926 réponses à ce sujet

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Seival wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Seival wrote...

Arcian wrote...

I just found this Seival gem from a year ago:

(3) Choosing synthesis is very strange. Final stage of evolution? Nonsence. Mass Releys were destroyed. But sooner or later people will invent them again, and sepatated colonies will start to fight eachother. Again synthetcs, but they will fight half-synthetics who made them... Again Reapers, again Citadel. Again same story with different faces.

When did your opinion change, Mr. Synthesis-is-the-solution-to-all-the-galaxy's-problems?

After I actually started to think about Synthesis meaning, obviously.

Like I said, haters' problem with the Synthesis is only in lack of understanding of Synthesis concept.

People get the concept of Synthesis just fine we just don't like Bioware's version, and this may shock you but some of the people who don't like "Bioware Synthesis" aren't against the concept of it

Then stop complaining about it, and stop trolling the Synthesis fans, please.

No, I won't stop complaining about it. It's a horrifying showing of what the writers and developers at BW think of as a good idea, both for the stories they create and in the themes they wish to show.

And I'm not trolling you.

I'm rejecting your idea's as non-sense since they're based off of facts that you create about something.

If anyone is trolling, it's you. You're the one who's coming in here and telling everyone that you have everything right and that they should all listen to you and embrace your vision. That everyone is wrong for killing the Reapers. That everyone is wrong for using critical thinking and rational thought. That everyone is wrong for choosing to make up their own mind.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

I find myself wondering if indoctrination is real. 

And I chose Synthesis. 

Modifié par Jeremiah12LGeek, 08 juin 2013 - 10:42 .

[IceHawk-181]

Sieval, did you?

None of the arguments you are making were stated anywhere in either the Catalyst dialoge or the EC-Synthesis Ending.

I just watched it, twice.

The Catalyst has this to say about Reapers:
"The Reapers are the synthetic representation of my creators."
"We harvest your bodies, your knowledge, your creations. We preserve it to be reborn in the form of a new Reaper."

And EDI states that the Reapers bring the knowledge of past civilizations.

Period.

Please quote me the direct canon evidence you are drawing this from.

[Ticonderoga117]

Seival wrote...
Your point of view contradicts Synthesis epilogue. Did you even watch EC Synthesis? If you did, then you understood nothing.

Let's see. Everyone is turned into a Cyborg, whether or not they think that's a great idea. That also includes all plants and animals and the occasional hat.

Then the REAPERS are still around. These beings who indoctrinate by simply being and now we can all be hacked by them through our fancy new cybernetics.

And now, with all of this new tech, we are all going to die a horrible death. Remember, another "theme" that was in Mass Effect was that over advancement seems to lead to very bad things. The Krogan were uplifted by the Salarians and then promptly nuked themselves beyond the Stone Age.

So, it's either "ALL HAIL our new REAPER OVERLORDS!" or we all kill ourselves through some new tech virus or something.

It's is you who has not looked past the surface of this "Brave New World" to see the horror that lies beneath.

[xlegionx]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Seival wrote...
Your point of view contradicts Synthesis epilogue. Did you even watch EC Synthesis? If you did, then you understood nothing.

Let's see. Everyone is turned into a Cyborg, whether or not they think that's a great idea. That also includes all plants and animals and the occasional hat.

Then the REAPERS are still around. These beings who indoctrinate by simply being and now we can all be hacked by them through our fancy new cybernetics.

And now, with all of this new tech, we are all going to die a horrible death. Remember, another "theme" that was in Mass Effect was that over advancement seems to lead to very bad things. The Krogan were uplifted by the Salarians and then promptly nuked themselves beyond the Stone Age.

So, it's either "ALL HAIL our new REAPER OVERLORDS!" or we all kill ourselves through some new tech virus or something.

It's is you who has not looked past the surface of this "Brave New World" to see the horror that lies beneath.

The krogan actually nuked themselves before the salarians found them

Modifié par xlegionx, 08 juin 2013 - 10:50 .

[Seival]

IceHawk-181 wrote...

Seival, nothing in the canon indicates resurrection of the dead is possible, in any ending.

The major conflicts of the MEU are canonically solved by Shepard in the formation of the Victory Fleet.

If you would like to argue that point, by all means, quote the canon and prove it.

Synthesis ending shows that even husks became self-aware.
Synthesis ending shows that ex-Reapars shared the knowledge of harvested races they were made of.
Unlike Destroy, this can be called resurrection.
If  you disagree with said above, then you didn't watch EC Synthesis, or just trolling.

The "Victory Fleet" just postponed all major conflicts. And battle for Rannoch, for example, proves that perfectly... Don't tell me about achieved peace. Quarians could avoid attacking the Geth on Rannoch at first place, but they didn't. Without Synthesis this conflict will happen again, and next time there will be no Shepard to stop them, or they will just don't listen to reason anymore.

[KaiserShep]

Seival wrote...

Who exactly are you talking about? Protheans? They were converted into Collectors, so they didn't gone forever. Remaining Collectors will be affected by Synthesis just like everyone else, obviously.

1. The Protheans numbered in the billions and had a vast empire. The Collectors, being so rare and living entirely in one space station makes them a very tiny fraction of that population. 

2. The reapers failed to birth a new reaper from the protheans. 

Given what we know of the purpose of making a new reaper in the first place, we can determine that not only did the reapers render their species functionally extinct (now that we know Javik exists), but that the reapers didn't even preserve any original generic material. EDI makes this pretty clear when we get to the collector ship. The awakened collectors are a multiplayer gimmick that doesn't exist in the canon of the story, I'm afraid. They are not even shown in the synthesis epilogue. And even if there's a trace of their identity left, the reapers clearly showed no intention of using these prothean-derived drones for anything other than raiding and gathering more people to process into building material. You also conveniently ignore the fact that the reapers incinerate people in droves to stop any resistance. That alone qualifies as genocide. They do not protect life; they merely perverse it with cosmically misguided "good intentions".

[KaiserShep]

Seival, it seems as though your head-canon is driven primarily by cynicism. The narrative of the story before we meet the catalyst contradicts everything you claim.

[IceHawk-181]

Seival wrote...

IceHawk-181 wrote...

Seival, nothing in the canon indicates resurrection of the dead is possible, in any ending.

The major conflicts of the MEU are canonically solved by Shepard in the formation of the Victory Fleet.

If you would like to argue that point, by all means, quote the canon and prove it.

Synthesis ending shows that even husks became self-aware.
Synthesis ending shows that ex-Reapars shared the knowledge of harvested races they were made of.
Unlike Destroy, this can be called resurrection.
If  you disagree with said above, then you didn't watch EC Synthesis, or just trolling.

The Husks did become self-aware, conceeded. Whether or not they are the original individual or simply an independent intelligence disconnected from the person they were before has absolutely no comment in the Ending, period. This is head-canon.
 
Sharing knowledge is not the same thing as resurrecting an individual. We share the knowledge of past civilizations every day, it's my job, but that does not mean I give the Americans of the Revolution a rebirth every time I start the semester anew.
 
Your interpretation that the Reaper's sharing schematics for technology developed by a race that was wiped out 50,000+ years ago equates to literal resurrection is completely irrational and devoid of logical basis.
 
So please, let's try this again.
 
Quote the Canon to support your argument.

Seival wrote...
The "Victory Fleet" just postponed all major conflicts. And battle for Rannoch, for example, proves that perfectly... Don't tell me about achieved peace. Quarians could avoid attacking the Geth on Rannoch at first place, but they didn't. Without Synthesis this conflict will happen again, and next time there will be no Shepard to stop them, or they will just don't listen to reason anymore.

In other words, since conflict is an inherent concomitant reality of existence we should just always assume that peace is a lie?
 
The Sith Forums are on the other Bioware site buddy.

Modifié par IceHawk-181, 08 juin 2013 - 11:02 .

[Ticonderoga117]

xlegionx wrote...

The krogan actually nuked themselves before the salarians found them

Errr...

>.>
<.<

Still going with Mordin on this though. Advancement too soon is bad.

[IceHawk-181]

Also, if the Husks post-Synthesis are the original people...imagine the psychological torture of realizing that you were a tool for the mass genocide of millions of innocents...

Such a brave new world.

Modifié par IceHawk-181, 08 juin 2013 - 11:05 .

[Seival]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Seival wrote...
Your point of view contradicts Synthesis epilogue. Did you even watch EC Synthesis? If you did, then you understood nothing.

Let's see. Everyone is turned into a Cyborg, whether or not they think that's a great idea. That also includes all plants and animals and the occasional hat.

Then the REAPERS are still around. These beings who indoctrinate by simply being and now we can all be hacked by them through our fancy new cybernetics.

And now, with all of this new tech, we are all going to die a horrible death. Remember, another "theme" that was in Mass Effect was that over advancement seems to lead to very bad things. The Krogan were uplifted by the Salarians and then promptly nuked themselves beyond the Stone Age.

So, it's either "ALL HAIL our new REAPER OVERLORDS!" or we all kill ourselves through some new tech virus or something.

It's is you who has not looked past the surface of this "Brave New World" to see the horror that lies beneath.

After Synthesis:
(1) Organics became fully integrated with synthetic technologies, which means they need no synthetic implants anymore. In addition, that doesn't mean organics became half-synthetics or just synthetics. Instead that means organic "hardware" became advanced enough to have some of powerful properties of synthetic hardware. Organics remained organics, but become evolved. We see no synthetic materials crawling inside organic beings in Synthesis ending.
(2) Synthetics gained full understanding of organics' way of thinking and emotions, i.e. stop being completely alien to organics.
(3) Reaper ships, husks, and VIs became self-aware. Ex-Reapers shared the knowledge of races they were made of.

You can see all of this in EC Synthesis. You should watch it at least once without refusing what are you actually looking at.

[xlegionx]

The conversation with Mordin I mentioned earlier:

youtu.be/VJIQfmWx3dI

Modifié par xlegionx, 08 juin 2013 - 11:07 .

[KaiserShep]

What about the brutes? They have turian heads and krogan rear ends. Needless to say that is a troubling state to wake up in. The epilogue conveniently overlooks the worst of the reapers' monsters, because there's no way to recover them. 

Modifié par KaiserShep, 08 juin 2013 - 11:10 .

[IceHawk-181]

Congratulations on a post actually based in the canon! Kudos to you.

Although you forgot the part where the Catalyst explicitly stated that Organics and Synthetics are fundamentally altered on a genetic level, to the point of being based on a "new DNA" and are no longer technically organic.

[Big Bad]

KaiserShep wrote...

Seival wrote...

Who exactly are you talking about? Protheans? They were converted into Collectors, so they didn't gone forever. Remaining Collectors will be affected by Synthesis just like everyone else, obviously.

1. The Protheans numbered in the billions and had a vast empire. The Collectors, being so rare and living entirely in one space station makes them a very tiny fraction of that population. 

2. The reapers failed to birth a new reaper from the protheans. 

Given what we know of the purpose of making a new reaper in the first place, we can determine that not only did the reapers render their species functionally extinct (now that we know Javik exists), but that the reapers didn't even preserve any original generic material. EDI makes this pretty clear when we get to the collector ship. The awakened collectors are a multiplayer gimmick that doesn't exist in the canon of the story, I'm afraid. They are not even shown in the synthesis epilogue. And even if there's a trace of their identity left, the reapers clearly showed no intention of using these prothean-derived drones for anything other than raiding and gathering more people to process into building material. You also conveniently ignore the fact that the reapers incinerate people in droves to stop any resistance. That alone qualifies as genocide. They do not protect life; they merely perverse it with cosmically misguided "good intentions".

Not to mention that the Prothean Empire was made up of many species, Javik's only being the most dominant.  These were not turned into Collectors and are gone. 

Also, don't forget the many non-sentient species that would invariably be lost simply due to the fact that forcibly harvesting the galaxy is mind-bogglingly destructive process. 

[AresKeith]

KaiserShep wrote...

What about the brutes? They have turian heads and krogan rear ends. Needless to say that is a troubling state to wake up in.

If something like that happened to me, I would want someone to put me out of my misery

[Seival]

KaiserShep wrote...

What about the brutes? They have turian heads and krogan rear ends. Needless to say that is a troubling state to wake up in.

The ex-Reaper-ships are many voices contained in one vessel, and I see no troubles with them in EC Synthesis. So, brutes will not have any troubles too.

Modifié par Seival, 08 juin 2013 - 11:12 .

[IceHawk-181]

Nice assumption...care to explain how you can come to that conclusion based on a few scenes of Reapers walking around and fixing things?

[KaiserShep]

So the brutes become two guys trapped forever in a monster costume. Seems legit.

Seival, there's no way around the horrible implications of minds reawakening in the abominations the reapers produced to wage war with. 

Modifié par KaiserShep, 08 juin 2013 - 11:15 .

[Ticonderoga117]

Seival wrote...
After Synthesis:
(1) Organics became fully integrated with synthetic technologies, which means they need no synthetic implants anymore. In addition, that doesn't mean organics became half-synthetics or just synthetics. Instead that means organic "hardware" became advanced enough to have some of powerful properties of synthetic hardware. Organics remained organics, but become evolved. We see no synthetic materials crawling inside organic beings in Synthesis ending.
(2) Synthetics gained full understanding of organics' way of thinking and emotions, i.e. stop being completely alien to organics.
(3) Reaper ships, husks, and VIs became self-aware. Ex-Reapers shared the knowledge of races they were made of.

You can see all of this in EC Synthesis. You should watch it at least once without refusing what are you actually looking at.

1. What? We become fully integrated with synthetic tech... yet don't need synthetic tech. Think that one over. Nevermind radiation exposre like that could not force a directed change like that, nor would the change be that quick. Wrong and stupid.
2. And that solves what? Nevermind it makes no sense. The Catalyst doesn't understand the simple concept of "being alive" nevermind complex emotions like love. And I have to ask again, how does radiation do that?
3. Reapers already were self-aware. They don't like us; see Harby and Sovereign. Husks are zombies with everything replaces by tech. You can't save them. VI's can't become self-aware because they are the future's version of Google! Not too mention it doesn't mention that ANYWHERE.

Most of this stuff you mention isn't there! It's delusion. The rest doesn't make sense.

[KaiserShep]

The only VI that deserves to become self aware is glyph. I'd like to discuss that Elcor mating ritual with him.

[IceHawk-181]

KaiserShep wrote...

The only VI that deserves to become self aware is glyph. I'd like to discuss that Elcor mating ritual with him.