1081 réponses à ce sujet

[Asdrubael Vect]

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 12 juin 2013 - 11:30 .

[LobselVith8]

Jayne126 wrote...

I'm all for portraying the templars in more than one way.

These man are your friends and fighting for your freedom!

Well, expect if you're a mage. Then screw you heretic.

I sincerely hope I can play as a heretic.

[Ausstig]

Plaintiff wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
The Tempalrs and the Chantry are still very compatible.

The Templars obviously disagree, since they abandoned the Chantry.

They left because of the corrupt Divine that betrayed them.
The refuse to take orders anymore, but Chantry as a whole, the goals and general outlook is still compatible.

Pretty sure the Divine is the one who gets to choose how Chantry doctrine is interpreted and enforced, and Lambert's job is to bend over and deal with it.

If the president does something illegal (and kills us people) is it the parlament's job to role over and take it?

OR do they try to force them to account? 

[unbentbuzzkill]

Templars are all insane, or claim to be just following orders. I would love to see one with a mind of their own.

[Who is that Masked Man]

Dark Korsar wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

We aren't saying that only those 4 or 5 Templars were the bastards. We are saying that to claim that ALL Templars, based on these 4 or 5, are bastards, is unfair.

Ser Mettin
Knight-Commander Greagoir(espesially when he was young)
Sadatt
Ser Karras
Knight-Commander Martel
Knight-Commander Meredith
Ser Otto Alrik
Rylock
Ser Varnell
Ser Thiall
Wilmod
Samson
Ser Roderick

Ser Thiall died because he wouldn't let his fellow templars murder random Chasind women. Absolutely not a bastard.

Ser Wilmod was brutalized and possessed by a demon due to crazy blood mages. He never even got a chance to be a bastard.

Ser Roderick is a lyrium-addled dupe, but not necessarily a bastard.

Ser Greagoir is only partly a bastard. The rest of him is a pretty decent guy. He and Cullen deserve to be on a seperate list of sort-of-a-bastards.

But, yeah, the rest of those guys are pretty much bastards.

[LobselVith8]

BlueMagitek wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Merrill was the First, not the Keeper. It's not up for debate.

Also, Cullen and Cassandra could be mandatory companions, so we have to put up with them if they turn out to be mandatory companions. Pro-mage fans included. And the Seekers seem to be little more than 'elite templars', so I see no reason to discount her from the discussion.

As Xil pointed out earlier, we received different cultural perspectives with the different mage companions - Merrill was Dalish and Anders was Andrastian, while Morrigan reveled in her freedom as Wynne supported the Chantry controlled Circle, for example. I'm sure Cullen and Cassandra will add templar perspectives to the narrative, whether we care to have them along or not. 

You're right, I'm sorry.  Dalish Pariah, not Keeper/Bloodmage.  Could have just said that and saved us a lot of time.

A former First of the Keeper. Who knows how the other Dalish perceive Merrill, especially if she opposed the templars (an enemy of the People) in Kirkwall along with pro-mage, apostate Hawke?

BlueMagitek wrote...

Again, that has nothing to do with what has already happened.  And even if you need to take them with you, that's still 2 Templar (Alistar/Cullen) as opposed to, what, 6+  mages over several games?  The Seekers appear to be more of the Internal Affairs than actual Templar.  Unless you want to tell me that their primary function is to guard Circles and peasantry, hunt apostates and police mages?

Culturally the Templar could do the same.  A Tevinter Templar could be as different from Wynne as Morrigan was.  Templar also come from all walks of life.

Merrill was Dalish. Anders was Andrastian. There are mages among the Avvar, the Chasind, the Cult of Andraste in Haven, in the kingdom of Rivain, among the Qunari, in the Imperium, and spread out across the Andrastian kingdoms as apostates and Circle mages. You get more variety with mages.

[Asdrubael Vect]

Who is that Masked Man wrote...


Ser Thiall died because he wouldn't let his fellow templars murder random Chasind women. Absolutely not a bastard.

Ser Wilmod was brutalized and possessed by a demon due to crazy blood mages. He never even got a chance to be a bastard.

Ser Roderick is a lyrium-addled dupe, but not necessarily a bastard.

Ser Greagoir is only partly a bastard. The rest of him is a pretty decent guy. He and Cullen deserve to be on a seperate list of sort-of-a-bastards.

But, yeah, the rest of those guys are pretty much bastards.

Ser Mettin
Knight-Commander Greagoir(espesially when he was younger)
Sadatt
Ser Karras
Knight-Commander Martel
Knight-Commander Meredith
Ser Otto Alrik
Rylock
Ser Varnell
Commander of Ser Thiall qroup(sorry i mixed up a character)
Wilmod(he goes for the brothels)
Samson
Ser Conrad
Ser Roderick(he was on Mistress Selby board so he cant be innocent)

Divine Ambrosia II
Divine Renata I
DIvine Galatea
Grand Cleric Callista
Sister/Mother Petrice

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 12 juin 2013 - 11:48 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Ausstig wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
The Tempalrs and the Chantry are still very compatible.

The Templars obviously disagree, since they abandoned the Chantry.

They left because of the corrupt Divine that betrayed them.
The refuse to take orders anymore, but Chantry as a whole, the goals and general outlook is still compatible.

Pretty sure the Divine is the one who gets to choose how Chantry doctrine is interpreted and enforced, and Lambert's job is to bend over and deal with it.

If the president does something illegal (and kills us people) is it the parlament's job to role over and take it?

OR do they try to force them to account? 

Most legislatures exist primarily to serve as a counterbalance to executive power. The Lord-Seeker position does not: it is down in the agreement that he is subordinate to the Divine.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Dark Korsar wrote...

Wilmod(he goes for the brothels)

That doesn't make him a bastard. Just his kids.

[Asdrubael Vect]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Dark Korsar wrote...

Wilmod(he goes for the brothels)

That doesn't make him a bastard. Just his kids.

so when KC or Chantry members will go for this places this is would be ok

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 12 juin 2013 - 11:51 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Dark Korsar wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Dark Korsar wrote...

Wilmod(he goes for the brothels)

That doesn't make him a bastard. Just his kids.

so when KC or Chantry members will go this is would be ok

Not the ones who swore to keep it in their trousers, no. Though I think it's more discouraged among Templars than forbidden.

[Asdrubael Vect]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Dark Korsar wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Dark Korsar wrote...

Wilmod(he goes for the brothels)

That doesn't make him a bastard. Just his kids.

so when KC or Chantry members will go this is would be ok

Not the ones who swore to keep it in their trousers, no. Though I think it's more discouraged among Templars than forbidden.

still because mages are not allow to have such pleasures this would be a some kind of hypocrisy;)

but for me when Templars go for brothels then they can posibly start to rape mages especially when they have a lack of money

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 13 juin 2013 - 12:05 .

[Xilizhra]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

We aren't saying that only those 4 or 5 Templars were the bastards. We are saying that to claim that ALL Templars, based on these 4 or 5, are bastards, is unfair.

True. Rather, we take into account that the actions the templars in general take are inherently bastardly, and that the non-bastard templars tend to be of the treacherous variety. Which is fine; few organizations deserve to be betrayed more.

[Dabrikishaw]

Who is that Masked Man wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

We aren't saying that only those 4 or 5 Templars were the bastards. We are saying that to claim that ALL Templars, based on these 4 or 5, are bastards, is unfair.

It kind of looks like Dabrikishaw was saying that only those 3 templars were bastards.

That was it.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Dark Korsar wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Not the ones who swore to keep it in their trousers, no. Though I think it's more discouraged among Templars than forbidden.

still because mages are not allow to have such pleasures this would be a some kind of hypocrisy;)

The Circles do not uniformly forbid sex. So this isn't a universalizable attack. Besides, are you suggesting that the Templars go without just because they're ordered to make sure the mages do? Putting aside that I think it's stupid to forbid mages sex at all, what with needing there to be more mages next generation, what does seeing a reason to forbid mages sex have to do with seeing a reason to forbid the templars sex? (Though even so, I should point out that the Templars aren't encouraged to have sex either.)

but for me when Templars go for brothels then they can posibly start to rape mages especially when they have a lack of money

 I really don't get where you're coming from here. Paying for sex and forcing it aren't the same thing, and one does not necessarily indicate an inclination towards the other.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 13 juin 2013 - 01:03 .

[dragonflight288]

wow, it is very difficult to keep up with this thread as it goes through the pages so fast. I can barely keep up.

So....we're discussing the variations in backgrounds between mages and templars now? It's really simple.

Mages are anyone born with a connection to the Fade that allows them to access its power, as well as use lyrium or blood magic to enter the Fade conscious and aware, compared to the mundanes who enter the Fade nightly when they dream, and a mage comes from all walks of life, from Tevinter magisters and slaves in Tevinter, to Dalish, Qunari, Rivaini Seer, Chasind Shaman, Haven priest, Avvar whatever-their-official-name is called, and so on. Magic transcends borders and cultures, and is a gift AND curse some are simply born with, and ought to train and educate themselves in order to control it before they endanger themselves and those around them.

The Templars and Seekers are a strictly religious order of warriors who were founded as the Inquisition after the death of Andraste, and joined the chantry later. They, as an organization, believe they do the Maker's Divine Work by hunting mages as they see only danger in magic, and are only Andrastian. As an organization itself, and according to the templar codex, they largely recruit from the religiously zealous compared over those with moral integrity in order to keep their soldiers from questioning their orders. We know from Alistair that as an orphan he was given to the Chantry and the choice to become a templar was made FOR him regardless of what he wanted, so we know the Chantry and the templars raise orphans to be templars.

The main difference between the variations of the two groups is pretty straight-forward and isn't, or shouldn't, be controversial. Mages can come from anywhere and be of any background, whereas a templar and a seeker are strictly Andrastian, and come from only one culture.

I don't really get why we're discussing this as I skipped a lot of pages to get here, but whatever, and I don't even know if the conversation has been resolved or not because I haven't read the recent posts, so I'm just expressing my confusion why this is even a topic up for debate when it's pretty clear.

[BlueMagitek]

To be fair, DragonFlight, it's quite possible that, given the reluctance of the Cleric to give up Alistar to Duncan, that it wasn't him being an asset to the Chantry as a Templar, but to keep Maric's son in their pocket.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Jayne126 wrote...

unbentbuzzkill wrote...

Templars are all insane, or claim to be just following orders. I would love to see one with a mind of their own.

The saftey of the majority justifies the mage system, or a straight up purification. Freedom is not a right but a privilege if you're a walking bomb. The Templars shoulder the weight of their fellow "normals" and mages their own. Sacrifices must take place on both sides to reclaim Order and Unity.

If by "straight-up purification" you mean "kill every mage," (or even Tranqulize every mage) then no. There is nothing that can justify that. It would lead to the mages having no incentive to cooperate, which would lead to exactly the danger you're wiping them out over. Even if you succeeded anyway, the mages are needed. If they don't exist, the world ends during the next Blight. It's better that the whole world be conquered by Tevinter.

Edit: At any rate, I don't think this exactly replies to the post you were replying to.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 13 juin 2013 - 03:15 .

[BlueMagitek]

Well, you could just kill every darkspawn. Then the Archdemon soul has nowhere to go.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Well, you could just kill every darkspawn. Then the Archdemon soul has nowhere to go.

Possible in theory, but incredibly impractical. Ask the dwarves. They have been trying.

[RobRam10]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Well, you could just kill every darkspawn. Then the Archdemon soul has nowhere to go.

Kinda difficult since they are underground cockroaches, bloodyspawns breed quickly.

Modifié par RobRam10, 13 juin 2013 - 03:18 .

[BlueMagitek]

I'm just offering alternatives to your doom and gloom statements. But yes, it is very impractical.

Though, with the Flesh golems destroying the Deep Roads, who knows what's up?

[iOnlySignIn]

Xilizhra wrote...

the non-bastard templars tend to be of the treacherous variety

I'd infinitely prefer the likes of Alrik and Kerras over the likes of Keran and Thrask.

I'd rather my enemies act in a manner honest to their true nature, than smile and pretend to be friendly and expecting me to buy that crap.

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 13 juin 2013 - 03:31 .