926 réponses à ce sujet

[AresKeith]

Gewehr_fr wrote...

I've been thinking about something...

By your reasoning enslaved races, therefore Leviathans, will be freed post synthesis and will recover their initial mindset... right ?

From meeting them face to face, they aren't exactly sweet puppies, they didn't seem very kind or honorable, or expressing any form of empathy. They were as a matter of fact using the races of their cycles as puppets, watching over them and manipulating them to their will.

So.. basically by choosing Synthesis you're condemning the whole galaxy to a whole new reign of enslavement and indoctrination by the leviathans, aren't you ?

Or is there something I'm missing here ?

No, you pretty much got Seival's headcanon that he calls "facts" down

[The Night Mammoth]

Assuming any of this is right (the Reapers don't kill people) and ignoring the fact that there's almost no notable difference between being 'uploaded' and being outright killed, why should anyone be concerned over this? It's not like Shepard's a pacifist or in any way shy about doing what needs to be done, so what makes the Reapers any different than say, all those mercs we slaughtered our way through in ME2 at various points?

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Gewehr_fr wrote...

I've been thinking about something...

By your reasoning enslaved races, therefore Leviathans, will be freed post synthesis and will recover their initial mindset... right ?

From meeting them face to face, they aren't exactly sweet puppies, they didn't seem very kind or honorable, or expressing any form of empathy. They were as a matter of fact using the races of their cycles as puppets, watching over them and manipulating them to their will.

So.. basically by choosing Synthesis you're condemning the whole galaxy to a whole new reign of enslavement and indoctrination by the leviathans, aren't you ?

Or is there something I'm missing here ?

Welcome to the beauty of a Seival thread. To him, all of that is a good thing.

[KaiserShep]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Assuming any of this is right (the Reapers don't kill people) and ignoring the fact that there's almost no notable difference between being 'uploaded' and being outright killed, why should anyone be concerned over this? It's not like Shepard's a pacifist or in any way shy about doing what needs to be done, so what makes the Reapers any different than say, all those mercs we slaughtered our way through in ME2 at various points?

Pretty much. In Shepard's shoes, you already mowed through countless bodies of every random scumbag the galaxy has to offer. If some abominable monsters made of the "living" material of countless mutilated beings is within my sights, why should I have any qualms with undoing their existence? In ME, I turned off the life support of a man alone on a ship when I hear the log that there's no way to revive him. There's no way to reconstitute the bodies and minds of the people who were processed into the reaper erector set, so why would it be a problem to pull the plug on them as well? 

Modifié par KaiserShep, 07 juin 2013 - 10:43 .

[The Night Mammoth]

AresKeith wrote...

Gewehr_fr wrote...

I've been thinking about something...

By your reasoning enslaved races, therefore Leviathans, will be freed post synthesis and will recover their initial mindset... right ?

From meeting them face to face, they aren't exactly sweet puppies, they didn't seem very kind or honorable, or expressing any form of empathy. They were as a matter of fact using the races of their cycles as puppets, watching over them and manipulating them to their will.

So.. basically by choosing Synthesis you're condemning the whole galaxy to a whole new reign of enslavement and indoctrination by the leviathans, aren't you ?

Or is there something I'm missing here ?

No, you pretty much got Seival's headcanon that he calls "facts" down

Yep. This is a 'good thing', apparently, because the Leviathans are so wise and noble.

They definitely didn't enslave entire species and were so filled with hubris that they almost wiped themselves out, and then spent the next billion years hiding and manipulating from the shadows because they were so cowardly. 

[The Night Mammoth]

KaiserShep wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Assuming any of this is right (the Reapers don't kill people) and ignoring the fact that there's almost no notable difference between being 'uploaded' and being outright killed, why should anyone be concerned over this? It's not like Shepard's a pacifist or in any way shy about doing what needs to be done, so what makes the Reapers any different than say, all those mercs we slaughtered our way through in ME2 at various points?

Pretty much. In Shepard's shoes, you already mowed through countless bodies of every random scumbag the galaxy has to offer. If some abominable monsters made of the "living" material of countless mutilated beings is within my sights, why should I have any qualms with undoing their existence? 

And why do the Reapers deserve to be preserved? It's okay for them to kill us but not for us to kill them, just because they're the accumulated hard data of past cycles? That's like not stopping a person from killing you because he has more money that you. 

Actually, money is useful, that's a poor analogy. It's like not stopping a person from killing you because they're wearing nice socks. 

Before someone (Auld Wulf) goes into a rage about how the Reapers are just victims of the Catalyst, no I don't believe they're just mind controlled slaves, the idea that the Catalyst built the Reapers as individuals of some description, with the potential ability to rebel, and then bent them to its will instead of just making them as creating them as servants from the start and by-passing that whole issue, makes no sense at all. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 08 juin 2013 - 12:24 .

[KaiserShep]

Catalyst: Hey Sovy, wanna kill organics to save them from synthetics?

Sovereign:Oh boy, do I!

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Assuming that cellular memory is applied as an element of the definition of life, and assuming that all life shall, as a consequence of cellular memory, form a continuity of change and evolution, it would make sense to interpret the Synthesis ending as part of the progression and evolution of life.

What wouldn't make sense:

- Assuming that a contemporary scientific theory or science fiction concept justifies one ending as preferable over another for anyone but yourself.

- Assuming that a contemporary scientific theory or science fiction concept makes one ending "correct" or another "incorrect."

- Assuming that said conclusions would (or should) in any way determine how another should experience a work of fiction that was specifically designed to chain continuity of the basis of character and story decisions made at an individual level.

But, because the subject and concept are both quite fascinating to me, I would like to ask the Original Poster of the Original Post one specific question about the thread's title:

External to what, exactly? 

[Seival]

Ravensword wrote...

More words from Seival:

Seival wrote...

Restart the Cycled Harvests. This is one of the most effective solutions that was tried on practice and proved itself as being valid. It might be not obsolete.

Source: http://social.biowar.../index/12263044

So, you see the list of options possible after Control, choose the worst one, and present it as if I was a fan of it.

Let's see the full list ok?

Apply Synthesis. This is still possible. Crucible is in place, Shepard's essence was already harvested, Citadel is intact, and Mass Relays were repaired. Everything Catalyst needs is to recharge the Crucible. Why apply Synthesis later? Because Catalyst gained a chance to study it, and prepare galactic civilization, so Synthesis will be applied in much more constructive manner.

Remain as a guardian. Act as some kind of galactic overseer, always interfering with galactic civilization development, and preventing all major conflicts. Why not? This can be done forever, even through galactic civilization and the Reapers will stagnate.

Restart the Cycled Harvests. This is one of the most effective solutions that was tried on practice and proved itself as being valid. It might be not obsolete. What does your Catalyst think about it?

Go away and never come back. Why should anyone bother protecting galactic civilizations at all? Let them develop themselves, and if they destroy themselves in the process - then so be it. It would be their own fault... Pitiful fools.

And I said it a lot of times, that my favorite option is to apply Synthesis after Control. Is it so hard to remember that, if you really follow my threads? Providing a list of possible options doesn't mean I like them all.

From this moment, I will report all people who intentionally corrupt my ideas and post them as personal attacks. There is nothing personal in such reaction. Just an attempt to bring order to the forums.

Modifié par Seival, 08 juin 2013 - 12:11 .

[xlegionx]

Seival wrote...


From this moment, I will report all people who intentionally corrupt my ideas and post them as personal attacks. There is nothing personal in such reaction. Just an attempt to bring order to the forums.

Speaking of bringing order to the forums, we may have lost a great friend today: social.bioware.com/3785406/blog/233369

I am heartbroken

Modifié par xlegionx, 08 juin 2013 - 12:12 .

[IceHawk-181]

@Seival -- See TOS # 11

Modifié par IceHawk-181, 08 juin 2013 - 12:17 .

[Tron Mega]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Wait, can people even die after synthesis? They can have kids and the green beam cures the genophage, but can they die from old age?

ive heard even dead people come back to life if you choose synthesis.

its weird trying to argue about a game that the only thing i have to go off of is headcannon or twitter cannon.

id rather go with the headcanon.

[Seival]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

So Seival, let me get this straight. It's okay for the Reapers to commit genocide on us, but it's not okay for us to commit "genocide" on the Reapers?

Harvest can't be called genocide, because the harvested lives were not gone forever. They can be restored and even improved, if you will make corresponding choice.

My ethics can't tolerate "death for the death" judgement. So even if someone committed genocide of my kind... this doesn't give me the right to commit genocide in reply.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

xlegionx wrote...

Seival wrote...


From this moment, I will report all people who intentionally corrupt my ideas and post them as personal attacks. There is nothing personal in such reaction. Just an attempt to bring order to the forums.

Speaking of bringing order to the forums, we may have lost a great friend today: social.bioware.com/3785406/blog/233369

I am heartbroken

Seival is just going to report people for misrepresenting his headcanon now. Awesome.

He'll end up like dear Auld Wulf for that.

[Ticonderoga117]

Seival wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

So Seival, let me get this straight. It's okay for the Reapers to commit genocide on us, but it's not okay for us to commit "genocide" on the Reapers?

Harvest can't be called genocide, because the harvested lives were not gone forever. They can be restored and even improved, if you will make corresponding choice.

My ethics can't tolerate "death for the death" judgement. So even if someone committed genocide of my kind... this doesn't give me the right to commit genocide in reply.

Bull****. You get zapped by a giant laser, or blended, or turned into a techno-zombie, and that's it. You, are gone. Your body may remain, your memories might be on call for the Reapers, but you, your personality, is GONE. Snuffed out because a stupid AI went batty.

[Ravensword]

Seival, do you have any evidence of what you say that comes from the lore itself and not your own headcanon?

Modifié par Ravensword, 08 juin 2013 - 12:58 .

[Ticonderoga117]

Ravensword wrote...

Seival, do you have any evidence of what you say that comes from the lore itself and not your own headcanon?

Oh, this oughta be good.

[Dextro Milk]

Ravensword wrote...

Seival, do you have any evidence of what you say that comes from the lore itself and not your own headcanon?

*Sips glass of milk*

Gotta love that headcanon... 

[AresKeith]

Ravensword wrote...

Seival, do you have any evidence of what you say that comes from the lore itself and not your own headcanon?

You have to drink his green Kool-Aid first

[IceHawk-181]

Ravensword wrote...

Seival, do you have any evidence of what you say that comes from the lore itself and not your own headcanon?

I am also interested in this answer...

[Dextro Milk]

IceHawk-181 wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

Seival, do you have any evidence of what you say that comes from the lore itself and not your own headcanon?

I am also interested in this answer...

Don't hold your breath...

[Vigilant111]

@OP: If what you said is the case then the reapers are even more despicable than portrayed: they couldn't even leave the dead in peace, keep the dead in a virtual prison against their will, and there is no way ascertain the memories of the dead are not pried into to extract information that is beneficial to the reapers

[Big Bad]

Seival wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

So Seival, let me get this straight. It's okay for the Reapers to commit genocide on us, but it's not okay for us to commit "genocide" on the Reapers?

Harvest can't be called genocide, because the harvested lives were not gone forever. They can be restored and even improved, if you will make corresponding choice.

My ethics can't tolerate "death for the death" judgement. So even if someone committed genocide of my kind... this doesn't give me the right to commit genocide in reply.

What about the many, many species who are killed but not "preserved" in reaper form?  They are in fact gone forever.  They have been systematically eradicated to the point of extinction.   Another word for that would be....genocide. 

[Asharad Hett]

What about Jenkins? He was murdered.

[Ravensword]

Big Bad wrote...

Seival wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

So Seival, let me get this straight. It's okay for the Reapers to commit genocide on us, but it's not okay for us to commit "genocide" on the Reapers?

Harvest can't be called genocide, because the harvested lives were not gone forever. They can be restored and even improved, if you will make corresponding choice.

My ethics can't tolerate "death for the death" judgement. So even if someone committed genocide of my kind... this doesn't give me the right to commit genocide in reply.

What about the many, many species who are killed but not "preserved" in reaper form?  They are in fact gone forever.  They have been systematically eradicated to the point of extinction.   Another word for that would be....genocide. 

The inconvenient nature of your inquiry will not get a reply from Seival.