415 réponses à ce sujet

[David7204]

1. Yes. And? How does that at all support that the Reaper had to sneak past the quarians?

2. If you're unsure, maybe you shouldn't make accusations of it being a writing inconsistency until you sort out your facts?

3. Yes. So what? The geth were not able to instantly contact the Reapers and instantly receive upgrades when the quarians attacked. Again, how is this a problem?

Modifié par David7204, 09 juin 2013 - 09:04 .

[S.A.K]

CynicalShep wrote...

3. Yet they did not receive them while their Dyson Sphere/Bubble was being destroyed, which means the Reaper gave them the upgrades when they were already "flashbanging" Geth at home. That means no alliance was in place.

Wrong again. They got the upgrade when the Dyson Bubble was under attack and stopped the Quarians before it was completely destroyed.

[CynicalShep]

S.A.K wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

S.A.K wrote...

 I don't see how the Geth could, come to a deal with the Reapers, install Reaper tech on that ship, find and strap Legion into it and transmit the signal to all Geth within the time it took for the Quarians to blow up some satallites like Legion wants us to believe.

"Blowing up some satellites" can take a very long time. We're talking about a network of satellites around a star. Hell, chasing and blowing all current Earth's satellites would probably take some time, given how spread out they are. A deal with the Reapers would take seconds when parameters change. They don't do debates in big rooms, they communicate at the speed of light. Transmiting the signal is almost instant as seen in the ending where you allow Legion to upload the code. It takes him seconds to upload it to all Geth and annihilate the entire flotilla. Legion was already back there after the SM so "finding him" wouldn't be an issue. A couple Primes would make short work of immobilizing him as well. We're talking minutes versus days, I don't think the timeframe argument has a merit, really.

Are you kidding? So it takes more time to for a fleet of 50,000 ships to destroy some statellites then to destroy that said fleet?

Also Legion can upload the code like that because the network is already there. The Geth had to install Reaper hardware on their ship and get Legion from where ever it was and connect it to the device (Remember Shepard saying "that is definitely Reaper tech"). Even that could only be done after the Reaper allience is made.

Well, I doubt the destruction of the entire flotilla in itself took seconds. The bulk of it was destructed very fast, yes. And chasing a multitude of satellites around a planet (or a star, which is even bigger) might take more time than killing 50.000 ships that are all in near proximity and throwing themselves at you. All you need to do is stand your ground and shoot.

The hardware on the other hand is an entirely different issue. Still, I don't think it would take them that much to install it all. A handful of Cerberus scientists built an entire complex inside a Reaper in ME2 in a pretty short time. 

Modifié par CynicalShep, 09 juin 2013 - 09:10 .

[CynicalShep]

S.A.K wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

3. Yet they did not receive them while their Dyson Sphere/Bubble was being destroyed, which means the Reaper gave them the upgrades when they were already "flashbanging" Geth at home. That means no alliance was in place.

Wrong again. They got the upgrade when the Dyson Bubble was under attack and stopped the Quarians before it was completely destroyed.

Was not aware of this snippet of info, my bad. It does say "it appears that..." so there is a chance that Quarians destroyed most of it and then just decided to prioritize a different target (like the Geth fleet or Rannoch). 

[S.A.K]

CynicalShep wrote...

S.A.K wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

S.A.K wrote...

 I don't see how the Geth could, come to a deal with the Reapers, install Reaper tech on that ship, find and strap Legion into it and transmit the signal to all Geth within the time it took for the Quarians to blow up some satallites like Legion wants us to believe.

"Blowing up some satellites" can take a very long time. We're talking about a network of satellites around a star. Hell, chasing and blowing all current Earth's satellites would probably take some time, given how spread out they are. A deal with the Reapers would take seconds when parameters change. They don't do debates in big rooms, they communicate at the speed of light. Transmiting the signal is almost instant as seen in the ending where you allow Legion to upload the code. It takes him seconds to upload it to all Geth and annihilate the entire flotilla. Legion was already back there after the SM so "finding him" wouldn't be an issue. A couple Primes would make short work of immobilizing him as well. We're talking minutes versus days, I don't think the timeframe argument has a merit, really.

Are you kidding? So it takes more time to for a fleet of 50,000 ships to destroy some statellites then to destroy that said fleet?

Also Legion can upload the code like that because the network is already there. The Geth had to install Reaper hardware on their ship and get Legion from where ever it was and connect it to the device (Remember Shepard saying "that is definitely Reaper tech"). Even that could only be done after the Reaper allience is made.

Well, I doubt the destruction of the entire flotilla in itself took seconds. The bulk of it was destructed very fast, yes. And chasing a multitude of satellites around a planet (or a star, which is even bigger) might take more time than killing 50.000 ships that are all in near proximity and throwing themselves at you. All you need to do is stand your ground and shoot to attack the Geth.

The hardware on the other hand is an entirely different issue. Still, I don't think it would take them that much to install it all. A handful of Cerberus scientists built an entire complex inside a Reaper in ME2 in a pretty short time. 

Buddy. Looks like you haven't read the codex that much. The final battle at Rannoch isn't actually like in the cut scene. Bulk of the Quarian fleet is in the other side of the star and uses gravitational slingshot.

The thing is this is why I think the Geth were already allied or in a deal with the Reapers:
Geth's plan for surviving the Quarians was submit themselves to the Reapers. Now then, what was their plan to survive the Reapers? The don't have any allies and they sure as hell can't face the Reapers alone. So they might come to a deal with Reapers like the Heretics did. Something like 'if you let us live, we will help you deal with the organics'. So it is far more likely they were already in a deal with Reaper when Quarians attacked then the Geth doing all that within that very small time frame. And I don't mean under Reaper control, just an allience.

Further more, the only thing that suggest the Quarian attacking making the Geth ally with Reapers is Legion's un-supported words. And the game makes it clear at several points that Legion lies to Shepard.

Modifié par S.A.K, 09 juin 2013 - 09:31 .

[S.A.K]

CynicalShep wrote...

S.A.K wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

3. Yet they did not receive them while their Dyson Sphere/Bubble was being destroyed, which means the Reaper gave them the upgrades when they were already "flashbanging" Geth at home. That means no alliance was in place.

Wrong again. They got the upgrade when the Dyson Bubble was under attack and stopped the Quarians before it was completely destroyed.

Was not aware of this snippet of info, my bad. It does say "it appears that..." so there is a chance that Quarians destroyed most of it and then just decided to prioritize a different target (like the Geth fleet or Rannoch). 

Lol, Why are you trying so hard to make excuses for the Geth?

[CynicalShep]

@ David
1. Because otherwise the Geth didn't ally themselves with the Reapers but rented some space for a Destroyer and installed a bunch of technology "just in case".
2. The upgrade is recent when Shepard arrives (the fleet is still mostly intact). Even if it happened one week before his arrival it'd still be 10 days. Do you know how long that is, David? Try uploading the code and siding with the Geth and see how long it's taking the Geth fleet to finish the flotilla. How long do you think these same upgraded Geth were shooting at the Quarians before your Shepard arrived? In fact, how is the flotilla still pretty much untouched? Their admirals must be miracle workers.
3. So they contacted the Reaper, received the tech, transported it and installed it in the middle of a space battle, when Quarians were prioritizing the Dreadnought? Or maybe, just maybe, that tech has been on the ship before that particular confrontation began?

Modifié par CynicalShep, 09 juin 2013 - 09:31 .

[CynicalShep]

S.A.K wrote...

Buddy. Looks like you haven't read the codex that much. The final battle at Rannoch isn't actually like in the cut scene. Bulk of the Quarian fleet is in the other side of the star and uses gravitational slingshot.

Then it's even worse than I thought. So we see one thing in game and another thing in the codex, which is what I was talking about all along. 

S.A.K wrote...
Lol, Why are you trying so hard to make excuses for the Geth?

If you'll read my other posts you'll see that I do a lot of the opposite, too.

Modifié par CynicalShep, 09 juin 2013 - 09:28 .

[David7204]

It sounds to me like you've got the timeline screwed up. Here is the order of events.

1. The quarians attack the geth.
2. The geth contact the Reapers, and Legion or the Geth VI is installed on the geth dreadnought.
3. The geth push the quarians back from Rannoch.
4. A Reaper is sent to Rannoch to provide a back-up signal.
5. Shepard meets up with the quarians.

Never at any point do anything of things you insist are problems actually happen.

Modifié par David7204, 09 juin 2013 - 09:38 .

[S.A.K]

CynicalShep wrote...

S.A.K wrote...

Buddy. Looks like you haven't read the codex that much. The final battle at Rannoch isn't actually like in the cut scene. Bulk of the Quarian fleet is in the other side of the star and uses gravitational slingshot.

Then it's even worse than I thought. So we see one thing in game and another thing in the codex, which is what I was talking about all along.

I know right? I don't like it, but it is understandable. They can't show everything in a 30 seconds cut scene. And 2 large fleets facing off like that tends to look dramatic.

S.A.K wrote...
Lol, Why are you trying so hard to make excuses for the Geth?

If you'll read my other posts you'll see that I do a lot of the opposite, too.

Oh, ok then. I was showing you why I don't trust the explanation Legion gives. If the Geth were in a deal with Reapers, Legion sure as hell wouldn't let Shepard (or anyone else for that matter) know about it.

The whole Rannoch story arc is a huge mess really. I hate how they made all the Geth into Heretics and made Legion go against everthing it said in ME2. Then they try to white wash the Geth hilariously.

ME2 Legion : Heretics claim their future from the Reapers. The true Geth make their own future.
ME3 Legion : Reaper code or death!!!

I was so happy to know Legion can't be saved from death. The character I once loved (my 3rd favorite in the series) is already dead. The thing in ME3 is an insult.

[CynicalShep]

David7204 wrote...

It sounds to me like you've got the timeline screwed up. Here is the order of events.

1. The quarians attack the geth.
2. The geth contact the Reapers, and Legion or the Geth VI is installed on the geth dreadnought.
3. The geth push the quarians back from Rannoch.
4. A Reaper is sent to Rannoch to provide a back-up signal.
5. Shepard meets up with the quarians.

Never at any point do anything of things you insist are problems actually happen.

sauce?

[David7204]

I don't need a source. It's a plausible series of events supported by the evidence of the story. The burden of proof is on you.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

David7204 wrote...

I don't need a source. It's a plausible series of events supported by the evidence of the story. The burden of proof is on you.

So no source then?

Oh Davey you're so cute.:wub:

[David7204]

Do you know what burden of proof is?

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Of course Davey Wavey.

The real question is if you know how to make a point with out being a massive douche about it?

I'm guessing "no".

Modifié par Grand Admiral Cheesecake, 09 juin 2013 - 10:37 .

[CynicalShep]

S.A.K wrote...

I know right? I don't like it, but it is understandable. They can't show everything in a 30 seconds cut scene. And 2 large fleets facing off like that tends to look dramatic.

That and the outcome of the space battle was likely decided then and there. Everything Quarian above Rannoch was advancing on the Geth fleet. It might not have been the entire fleet but it was enough to make the rest of the war more of a "clean-up" than an actual fight.

S.A.K wrote...

Oh, ok then. I was showing you why I don't trust the explanation Legion gives. If the Geth were in a deal with Reapers, Legion sure as hell wouldn't let Shepard (or anyone else for that matter) know about it.

The whole Rannoch story arc is a huge mess really. I hate how they made all the Geth into Heretics and made Legion go against everthing it said in ME2. Then they try to white wash the Geth hilariously.

ME2 Legion : Heretics claim their future from the Reapers. The true Geth make their own future.
ME3 Legion : Reaper code or death!!!

I was so happy to know Legion can't be saved from death. The character I once loved (my 3rd favorite in the series) is already dead. The thing in ME3 is an insult.

I'm not exactly a trusting person in RL and that translates into the video-games I play. At the same time I don't think Legion knew much about it, tbh. He did end up crucified by his fellow Geth, didn't he? He might have been left out of the loop for this one decision, given that he worked more closely with organics and tried to negotiate peace.
Geth VI is an entirely different story. If Legion was made so that people would have an easier time picking the Geth, Legion VI reminds me of Wreav: only there to make killing Geth easier (like Wreav is supposed to make the "careful diplomacy" less repugnant).

[CynicalShep]

@ David7204
It's plausible, sure. Does that make it a fact? It's also plausible that the Reaper was already in place, the tech was on the ship and all the Geth were waiting for is the upgrades. You said my timeline was screwed up. If I choose to defend my timeline the burden of proof is on me. Then you presented your version of the timeline (how thoughtful). Now the burden of proof is on you. Isn't that how burden of proof works, David?

Modifié par CynicalShep, 09 juin 2013 - 10:44 .

[David7204]

No, that isn't remotely how it works at all. In fact, that's pretty much a textbook definition of how it doesn't work.

If you think something in the story is a problem, you have to prove it. Just like in a criminal trial, the prosecution has to prove guilt. The defence doesn't have to prove anything. As long as the defence can offer a reasonable explanation of innocence, the defendent is considered innocent.

Likewise, I don't have to prove anything. Just like we assume 'Innocent until proven guilty,' we assume the story works until someone can prove a problem. And since I can easily offer a reasonable, plausible explanation to your complaints, you've failed to establish that proof and your complaints are thus illegitimate.

Modifié par David7204, 09 juin 2013 - 11:12 .

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Oh Davey since Wulfie is gone you've become my favorite source of forum fun.

You're our silver medal.

[S.A.K]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Oh Davey since Wulfie is gone you've become my favorite source of forum fun.

You're our silver medal.

Auld is leaving?

[MstrJedi Kyle]

The Geth can be rebuilt, your crew cannot. Besides, only after choosing Synthesis does EDI claim "I am alive" to me this implies that she wasn't alive before choosing Synthesis. If that is true with EDI it would also apply to the Geth. Which mean choosing Destroy results in no loss of life.

Modifié par DarthKilby, 09 juin 2013 - 01:01 .

[KaiserShep]

Eh I considered EDI alive before even reaching earth. I you talk to her enough it's obvious that she has a fairly developed personality. Synthesis tries to crap on all of this with that line, but since it doesn't exist in my personal canon, I can completely ignore it.

[MstrJedi Kyle]

KaiserShep wrote...

Eh I considered EDI alive before even reaching earth. I you talk to her enough it's obvious that she has a fairly developed personality. Synthesis tries to crap on all of this with that line, but since it doesn't exist in my personal canon, I can completely ignore it.

Oh I agree. EDI shows quite a few human traits before the end, as do the Geth. That doesn't seem to matter unless you choose Synthesis though. 

[GreatBlueHeron]

An acceptable detroy would be the end of only the reapers. As it is now, all choices are renegade. My paragon Shep was most disappointed.