EmperorSahlertz wrote...
dragonflight288 wrote...
Ausstig wrote...
dragonflight288 wrote...
The main difference between the variations of the two groups is pretty straight-forward and isn't, or shouldn't, be controversial. Mages can come from anywhere and be of any background, whereas a templar and a seeker are strictly Andrastian, and come from only one culture.
Yes because there is no difference in culture between Orlais and Ferelden at all. They are both Andraste nations and so there for are exactly alike in every way.
Or is that wrong?
Following very similar beliefs. And seeing as the templars throughout the whole world have left the Chantry so they can pursue mages, well most of them that is, I would say that even though they may be of different nationalities, they share the same religion and many of them, having been raised in the Chantry, would live in the same culture. Gregoire was able to send Cullen to the Free Marches to be part of another Circle, and the templars there, while far more extreme than the ones in Ferelden, more or less had the exact same culture because of the Chantry.
There is variety among templars, and they have differing nationalities, but they all share the same religion.
The only point was that mages were far more diverse than templars, seeing as they come from all walks of life, from all cultures, and their religion can be almost anything based on where they grew up. The Qunari may follow the Qun, the Dalish worship the creators, an Andrastian mage would worship the Maker, and so on. Every templar is Andrastian.
Why must we nitpick over this detail? The chantry is the largest religion in Thedas, and is very widespread, so most nations have templars (or may not anymore as a result of the templars abandoning the Chantry, we'll find out in the next game) It's not exactly something worth fighting over. Ever templar is an Andrastian, and the same cannot be said of mages. All it means is that mages are more diverse in their backgrounds. Why is this such a big deal?
That is like saying all mages are the same, becasuse all of them can cast magic.... Templars come from many different backgrounds, and have different unique motivations to each individual, just like the mages. However, so far we have not been given a lot of insight to these unique individuals, but rather rinto the monolothic Order itself, which tends to depersonify the Templars, even though they are still all human.
Not it isn't. To begin with, if you are from a different country but share the same religion, you believe the same things, are taught the same precepts and doctrine, and you may have the same standards, influenced in some ways by other aspects of your background and personality, changing more or less in the interpretation of that same doctrine.
Anders and Merrill or Merrill vs Sebastian debating in banter, and comparing thoses debates to Morrigan debating Leliana, Alistair and Wynne in Origins, more or less show people with very different personalities, but ulitmately on a religious level, believing the same thing, save for Leliana when it comes to the pro-chantry members seeing as she is more liberal in her interpretation of the Chant.
Anders as an Andrastian discusses how demons fall into very specific categories of sins, and Merrill refutes it by saying one demon is as different from another demon as humans and dwarves. Anders, Wynne's, and Alistair's arguments when it comes to blood magic ALL stem from being taught the Chantry's position of blood magic, whereas Morrigan and Merrill's view clearly states they, as members of a completely different religion, or in Morrigan's case, no religion at all, shows they believe blood magic is only negative when used in a negative fashion.
You can add in different life experiences, personalities, and you'll have a wide variety of templars, but most of them will will believe in the exact same thing on a religious level, and the templar codex doesn't do much to discourage this train of thought when it specifically says
Often portrayed as stoic and grim, the Order of Templars was created as the martial arm of the Chantry.
Armed with the ability to dispel and resist magic in addition to their
formidable combat talents, the templars are uniquely qualified to act as
both a foil for apostates - mages who refuse to submit to the authority of the Circle - and a first line of defense against the dark powers of blood mages and abominations.
While mages often resent the templars as symbols of the Chantry's control over magic, the people of Thedas
see them as saviors and holy warriors, champions of all that is good,
armed with piety enough to protect the world from the ravages of foul
magic. In reality, the Chantry's militant arm looks first for skilled
warriors with unshakable faith in the Maker,
with a flawless moral center as a secondary concern. Templars must
carry out their duty with an emotional distance, and the Order of
Templars prefers soldiers with religious fervor and absolute loyalty
over paragons of virtue who might question orders when it comes time to
make difficult choices.The templars' power derives from the substance lyrium,
a mineral believed to be the raw element of creation. While mages use
lyrium in their arcane spells and rituals, templars ingest the
primordial mineral to enhance their abilities to resist and dispel
magic. Lyrium use is regulated by the Chantry, but some templars suffer
from lyrium addiction, the effects of which include paranoia, obsession,
and dementia. Templars knowingly submit themselves to this "treatment"
in the service of the Order and the Maker.
It is this sense of ruthless piety that most frightens mages when
they draw the templars' attention: When the templars are sent to
eliminate a possible blood mage, there is no reasoning with them, and if
the templars are prepared, the mage's magic is all but useless. Driven
by their faith, the templars are one of the most feared and respected
forces in Thedas.
--From Patterns Within Form, by Halden, First Enchanter of Starkhaven, 8:80 Blessed.
In the end, however, I never once said all templars are the same, and from what I can gather, neither has anyone else. There's a huge diffference between Alistair, Gregoire and Meredith, and a huge difference in how Gregoire and Meredith tackled their responsibility as Knight-Commander. Gregoire took more of a balanced approach and even if he disagreed with Irving, worked with him and the mages in the running of the Circle, thus making Ferelden one of the most liberal circles, and that differed from Meredith, who seemed to take more responsibility in the political arena, and there's a huge difference in the attitude between the Grand Cleric in Ferelden who isn't afraid to step in and give Loghain a finger-wagging when it comes to interefering with templars duties than Elthina who tried to take a middle ground and attempted to keep the peace, to mixed interpretation by gaming fans.
The only point was that mages have a more varied background, and have more variety than the templars do simply because not every mage shares the same religion. Templars have a variety of backgrounds too, but mages have more variety as a result of being born everyday in a vast multitutde of cultures and is biological, compared to the templars being an organization within a single religion.
Like in real life, if you join an organization on the political arena, that says a lot about yourself and your standards because you join it having similar views as most of the others who joined it, even if your personality, life experiences, or even interpretation of certain parts of life completely differ from one-another, but more or less have the same standards as others in that same group. You would still be your own person.
Another way of saying it is mage supporters and templar supporters are full of unique individuals with their own interpretations and viewpoints of Thedas, and when it comes to the small details, one mage supporter may differ in opinion from another mage supporter, and vice-versa for templar supporters, but every mage supporter generally believes in the same thing and doesn't trust the templar order to be the guardians of mages anymore, and every templar supporter more or less believes mages are too dangerous to have autonomy and don't trust mages with liberty or trusts mages to govern their own lives because they believe that means another Tevinter.
It doesn't make anyone the same as another, as everyone is unique, but when categorized into groups, you can make an accurate and generical characterization of that person's beliefs based on their affiliation with a group by knowing what that group believes. Templars as a group have been chosen by the chantry for religious fervor over moral character for centuries, so you can accurately guess that the average templar strongly religious, probably thinks mages are too dangerous to be on their own (and they're the only ones qualified to watch them,) and we know every templar is Andrastian. With a basic knowledge of what the Chantry and the Chant of Light teaches, you can then gain the knowledge of the religious beliefs of almost every templars.
Mages have more variety simply in the fact that they aren't a group organized by a single belief, and their magic is biological. It's not a "join up and be part of the cool club," it's a "you're born with magic and your entire life from this point on will be determined by it so deal with it" club.
Again, why are we debating the fact that templars are all Andrastian and mages aren't?
Modifié par dragonflight288, 13 juin 2013 - 12:54 .
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