163 réponses à ce sujet

[Cyrax86]

didn't the 5th blight, take about 6 months i remember seeing or reading that somewhere, can't remember. doesn't Hawke leave after Lothering is attacked,

DAO/DAA beginning of 9:30 to early 9:31

Hawke expidition late 9:31

this is my guess.

[Nightdragon8]

Plaintiff wrote...

BasilKarlo wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

BasilKarlo wrote...

MR_PN wrote...

more over reactions to small-ish details? lovely

If you're really into the lore these are not small details, they're glaring mistakes that BioWare actively denies exist.

Of course they seem that way, that's the whole point of being an irrationally obsessive fan.

What's the point? You should work on your reading comprehension.

My reading comprehension is fine.

You said "these are not small details if you're really into the lore".

Translation: "If you loved Dragon Age as much as I love Dragon Age, these minor discrepancies would seem enormous. Since they don't seem enormous, you're not a real fan."

Being "really into the lore" means making a mountain out of every molehill you stumble on. Expecting the writers to sift through everything they've written and double or triple check every single imaginary date on the fictional calendar of Thedas, just to appease a minority of people who've focussed all their energies on becoming walking encyclopedias for a non-existent world, is completely unreasonable.

you know honestly It seems you like picking fights, you haven't really help contribute to this thread, other than to say "your too obesste, get over it" 

you may not be trying to pick a fight, But the way you come off, is really abrassive, so insted of insulting people saying that "The writers don't care about it so you shouldn't either" and I dunno constructivly help or don't post at all.

Thank you

[Sutekh]

As someone who's "really into the lore", I don't care that much about the time-line. It is shaky. There are discrepancies. I noticed them. What's important is that they don't have a real impact on the plot itself, and that I can headcanon or bend it enough to make it fit without the universe imploding due to space-time collisions. Minor discrepancies don't prevent me from enjoying the games; they come under the "suspension of disbelief" umbrella.

Most cRPGs have a time-line problem anyway, due to fast travel, side-questing and the very fact that we don't all have the same playthroughs, so we all can't have the exact same time-line. For instance, a warden who does each and every side-quests and zig-zags his way all over Ferelden would logically take more time to off the Archdemon than one who only does mandatory tasks and optimizes travels. If you want to apply strict logic and split hair about it, it could be as varied as six months to nearly two years.

As for Leliana's beheading, it always amazes me how many people seem to have witnessed it in-game, considering it's a very rare finisher.

[Gorguz]

I like to pretend that the deep road expedition happened two years after what Varric says. He just wanted to make that part of the story smoother than it actually is, for storytelling sake (and because of gameplay).

Modifié par Gorguz, 07 juin 2013 - 09:02 .

[Otone360]

I like to pretend those huge time jumps from the second game never happened

[Nightdragon8]

Sutekh wrote...

As someone who's "really into the lore", I don't care that much about the time-line. It is shaky. There are discrepancies. I noticed them. What's important is that they don't have a real impact on the plot itself, and that I can headcanon or bend it enough to make it fit without the universe imploding due to space-time collisions. Minor discrepancies don't prevent me from enjoying the games; they come under the "suspension of disbelief" umbrella.

Most cRPGs have a time-line problem anyway, due to fast travel, side-questing and the very fact that we don't all have the same playthroughs, so we all can't have the exact same time-line. For instance, a warden who does each and every side-quests and zig-zags his way all over Ferelden would logically take more time to off the Archdemon than one who only does mandatory tasks and optimizes travels. If you want to apply strict logic and split hair about it, it could be as varied as six months to nearly two years.

As for Leliana's beheading, it always amazes me how many people seem to have witnessed it in-game, considering it's a very rare finisher.

yea can't really consider a % chance finisher on combat to be considered "canon"

well expect maybe my Cosland playthough with Howl... I can consider that beheading "canon" can't I?

[Mr.House]

Nrieh wrote...

I think the thing is, it takes much longer for Hawke to travel upwards to Kirkwall than we think. So, he probably reaches Kirkwall by the time the Blight is over but before news reaches it.

I just wrote about it in another thread. Hawke and Warden start moving at same time and from same place (Ostagar), and Hawkes even have some "boost" from Flemmeth, remember? How come Warden manages to gather forces, find Urn, defeat Archdeamon and end Blight, while Hawke only reaches Kirkwall?
Varric that mentions defeating Archdeamon between prologue and chapter 1 (during the year of servitude) also does not help.
y
.

Uh no they don't. Hawkes story begins with the attack on Lothering and the Hawke familly escaping and getting chased by darkspawn. This only happens after you recruit one faction or save Redcliffe.  You also have to account how far Hawke and co have to travel to get to the boat, along with the boat trip it self Hawke and co where also in the gallows for three day. The timeline is a mess, but it can be worked as long as you start pulling things from your butt to make sense of this mess started thanks to Anders being in DA2.

Modifié par Mr.House, 07 juin 2013 - 10:06 .

[archangel1996]

"Fernando Melo: Several months have passed since the end of Origins, or more correctly, the end of the Blight, which is the game's focus for Origins."

Oghren and the whole Felsi-baby thing for DA:A, royal marriage Cousland-Anora/Anora-Alistair/Alistair-Cousland
Wynne i already sayed, since she sayes ALMOST it could be 9 to 12 months


@Mr House: Hawke and Carver flee from the battle, they go home and run away with the family. In the initial post i took 6 months as a valid interpretation but it really isn't since the Hawke family has to run away like the devil is chasing them, even if Hawke and Carver had to travel 3 months just to arrive in Lothering it doesn't make sense that they would do nothing for the consecutive 3 months

Modifié par archangel1996, 07 juin 2013 - 10:18 .

[LoonySpectre]

Lothering shouldn't be that far from Ostagar. Morrigan visited Lothering several times prior to the events of DAO (at least, she said so), presumably going on foot, and I doubt that Flemeth allowed her extended leave for several months.

[NRieh]

Hawkes story begins with the attack on Lothering and the Hawke familly escaping and getting chased by darkspawn.

nonMage Hawke and Carver both were at Ostagar, and it's stated directly in game. Warden went to save Ferelden and Hawke got home just with enough time to grab mom and sis and run away from the village on fire ( that's where the game starts).

Note, that Warden gets to Lothering before Hawke does, even being hit hard on top of the tower. I guess we could live with that - Morrigan knew Wilds so well and they had Flemmeth magic, while Hawkes were fleeing from the battle directly, in chaos, with Darkspawn chasing them, and it could take some time to find each other (for nonMage Hawke). That could give Warden not much time - a week or two, month - at best (if we consider that Darkspawn moved that slow). From that moment - Warden has 2 treaties, Urn and Denerim (Archdemon included) (+DAA and DLCs if any), Hawke only needs to get to Kirkwall.

[Nightdragon8]

Nrieh wrote...

Hawkes story begins with the attack on Lothering and the Hawke familly escaping and getting chased by darkspawn.

nonMage Hawke and Carver both were at Ostagar, and it's stated directly in game. Warden went to save Ferelden and Hawke got home just with enough time to grab mom and sis and run away from the village on fire ( that's where the game starts).

Note, that Warden gets to Lothering before Hawke does, even being hit hard on top of the tower. I guess we could live with that - Morrigan knew Wilds so well and they had Flemmeth magic, while Hawkes were fleeing from the battle directly, in chaos, with Darkspawn chasing them, and it could take some time to find each other (for nonMage Hawke). That could give Warden not much time - a week or two, month - at best (if we consider that Darkspawn moved that slow). From that moment - Warden has 2 treaties, Urn and Denerim (Archdemon included) (+DAA and DLCs if any), Hawke only needs to get to Kirkwall.

yea the Hawkes had to first disengae from the battle, which more than likly took all night, camped out, then started heading to Lothering, Then go from there with family which depending on what happened, took some convicing to "leave everything behind" so they could run away. then we have the start of events in DA2,

[Sutekh]

Nrieh wrote...

Hawkes story begins with the attack on Lothering and the Hawke familly escaping and getting chased by darkspawn.

nonMage Hawke and Carver both were at Ostagar, and it's stated directly in game. Warden went to save Ferelden and Hawke got home just with enough time to grab mom and sis and run away from the village on fire ( that's where the game starts).

Note, that Warden gets to Lothering before Hawke does, even being hit hard on top of the tower. I guess we could live with that - Morrigan knew Wilds so well and they had Flemmeth magic, while Hawkes were fleeing from the battle directly, in chaos, with Darkspawn chasing them, and it could take some time to find each other (for nonMage Hawke). That could give Warden not much time - a week or two, month - at best (if we consider that Darkspawn moved that slow). From that moment - Warden has 2 treaties, Urn and Denerim (Archdemon included) (+DAA and DLCs if any), Hawke only needs to get to Kirkwall.

Hawkes gets to Kirwall while the Blight is still going and the Warden is still grey wardening. When Hawke arrives - which takes some time, considering he takes ship in Gwaren, not the closest port to Kirkwall - the Archdemon's still alive and kicking. The Blight and Awakening situations are solved during the year Hawke spends in servitude to pay for his entrance fee. Subsequent DLCs (Amgarrak and Witch Hunt) happen later. The codex entries about the Hero of Ferelden and the end of the Blight, and Varric's mention of the latter, only appear once Hawke's first year in Kirkwall is over, not when he arrives there. 

So, adding Hawke's journey and Hawke's first year in Kirkwall, we get roughly more than a year. Enough time for the warden to get things done, even though it's a bit short if we count Awakening.

Modifié par Sutekh, 07 juin 2013 - 11:30 .

[LoonySpectre]

It ultimately boils down to one question: how far is Gwaren (the city from which the Hawkes took the ship to Kirkwall) from Lothering? It's off the map in DAO, and there's a "heavily forested region" around the city, so it's safe to assume that the Hawkes and Aveline had a rough time getting there.

Modifié par LoonySpectre, 07 juin 2013 - 11:33 .

[archangel1996]

I think Flemeth Dragon version took theme there

@Sutekh: As i already sayed Hawke could have taken 6 months to arrive in Kirkwall, still with everything we know, everything the devs sayed and everything the characters say it's not enough time for Anders to merge with Justice, run from the Warden-Commander, go to Kirkwall and become famous enough to build a "proper" clinic

Modifié par archangel1996, 07 juin 2013 - 11:48 .

[Sutekh]

LoonySpectre wrote...

It ultimately boils down to one question: how far is Gwaren (the city from which the Hawkes took the ship to Kirkwall) from Lothering? It's off the map in DAO, and there's a "heavily forested region" around the city, so it's safe to assume that the Hawkes and Aveline had a rough time getting there.

Here's a map.

Gwaren's east and a bit south from Lothering. To get to Kirkwall, a ship needs to go around the Fereldan eastern coast and a good part of the northern one. There's also currents, winds and general weather to account for (currents and winds can easily double the time), which are data we don't have - and probably never will.

Now why did they choose Gwaren instead of going north to West Hill across Lake Calenhad is another (puzzling) matter.

[Commander Kurt]

Wittand25 wrote...

Commander Kurt wrote...

But can we at least start by getting the facts straight? I mean, what does the actual timeline say? What are the dates we know about?

Estimates on how long this and that should take are utterly useless, and not in any way at all indicative that bioware has botched the timeline. So, discounting personal theories on how long stuff should take, is there still an issue with the timeline?

DA:O 9:30-31
DA:A and most DLC for DA:O 9:31
Hawke expedition to deep roads 9:31
DA:WH 9:32

So Anders fled to Kirkwall in 9:31 after DA:A, but before the Warden Commander faced Morrigan during Witch Hunt.

Thanks! So is it Witch Hunt that's causing the problems? The rest of it seems to work.

Is it stated that the Hawke family went straight from Ostagar to Lothering to Kirkwall? "We've been running since Ostagar" indicates as much, but is it conclusive or is it just something people say? My sister claimed just yesterday to have been "living in a box for two years" which isn't actually true at all. She's moved three times during that period and, similarly, the Hawke's might not have been running nonstop.

Now, regarding the trip in itself the way I remember it no one had any belongings at all when fleeing Lothering. Did we have any money? It took us a year to get from the gallows to lowtown after all, how long would it have taken to get from Gwaren to Kirkwall?

These points have been brought up already, but I'm guessing since they haven't been addressed (that I've seen) that they have been somehow overlooked. Repeating them will probably do a world of good. 

[Sutekh]

archangel1996 wrote...

@Sutekh: As i already sayed Hawke could have taken 6 months to arrive in Kirkwall, still with everything we know, everything the devs sayed and everything the characters say it's not enough time for Anders to merge with Justice, run from the Warden-Commander, go to Kirkwall and become famous enough to build a "proper" clinic

???

I wasn't talking about Anders (since I happen to agree with you, but, as I said, don't really think it's a big deal), but Nrieh's point that the Warden did all the Blight and Awakening quests during the time it took for Hawke to get from Lothering to Kirkwall.

[archangel1996]

Commander Kurt wrote...

Wittand25 wrote...

Commander Kurt wrote...

But can we at least start by getting the facts straight? I mean, what does the actual timeline say? What are the dates we know about?

Estimates on how long this and that should take are utterly useless, and not in any way at all indicative that bioware has botched the timeline. So, discounting personal theories on how long stuff should take, is there still an issue with the timeline?

DA:O 9:30-31
DA:A and most DLC for DA:O 9:31
Hawke expedition to deep roads 9:31
DA:WH 9:32

So Anders fled to Kirkwall in 9:31 after DA:A, but before the Warden Commander faced Morrigan during Witch Hunt.

Thanks! So is it Witch Hunt that's causing the problems? The rest of it seems to work.

Is it stated that the Hawke family went straight from Ostagar to Lothering to Kirkwall? "We've been running since Ostagar" indicates as much, but is it conclusive or is it just something people say? My sister claimed just yesterday to have been "living in a box for two years" which isn't actually true at all. She's moved three times during that period and, similarly, the Hawke's might not have been running nonstop.

Now, regarding the trip in itself the way I remember it no one had any belongings at all when fleeing Lothering. Did we have any money? It took us a year to get from the gallows to lowtown after all, how long would it have taken to get from Gwaren to Kirkwall?

These points have been brought up already, but I'm guessing since they haven't been addressed (that I've seen) that they have been somehow overlooked. Repeating them will probably do a world of good. 

Actually
Blight 9:30-31 - 6 months to arrive in Kirkwall(it is false, it's 1-2 months at best anyway....)
6 months Awakening starts(oghren baby, devs) - 1 year servitude

Let's say Awakening 3-4 months, when Hawke hears about Anders he is still in Amaranthine or at the very best at the Siege of Vigil's Keep, if we take into account the 6 months Lothering-Kirkwall as a valid interpretation

And then there is the whole merging with Justice that, for timeline's sake, i think happens when both Anders and justice are left behind(Justice's head cut off, Anders merges with him)

Sutekh wrote...

archangel1996 wrote...

@Sutekh:
As i already sayed Hawke could have taken 6 months to arrive in
Kirkwall, still with everything we know, everything the devs sayed and
everything the characters say it's not enough time for Anders to merge
with Justice, run from the Warden-Commander, go to Kirkwall and become
famous enough to build a "proper" clinic

???

I wasn't
talking about Anders (since I happen to agree with you, but, as I said,
don't really think it's a big deal), but Nrieh's point that the Warden
did all the Blight and Awakening quests during the time it took for
Hawke to get from Lothering to Kirkwall.

My mistake, English is not my first language so sometimes i happen to misinterpret

Modifié par archangel1996, 07 juin 2013 - 12:02 .

[NRieh]

The codex entries about the Hero of Ferelden and the end of the Blight, and Varric's mention of the latter, only appear once Hawke's first year in Kirkwall is over, not when he arrives there.

Yep. And that does not help. Because by this time Ju-nders is already there for Karl accepting Hawke's assistance (and Sandal is already there on the market square).

While he is supposed to take part in DAA (begins only 6 months after the end of Blight, remember?) and meet Justice, after which (considering both live) one should "remain with the Grey Wardens to train the Order's next generation of mages.", and another one - "serve with the Order for many years". After which they somehow merge together (screw the "short story", it only complicates things and adds issues, as much as I love Helper), find out about Karl, get to Kirkwall and open a clinic.

And before you asked - yeah, I remember about epilogues being "rumors and heresy". Probably, the only way to "fix" it ( other than declaring all of DA2 something 100% imagined by Varric).

I also should say, that I love both Anders arc and DA2 (excluding things that can not be loved). But I wish players could have their DAO-DAA-DA2-DA3 PT without any nuclear headcannons (to fix plot and timeline holes).

[Aaleel]

Anders also didn't go to Kirkwall right after the events of Awakenings. There is a story or why Anders was hunted so much by the Chantry. He stayed in the Grey Wardens after Awakenings and the Wardens made a templar a Grey Warden just to keep an eye on Anders.

Anders over time got sick of the Templar/Warden shadowing him and ended up killing him along with some Wardens.  Then he fled to Kirkwall.

Anders being established in Kirkwall at the start of DA2 is way off.

Modifié par Aaleel, 07 juin 2013 - 12:01 .

[_Dana_]

Sutekh wrote...

Gwaren's east and a bit south from Lothering. To get to Kirkwall, a ship needs to go around the Fereldan eastern coast and a good part of the northern one. There's also currents, winds and general weather to account for (currents and winds can easily double the time), which are data we don't have - and probably never will.

According to Varric: "Two weeks they spend in that dark hold, packed with the fearful and the desperarte".

[NRieh]

. He stayed in the Grey Wardens after Awakenings and the Wardens made a templar a Grey Warden just to keep an eye on Anders.

you're quoting the "short story". You'd better not, because even without it there is not enough time for Anders to get to Kirkwall. It has a lot of vivid details, but I can not accept it as a "pure" part of lore. They, probably, intended to show more of Ju-nders in action in DA2, but they did not. This story does not really fit anywhere.

[Aaleel]

Nrieh wrote...

. He stayed in the Grey Wardens after Awakenings and the Wardens made a templar a Grey Warden just to keep an eye on Anders.

you're quoting the "short story". You'd better not, because even without it there is not enough time for Anders to get to Kirkwall. It has a lot of vivid details, but I can not accept it as a "pure" part of lore. They, probably, intended to show more of Ju-nders in action in DA2, but they did not. This story does not really fit anywhere.

It's on Anders character page on the official DA2 site under the word "Lore", what else should we take it as lol.

[LoonySpectre]

Now why did they choose Gwaren instead of going north to West Hill across Lake Calenhad is another (puzzling) matter.

Flemeth explicitly told them to go to Gwaren and flee Ferelden altogether.

[NRieh]

It's on Anders character page on the official DA2 site under the word "Lore", what else should we take it as lol.

As a nice piece of Helper's writing? 8P I don't know, really. It adds more questions than answers.