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[Seival]

"If the essence of life is information carried in DNA, then society and civilization are just colossal memory systems and a metropolis like this one, simply a sprawling external memory."

This idea from the GITS: Innocence... it's genius. And recently I imagined - what if the Catalyst would say something like that?...

...Well, actually it said something like that, but differently. A Reaper is not just a harvester made of harvested lives. It is also a storage of colossal memory systems. Contained essence of life... in other words - preserved life. This means the Catalyst preserved life in each Cycle in two ways: made sure the new life will flourish, and the harvested lives were not wasted.

To be harvested by the Reapers is not to be killed.
The essence of Harvested people is still alive, preserved in the Reaper form.
Killing a Reaper is a crime. Crime equal to the genocide. And total disrespect of the ones who came before us.

Modifié par Seival, 06 juin 2013 - 09:31 .

[Jukaga]

What is this, your 100th thread saying the same thing? I buy into the 'genetic memory' theme in ME, because we have to accept other impossible premises like the whole Mass Effect technology to enjoy the story and universe but I hope you know that no reputable scientist supports the 'gene memory' theory. I'm sorry but it is impossible for memories to be stored in DNA or RNA.

But let's put that aside, in MEU it clearly does exist. To claim that having your biological matter rendered down to a state that can be indefinitely stored and accessed is not death is frankly wrong. Those harvested people are not alive, only a record of their existence is preserved.

When Javik reads residue on the Normandy, he is seeing echoes and impressions of those people not actually communicating with them. The harvested beings in a reaper shell are dead, full stop. Their information is still accessible but not as distinct sentient beings, they are gone.

But as the Reapers are clearly a distinct hybrid organic/synthetic life form you are correct in branding the killing of reapers genocide, but it is entirely justifiable genocide and one that I suspect the vast majority of dead harvested beings would thank you for if they were able to.

[DeathScepter]

Just curious about Each a nation mentioned by Soverigan and Several Minds/Programs by Legions.

[Ultimate Pheer]

Technically, it IS possible to encode data onto DNA.

It's expensive as hell, serves no practical purpose, and cannot be changed once encoded, but it is possible.

Hang on, I think I have a link related to this Right Here.

(Don't worry, it gets to information about encoding data into DNA soon enough)

Modifié par Ultimate Pheer, 06 juin 2013 - 09:47 .

[AlexMBrennan]

This idea from the GITS: Innocence... it's genius

The technical term is "bovine excrement". Come on - whoever spouts that nonsense is a made-up entity relative to both our and the Mass Effect universe, so how could it possibly be relevant?

[Fixers0]

Please explain to me (with logical reasing that is both sound and valid) how giant robots filled with organic goo equal life.

Besides, Since when does DNA carries memories?

[Seival]

Jukaga wrote...

What is this, your 100th thread saying the same thing? I buy into the 'genetic memory' theme in ME, because we have to accept other impossible premises like the whole Mass Effect technology to enjoy the story and universe but I hope you know that no reputable scientist supports the 'gene memory' theory. I'm sorry but it is impossible for memories to be stored in DNA or RNA.

But let's put that aside, in MEU it clearly does exist. To claim that having your biological matter rendered down to a state that can be indefinitely stored and accessed is not death is frankly wrong. Those harvested people are not alive, only a record of their existence is preserved.

When Javik reads residue on the Normandy, he is seeing echoes and impressions of those people not actually communicating with them. The harvested beings in a reaper shell are dead, full stop. Their information is still accessible but not as distinct sentient beings, they are gone.

But as the Reapers are clearly a distinct hybrid organic/synthetic life form you are correct in branding the killing of reapers genocide, but it is entirely justifiable genocide and one that I suspect the vast majority of dead harvested beings would thank you for if they were able to.

In my ethics there is no such thing as "justifiable genocide".

[ShepnTali]

Dead reapers, baby.

[Fixers0]

Seival wrote...

In my ethics there is no such thing as "justifiable genocide".

Except no genocide takes presence at all.

[AresKeith]

The only good Reapers are dead Reapers

[Ultimate Pheer]

Seival wrote...

Jukaga wrote...

What is this, your 100th thread saying the same thing? I buy into the 'genetic memory' theme in ME, because we have to accept other impossible premises like the whole Mass Effect technology to enjoy the story and universe but I hope you know that no reputable scientist supports the 'gene memory' theory. I'm sorry but it is impossible for memories to be stored in DNA or RNA.

But let's put that aside, in MEU it clearly does exist. To claim that having your biological matter rendered down to a state that can be indefinitely stored and accessed is not death is frankly wrong. Those harvested people are not alive, only a record of their existence is preserved.

When Javik reads residue on the Normandy, he is seeing echoes and impressions of those people not actually communicating with them. The harvested beings in a reaper shell are dead, full stop. Their information is still accessible but not as distinct sentient beings, they are gone.

But as the Reapers are clearly a distinct hybrid organic/synthetic life form you are correct in branding the killing of reapers genocide, but it is entirely justifiable genocide and one that I suspect the vast majority of dead harvested beings would thank you for if they were able to.

In my ethics there is no such thing as "justifiable genocide".

You would change your tune fast if you met a Dalek.

In essence, each reaper is a massive, mobile, database full of the genetic material, and anything encoded into the DNA of harvested species.

Given that they got to this point by repeatedly mass murdering entire races and melting them down for their genetic material, I would less call it 'Genocide' And more Call it 'Vengeance and liberation.'

Of course, it doesn't matter- my headcanon has an entirely different ending where destroy only kills the reapers and shepard with low enough war assets.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

I really like the title.

And I would have loved it if the Mass Effect series had delved much more seriously into the topic, for better and for worse. It's the kind of idea that has a natural home in science fiction.

[Jukaga]

Seival wrote...
In my ethics there is no such thing as "justifiable genocide".

Fair enough. When I weigh the future of all sentient beings with the freedom to self-determine their destinies vs. imposing a whole new order of existence without knowledge or consent of those it's being imposed on, I find I value freedom more.

Luckily, this is just a game and depending on my Shepard's motivations have found closure and satisfaction in all three endings.

[Seival]

Fixers0 wrote...

Please explain to me (with logical reasing that is both sound and valid) how giant robots filled with organic goo equal life.

Besides, Since when does DNA carries memories?

Since when a baby fallen down into the river instinctively holds the breath even through it "doesn't know" that you can't breath underwater? We can't even imagine what exactly DNA may store in reality, and how to access all of this knowledge. But in MEU, considering Synthesis outcome, we can say that DNA stores much more than just forms and basic instincts.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

The idea is at the heart of movies like Akira, Ghost in the Machine, and The Matrix. Some of the most interesting science fiction has been made because of questions stemming from the idea.

[Yougotcarved1]

Fixers0 wrote...

Besides, Since when does DNA carries memories?

Did you not play Assassin's Creed?!

[AresKeith]

Yougotcarved1 wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Besides, Since when does DNA carries memories?

Did you not play Assassin's Creed?!

Doesn't the clone in Citadel DLC contradicts this because he doesn't have Shepard's memories but had to download them

Modifié par AresKeith, 06 juin 2013 - 10:19 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

So Seival, let me get this straight. It's okay for the Reapers to commit genocide on us, but it's not okay for us to commit "genocide" on the Reapers?

In effect, they have murdered me with extreme prejudice. I am no longer me once they have "processed" me, Seival. That is the flaw in your logic. They are killing machines. They need to be terminated permanently, as does their Starbrat.

Extending that idea to the reapers is a corruption.

[Ultimate Pheer]

Yougotcarved1 wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

Besides, Since when does DNA carries memories?

Did you not play Assassin's Creed?!

Once again, I post a video to use science to prove that we can actually do this right now.

Haha, SCIENCE!

[AlexMBrennan]

Since when a baby fallen down into the river instinctively holds the breath even through it "doesn't know" that you can't breath underwater?

You are confusing reflex and conscious action.

We can't even imagine what exactly DNA may store in reality, and how to access all of this knowledge.

Have you been hiding under a rock for the last decade? 

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 06 juin 2013 - 10:21 .

[Seival]

Jeremiah12LGeek wrote...

The idea is at the heart of movies like Akira, Ghost in the Machine, and The Matrix. Some of the most interesting science fiction has been made because of questions stemming from the idea.

And I believe that BioWare is one of our greatest hopes for the future of stories like that, more over - stories told in role playing game format which is much better than a book or a movie.

Modifié par Seival, 06 juin 2013 - 10:26 .

[Nerevar-as]

Please don´t compare GitS with that **** of Starbrat. It hurts.

And no, Motoko wouldn´t pick green nor blue, before anybody brings the Puppeteer or whatever it was called in English to the table.

[Grandiam]

I really think this should be obvious, "the harvest" is the essentially the same way we harvest crops.
We sow seeds and use fertilizer (the relays and the Citadel) wait until the "crops" are ripe enough, then we get in our tractors and harvest our crop for that season.

The Reapers harvest galactic life before organics can create an AI that will eventually overtake them technologically. The AI won't recognize organics as anything other than ants (similar to how we see animals) so if organics interfere or get in the way of this super-AI's interests then it would crush them, and more than likely all organic life, because of the fundamental difference between organic and synthetic life.

Also, if it isn't a super-AI then it's an organic civilization like the Protheans that would enslave any other organic civilization.

But people are stupid and think the Catalyst's solution is wrong so destroying the Reapers is only "logical" and by extension destroying the Reapers is also destroying the entire history of the galaxy, losing whatever may have been unique to the cycles that came before the current one.
The Reapers collect the history of every civilization they harvest and preserve them, until the Catalyst can devise a better solution to the organic/synthetic dilemma.