On the mage side, we've had a Witch of the Wilds, a Circle Senior Enchanter, a Circle mage turned apostate, a Keeper, a Keeper/Maleficar and an apostate.

It's fairly heavily biased in favor of one side.

[Xilizhra]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Well, from a companion perspective, we've had, what, Alistar, who has Templar abilities but isn't really a Templar (he doesn't guard mages, he doesn't hunt apostates or maleficar, etc). On the mage side, we've had a Witch of the Wilds, a Circle Senior Enchanter, a Circle mage turned apostate, a Keeper, a Keeper/Maleficar and an apostate.

It's fairly heavily biased in favor of one side.

Templars are all part of one organization; insight about some is insight about most. The mages are mostly from different backgrounds.

[addiction21]

not worth it

Modifié par addiction21, 12 juin 2013 - 02:30 .