1081 réponses à ce sujet

[EmperorSahlertz]

Xilizhra wrote...

The Warden also put down a Blight within a year. Blights which historically have taken decades to defeat. So obviously Blights aren't all that, or the Warden was ridiculously powerful.

Or they just caught the Archdemon early. If Riordan hadn't torn Urthemiel's wing at just the right moment, it probably would have gone on for decades.

Debatable.

Xilizhra wrote...

And Asunder was told with a heavy mage bias. It tries to villify Lambert for doing his job, of apprehending the murderer and preventing a mage rebellion.

Accurately so. Reality has a mage bias.

I disagree. The fact that there even is an ongoing discussion about the subject, serves to prove that reality has no bias on the matter. YOU have your opinion, which you would like nothing more, than to impose on everyone else. Others have theirs likewise. But, so far only YOU have the audacity to claim that your view is the natural one....

[sandalisthemaker]

How...romantic?
Now if only Templars were like this in the actual games...

[Hazegurl]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
And Asunder was told with a heavy mage bias. It tries to villify Lambert for doing his job, of apprehending the murderer and preventing a mage rebellion.

I agree, it also matches the other post about how player do get a lot of the mage perspective but hardly any templar one. I made a joke post about how a player couldn't play as a Templar in DAO but it is true, you can't play as a Templar, you have no Templar companions, they don't even give you Templar companions in a game that's all about Templar/Mage conflict. You really have to pay attention to the story to see the Templar side of it all. DA2 didn't do a very good job of balancing it out but I got the message. Asunder certainly had a heavy mage perspective, once again you have to look past the 'We need our freedom" to see that Lambert was correct.

Modifié par Hazegurl, 07 juin 2013 - 04:03 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Xilizhra wrote...

Indeed, but the tone of Asunder (some possibly problematic mages, an overall villainous Templar Order with the one good templar leaving the Order) leads me to believe that the writers will be on my side.

Yeah well, writers are poeple too and they too make horrible mistakes.

Except it's been like this ever since Origins, which was by no means rushed.

I didnt say it was rushed. I said that gameplay or balance often overshadow lore, and many players make the mistake for taking gameplay at face value as lore.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

And the mage fanatics continue b*tching on this thread, because they can't appreciate it.

[frostajulie]

LookingGlass93 wrote...

I've no doubt that good templars exist, and I've no doubt that the life of a templar can be difficult. That  doesn't stop me from wanting the templar order as a whole to be destroyed and a less totalitarian, less corrupt organisation of "mage cops" to take their place.

+1

[wolfhowwl]

Hazegurl wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
And Asunder was told with a heavy mage bias. It tries to villify Lambert for doing his job, of apprehending the murderer and preventing a mage rebellion.

I agree, it also matches the other post about how player do get a lot of the mage perspective but hardly any templar one. I made a joke post about how a player couldn't play as a Templar in DAO but it is true, you can't play as a Templar, you have no Templar companions, they don't even give you Templar companions in a game that's all about Templar/Mage conflict. You really have to pay attention to the story to see the Templar side of it all. DA2 didn't do a very good job of balancing it out but I got the message. Asunder certainly had a heavy mage perspective, once again you have to look past the 'We need our freedom" to see that Lambert was correct.

Funny how even with that heavy bias in this series it still isn't enough for some people. See the the thread "Please stop portraying templars as heroes and free mages as villians * Major spoilers*"

[KainD]

TL:DR version of the OP:

Hello I am a templar, and it is my duty to enforce social segregation of a group of people because of the way they were born. I have sacrificed my whole life to imprison and kill people that do not agree with the system, and to protect those who can't deal with others being different than them because they are selfish cowards Such is my hard life, boohoo.

Srsly, I have no empathy or regard for any templar lives what so ever.

[wolfhowwl]

KainD wrote...

TL:DR version of the OP:

Hello I am a templar, and it is my duty to enforce social segregation of a group of people because of the way they were born. I have sacrificed my whole life to imprison and kill people that do not agree with the system, and to protect those who can't deal with others being different than them because they are selfish cowards Such is my hard life, boohoo.

Srsly, I have no empathy or regard for any templar lives what so ever.

Sometimes dangerous people have to be segregated for the greater good like the Ardyat-Yakshi in Mass Effect.

Yes, it is sad that they will never have freedom just because of who they are, but we saw with Morinth the horrific bodycount that can result when they aren't controlled as we have also seen the damage that can result when a mage goes abomination.

Modifié par wolfhowwl, 07 juin 2013 - 05:49 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Filament wrote...

Legatus Arianus wrote...

And the mage fanatics continue b*tching on this thread, because they can't appreciate it.

As if Lotion et al haven't been all up in the business of every pro mage thread that ever existed.

Actually I ignore most of them, and even when I visit, I stick to the bloody topic.

[Lotion Soronarr]

KainD wrote...

TL:DR version of the OP:

Hello I am a templar, and it is my duty to enforce social segregation of a group of people because of the way they were born. I have sacrificed my whole life to imprison and kill people that do not agree with the system, and to protect those who can't deal with others being different than them because they are selfish cowards Such is my hard life, boohoo.

Srsly, I have no empathy or regard for any templar lives what so ever.

Kain...grow up man.



Can't deal with those being different?
Seriously, if you can't see that mages aren't normal people and CAN'T be compared with any existing or persecuted minority because of that, then I can't help you.

[KainD]

wolfhowwl wrote...

Sometimes dangerous people have to be segregated for the greater good like the Ardyat-Yakshi in Mass Effect.

Yes, it is sad that they will never have freedom just because of who they are, but we saw with Morinth the horrific bodycount that can result when they aren't controlled as we have also seen the damage that can result when a mage goes abomination.

No, very bad example. AY should be free, and I sided with Morinth over Samara in my canon playthrough based on my morals. 

Modifié par KainD, 07 juin 2013 - 05:57 .

[KainD]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Kain...grow up man.

Can't deal with those being different? 
Seriously, if you can't see that mages aren't normal people and CAN'T be compared with any existing or persecuted minority because of that, then I can't help you.

It is all the same principle. You destroy other people's lives, because your safety and well being is so much more important. 

[Lulupab]

That whole comparison is fail. Mages are like people with biotics but thanks to technology and help of implants they can completely control it. Imagine mages are immune to possession and charm of blood magic etc...

Ardat yakhsi can be like dreamers perhaps? Extra powerful mages.

[SeptimusMagistos]

I'll tell the letter-writing Templar the same thing I tell all evil minions who try to make me feel bad for them: if you want sympathy, stop joining evil organizations.

If he's managed to delude himself into believing that what he does is good, I'm sad for him but he is too far gone to be saved.

[Plaintiff]

KainD wrote...

wolfhowwl wrote...

Sometimes dangerous people have to be segregated for the greater good like the Ardyat-Yakshi in Mass Effect.

Yes, it is sad that they will never have freedom just because of who they are, but we saw with Morinth the horrific bodycount that can result when they aren't controlled as we have also seen the damage that can result when a mage goes abomination.

No, very bad example. AY should be free, and I sided with Morinth over Samara in my canon playthrough based on my morals. 

The Ardat-Yakshi should be free and able to live without stigma, but you realise that Morinth is a callous, remorseless serial killer who cultivates relationships specifically for the purpose of murdering her partners?

[SerTabris]

Xilizhra wrote...

Ahem, so unto the good templar thing! The only definition of a "good templar" is Knight-Commander Greagoir, the man is dutiful and is something all other templars should strive for, he may be an opressor but he only does it for sake of the common people and protects them and the mages.

Intentions don't matter much in this case. Also note that he's known for physically abusing pregnant women.

When was this? I don't recall anything like that. Then again, I remember very little of Greagoir outside of talking to him at the Circle Tower entrance for Broken Circle.

[Xilizhra]

I agree, it also matches the other post about how player do get a lot of the mage perspective but hardly any templar one. I made a joke post about how a player couldn't play as a Templar in DAO but it is true, you can't play as a Templar, you have no Templar companions, they don't even give you Templar companions in a game that's all about Templar/Mage conflict. You really have to pay attention to the story to see the Templar side of it all. DA2 didn't do a very good job of balancing it out but I got the message. Asunder certainly had a heavy mage perspective, once again you have to look past the 'We need our freedom" to see that Lambert was correct.

Lambert was painfully and repeatedly wrong about almost everything.

Yeah well, writers are poeple too and they too make horrible mistakes.

And yet, it's their world, and continues as a rather constant picture. The templars as a faction are inherently unsympathetic, and both should and likely will remain so.

I didnt say it was rushed. I said that gameplay or balance often overshadow lore, and many players make the mistake for taking gameplay at face value as lore.

It'd be trivially easy to not include abominations as mooks if avoiding it was all that intended by lore.

I think it is actually not a bad letter to show the moderate templar point of view.

I actually agree, especially for showing just how bad even the moderates are.

When was this? I don't recall anything like that. Then again, I remember
very little of Greagoir outside of talking to him at the Circle Tower
entrance for Broken Circle.

It was in one of the comics.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 07 juin 2013 - 06:14 .

[Sir JK]

I just don't understand why it's so terribly important that those of us that enjoy the moral conflict and (what we percieve as) difficult questions can't have things like this? Where's the harm in a few human(e) templars?

[Hazegurl]

wolfhowwl wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
And Asunder was told with a heavy mage bias. It tries to villify Lambert for doing his job, of apprehending the murderer and preventing a mage rebellion.

I agree, it also matches the other post about how player do get a lot of the mage perspective but hardly any templar one. I made a joke post about how a player couldn't play as a Templar in DAO but it is true, you can't play as a Templar, you have no Templar companions, they don't even give you Templar companions in a game that's all about Templar/Mage conflict. You really have to pay attention to the story to see the Templar side of it all. DA2 didn't do a very good job of balancing it out but I got the message. Asunder certainly had a heavy mage perspective, once again you have to look past the 'We need our freedom" to see that Lambert was correct.

Funny how even with that heavy bias in this series it still isn't enough for some people. See the the thread "Please stop portraying templars as heroes and free mages as villians * Major spoilers*"

I don't think they'll be happy unless ALL Templars are seen as evil and ALL mages are seen as righeous and good in their actions. Heaven forbid if anyone has a different opinion or worse made different in game choices than them. :D

[MisterJB]

Sir JK wrote...

I just don't understand why it's so terribly important that those of us that enjoy the moral conflict and (what we percieve as) difficult questions can't have things like this? Where's the harm in a few human(e) templars?

Just like some people need absolutely  everyone they meet to love them, some people can't support the idea of a dissenting, but just as valid, opinion. It's a sign of insecurity, really.

Modifié par MisterJB, 07 juin 2013 - 06:39 .

[lil yonce]

They have no charity for the templar viewpoint and wish everyone conform to their morality.