926 réponses à ce sujet

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

There are only two possibilities.

1. Seival is the most dedicated troll BSN has ever seen, in which case I salute your work.
2. Seival is legitimately this crazy, in which case I fear for everyone's "essence".

[AresKeith]

Seival is giving me more reasons to hate Bioware's Synthesis and kill the Reapers even more

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

AresKeith wrote...

Seival is giving me more reasons to hate Bioware's Synthesis and kill the Reapers even more

Now now citizen we all know there is no hate in the Synthesis utopia.

Happiness is mandatory, failure to comply is treason, treason is punishable by death.

So tell me are you happy citizen?

[AresKeith]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

There are only two possibilities.

1. Seival is the most dedicated troll BSN has ever seen, in which case I salute your work.
2. Seival is legitimately this crazy, in which case I fear for everyone's "essence".

Can I say it's both?

[The Night Mammoth]

Kel Riever wrote...

Screaming means you are okay. Right?

Kelly as a good example. Captured by the Collectors, forced into a small coffin, transported, alone, through the ship, and then melted down in a clearly painful and frightening procedure whilst she screams and tries to claw her way out, into her base components, pumped through a tube into a Reaper shell, and then possibly forced to endure complete isolation after having lost her body and identity. If the Reaper had survived, she'd have had to endure that for thousands of years, almost certainly going mad, providing she isn't just indoctrinated.

How is someone supposed to be okay after this? If they are 'awakened' in Synthesis, and the avoided indoctrination, what's to assume these people are in any way kind or benevolent or even sane? And if their personalities aren't preserved and the people effectively die and it's just their genetic material which is stored, why should I feel remorse over killing the Reaper?

[mass perfection]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

There are only two possibilities.

1. Seival is the most dedicated troll BSN has ever seen, in which case I salute your work.
2. Seival is legitimately this crazy, in which case I fear for everyone's "essence".

I'd say that he's the most dedicated troll in the entire internets of all the universes of the multiverse and beyond.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

AresKeith wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

There are only two possibilities.

1. Seival is the most dedicated troll BSN has ever seen, in which case I salute your work.
2. Seival is legitimately this crazy, in which case I fear for everyone's "essence".

Can I say it's both?

Insane but willfully trolling to cover for it?

https://encrypted-tb...XqN39J-JaJDVUCw

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Why do people even still take Seival seriously?

Regardless of whether or not he's trolling, his posts are ridiculous non-sense.

It's impossible to argue with him since he has a case of megalomaniacal insanity with a near total state of divorce from reality. If it doesn't fit with his vision of it, it's not real. Or he is a troll, though I've never known a troll to go this hardcore about this. He makes his own art for synthesis for crying out loud.

I think it's actually funny that he thinks people are actually being converted into accepting his belief.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Peace, love and happiness in the green wave of synthesis. That's what it is all about. Shopping malls will be built inside the reapers and they will sell the finest goods of their cycles on every world. You won't even have to worry about digging in your purse for your credit card. Simply plug your finger into the kiosk for the transaction.

And if you suffer a tragic fall and "die", no worries. Respawn! Thanks to Hyperion Industries new respawning stations a new you will be constructed for a reasonable charge at a nearby respawning point. However, it will only be a digital reconstruction based upon the most recent scan. Is it the true you? Who knows? Only you will know the difference, and you can now continue with your high risk occupation.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Seival wrote...

I created this thread to share some of my thoughts. I do believe that harvested people are still alive. I base my belief on Synthesis outcome, recent lore from ME3 multiplayer (Awakened Collectors), and some interesting ideas from other stories.

I believe that harvest is not genocide, because harvested life still can be released. Harvest is more like imprisonment. And each galactic civilization gave the Catalyst strong reasons to imprison them, I want to note. But killing the Reapers is genocide, because killed Reapers can't be awakened anymore - those lives are gone forever.

Those are interesting thoughts, do you agree? Believe them or not - is your decision.
Threads are not always created for arguing, but some people still want to argue no matter what

Unfortunately, my internet connection wiped what I spent the last 25 minutes writing. I can't bring myself to write it again (I should know better, by now and copy/paste from Notepad, but it happened spontaneously.)

Anyway, it concluded with this UN definition of Genocide:
 "any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life, calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; [and] forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."

That should, I would hope, resolve the issue of whether or not the Reapers commit genocide. They do.

The question is whether their reasons are valid enough to justify the genocide. I've already stated that I believe the reasons for genocide behind the "Destroy" choice are valid.

I think you need to recognize that you believe the Reapers' reasons for genocide are valid. The best villains are ones who you can actually relate to, in some way. Understanding why the Reapers believe what they are doing is justified adds depth.

But it doesn't change the definition of genocide, whether the DNA is preserved or not. The Ego is created by perception - ending sentient life is ending the ego's ability to perceive. Those people are not coming back. Cloning creates new people - it doesn't recreate the old ones.

[Redbelle]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Seival is giving me more reasons to hate Bioware's Synthesis and kill the Reapers even more

Now now citizen we all know there is no hate in the Synthesis utopia.

Happiness is mandatory, failure to comply is treason, treason is punishable by death.

So tell me are you happy citizen?

Soooooooo. If I was happy I would be free?

And if I was happy in the work I do, I would still be free!?!?

Then! I shall find happiness in tearing down the Synthesis Utopia! And shall create a special one day celebration each year where we go about this work. And we shall dedicate this work to the Catalyst! Without which, this work would not be possible.

So yes, I'm very happy

<mummer> Thank you Dr Who! Your Candy Man happiness squad logic has finally given me the powah!

[Ravensword]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Why do people even still take Seival seriously?

Regardless of whether or not he's trolling, his posts are ridiculous non-sense.

It's impossible to argue with him since he has a case of megalomaniacal insanity with a near total state of divorce from reality. If it doesn't fit with his vision of it, it's not real. Or he is a troll, though I've never known a troll to go this hardcore about this. He makes his own art for synthesis for crying out loud.

I think it's actually funny that he thinks people are actually being converted into accepting his belief.

He's an insane troll, then?

[AresKeith]

Ravensword wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Why do people even still take Seival seriously?

Regardless of whether or not he's trolling, his posts are ridiculous non-sense.

It's impossible to argue with him since he has a case of megalomaniacal insanity with a near total state of divorce from reality. If it doesn't fit with his vision of it, it's not real. Or he is a troll, though I've never known a troll to go this hardcore about this. He makes his own art for synthesis for crying out loud.

I think it's actually funny that he thinks people are actually being converted into accepting his belief.

He's an insane troll, then?

Indeed

[xlegionx]

Imanol de Tafalla wrote...

I would love to see how Javik and an Awakened Collector would interact with one another.

Javik wouldn't interact with it. He would "interact" with a nearby airlock.

[mass perfection]

Imanol de Tafalla wrote...

I would love to see how Javik and an Awakened Collector would interact with one another.

Javik would call him a false Prothean or something like that.

[Nole]

Imanol de Tafalla wrote...

I would love to see how Javik and an Awakened Collector would interact with one another.

I honestly think that Javik would commit suicide in the Synthesis and Control ending.

[HiddenInWar]

There's no way seival is a troll. No troll is ever this dedicated.

[mass perfection]

WittingEight65 wrote...

Imanol de Tafalla wrote...

I would love to see how Javik and an Awakened Collector would interact with one another.

I honestly think that Javik would commit suicide in the Synthesis and Control ending.

Not in Control.

[Seival]

Jeremiah12LGeek wrote...

Seival wrote...

I created this thread to share some of my thoughts. I do believe that harvested people are still alive. I base my belief on Synthesis outcome, recent lore from ME3 multiplayer (Awakened Collectors), and some interesting ideas from other stories.

I believe that harvest is not genocide, because harvested life still can be released. Harvest is more like imprisonment. And each galactic civilization gave the Catalyst strong reasons to imprison them, I want to note. But killing the Reapers is genocide, because killed Reapers can't be awakened anymore - those lives are gone forever.

Those are interesting thoughts, do you agree? Believe them or not - is your decision.
Threads are not always created for arguing, but some people still want to argue no matter what

Unfortunately, my internet connection wiped what I spent the last 25 minutes writing. I can't bring myself to write it again (I should know better, by now and copy/paste from Notepad, but it happened spontaneously.)

Anyway, it concluded with this UN definition of Genocide:
 "any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life, calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; [and] forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."

That should, I would hope, resolve the issue of whether or not the Reapers commit genocide. They do.

The question is whether their reasons are valid enough to justify the genocide. I've already stated that I believe the reasons for genocide behind the "Destroy" choice are valid.

I think you need to recognize that you believe the Reapers' reasons for genocide are valid. The best villains are ones who you can actually relate to, in some way. Understanding why the Reapers believe what they are doing is justified adds depth.

But it doesn't change the definition of genocide, whether the DNA is preserved or not. The Ego is created by perception - ending sentient life is ending the ego's ability to perceive. Those people are not coming back. Cloning creates new people - it doesn't recreate the old ones.

No, this definition is incomplete, and so can't resolve the issue of whether or not the Reapers commit genocide. Each listed act in the definition misses one very important word: irreversible. If you have a possibility to reverse a crime, i.e. bring a victim back to life (for example) then it's not a murder yet. But if the life is lost forever - then it becomes murder.

Harvested people are not murdered yet. They are transformed, and they can be recovered at least partially. They are still alive. And there is only one option to help those people - Synthesis.

And like I already said, my ethics doesn't have such thing as justifiable genocide.

[Ravensword]

mass perfection wrote...

Seival wrote...

xlegionx wrote...

 @Seival:
Please stop ignoring the fact the only a minority of each cycle is harvested. Most are just outright killed by the Reapers or their husk armies. That is a greater genocide than killing a synthetic being made up of organic material ever could be.

Also, the Awakened collector is a bunch of crap. See conversation with Mordin: www.youtube.com/watch

Civilians are the vast majority in any modern society, and galactic civilization is not much different in that term. 

Most casualties galactic civilization suffered were among military, and it's the military job to fight and die. They got paid for that risk you know? They know what they signed for, and all possible consequences.

Also,


"When the Reaper-killer known as Leviathan fought the Collectors, it severed their connection to Harbinger with a thrall device. Most Collector forces died as a result, but a few survived. Now, these rare individuals fight for the memory of their people, a proud race broken by the Reapers."

...They are the part of game's lore now, and you can't ignore that. Awakened Collectors are not Synthesized (yet), but they are the strong proof that harvested lives can be restored. And obviously, Synthesis is much more than just awaking.

My favorite MP character.Too bad he awakened to the monster and abomination he now is.Suicide is a better option.And don't tell me that the Reapers don't kill civilians when we see them blowing up buildings like there's no tomorrow at the beginning of the game.Harvested life be restored? Genetic goo=/=Husks.

Well, obviously those are friendship cannons and joy lasers filling people w/ happiness.

[AresKeith]

Seival wrote...

Jeremiah12LGeek wrote...

Seival wrote...

I created this thread to share some of my thoughts. I do believe that harvested people are still alive. I base my belief on Synthesis outcome, recent lore from ME3 multiplayer (Awakened Collectors), and some interesting ideas from other stories.

I believe that harvest is not genocide, because harvested life still can be released. Harvest is more like imprisonment. And each galactic civilization gave the Catalyst strong reasons to imprison them, I want to note. But killing the Reapers is genocide, because killed Reapers can't be awakened anymore - those lives are gone forever.

Those are interesting thoughts, do you agree? Believe them or not - is your decision.
Threads are not always created for arguing, but some people still want to argue no matter what

Unfortunately, my internet connection wiped what I spent the last 25 minutes writing. I can't bring myself to write it again (I should know better, by now and copy/paste from Notepad, but it happened spontaneously.)

Anyway, it concluded with this UN definition of Genocide:
 "any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life, calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; [and] forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."

That should, I would hope, resolve the issue of whether or not the Reapers commit genocide. They do.

The question is whether their reasons are valid enough to justify the genocide. I've already stated that I believe the reasons for genocide behind the "Destroy" choice are valid.

I think you need to recognize that you believe the Reapers' reasons for genocide are valid. The best villains are ones who you can actually relate to, in some way. Understanding why the Reapers believe what they are doing is justified adds depth.

But it doesn't change the definition of genocide, whether the DNA is preserved or not. The Ego is created by perception - ending sentient life is ending the ego's ability to perceive. Those people are not coming back. Cloning creates new people - it doesn't recreate the old ones.

No, this definition is incomplete, and so can't resolve the issue of whether or not the Reapers commit genocide. Each listed act in the definition misses one very important word: irreversible. If you have a possibility to reverse a crime, i.e. bring a victim back to life (for example) then it's not a murder yet. But if the life is lost forever - then it becomes murder.

Harvested people are not murdered yet. They are transformed, and they can be recovered at least partially. They are still alive. And there is only one option to help those people - Synthesis.

And like I already said, my ethics doesn't have such thing as justifiable genocide.

Do you really think they are happy or still sane that their bodies have been twisted and transformed to kill people

[mass perfection]

Ravensword wrote...

mass perfection wrote...

Seival wrote...

xlegionx wrote...

 @Seival:
Please stop ignoring the fact the only a minority of each cycle is harvested. Most are just outright killed by the Reapers or their husk armies. That is a greater genocide than killing a synthetic being made up of organic material ever could be.

Also, the Awakened collector is a bunch of crap. See conversation with Mordin: www.youtube.com/watch

Civilians are the vast majority in any modern society, and galactic civilization is not much different in that term. 

Most casualties galactic civilization suffered were among military, and it's the military job to fight and die. They got paid for that risk you know? They know what they signed for, and all possible consequences.

Also,


"When the Reaper-killer known as Leviathan fought the Collectors, it severed their connection to Harbinger with a thrall device. Most Collector forces died as a result, but a few survived. Now, these rare individuals fight for the memory of their people, a proud race broken by the Reapers."

...They are the part of game's lore now, and you can't ignore that. Awakened Collectors are not Synthesized (yet), but they are the strong proof that harvested lives can be restored. And obviously, Synthesis is much more than just awaking.

My favorite MP character.Too bad he awakened to the monster and abomination he now is.Suicide is a better option.And don't tell me that the Reapers don't kill civilians when we see them blowing up buildings like there's no tomorrow at the beginning of the game.Harvested life be restored? Genetic goo=/=Husks.

Well, obviously those are friendship cannons and joy lasers filling people w/ happiness.

Thank you for illuminating me.

[Ticonderoga117]

So nonsensical MP descriptions are now SP canon and I'm a horrible horrible man for using anti-biotics.

Like I said, I do enjoy seeing how far down the crazy whole this thing gets.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Seival wrote...

Jeremiah12LGeek wrote...

Seival wrote...

I created this thread to share some of my thoughts. I do believe that harvested people are still alive. I base my belief on Synthesis outcome, recent lore from ME3 multiplayer (Awakened Collectors), and some interesting ideas from other stories.

I believe that harvest is not genocide, because harvested life still can be released. Harvest is more like imprisonment. And each galactic civilization gave the Catalyst strong reasons to imprison them, I want to note. But killing the Reapers is genocide, because killed Reapers can't be awakened anymore - those lives are gone forever.

Those are interesting thoughts, do you agree? Believe them or not - is your decision.
Threads are not always created for arguing, but some people still want to argue no matter what

Unfortunately, my internet connection wiped what I spent the last 25 minutes writing. I can't bring myself to write it again (I should know better, by now and copy/paste from Notepad, but it happened spontaneously.)

Anyway, it concluded with this UN definition of Genocide:
 "any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life, calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; [and] forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."

That should, I would hope, resolve the issue of whether or not the Reapers commit genocide. They do.

The question is whether their reasons are valid enough to justify the genocide. I've already stated that I believe the reasons for genocide behind the "Destroy" choice are valid.

I think you need to recognize that you believe the Reapers' reasons for genocide are valid. The best villains are ones who you can actually relate to, in some way. Understanding why the Reapers believe what they are doing is justified adds depth.

But it doesn't change the definition of genocide, whether the DNA is preserved or not. The Ego is created by perception - ending sentient life is ending the ego's ability to perceive. Those people are not coming back. Cloning creates new people - it doesn't recreate the old ones.

No, this definition is incomplete, and so can't resolve the issue of whether or not the Reapers commit genocide. Each listed act in the definition misses one very important word: irreversible. If you have a possibility to reverse a crime, i.e. bring a victim back to life (for example) then it's not a murder yet. But if the life is lost forever - then it becomes murder.

Harvested people are not murdered yet. They are transformed, and they can be recovered at least partially. They are still alive. And there is only one option to help those people - Synthesis.

And like I already said, my ethics doesn't have such thing as justifiable genocide.

I am cleaning tea off my desk and keyboard.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 09 juin 2013 - 11:30 .