415 réponses à ce sujet

[Rafficus III]

No, the Geth can be rebuilt. The dilemma was whether or not it's ethical to kill something whose quality of life is debatable.

[IceHawk-181]

Dextro Milk wrote...

IceHawk-181 wrote...

When faced with slavery or death they chose slavery.

Willingly choosing to aid another race of machines in killing all life in the galaxy... Bad move.

It doesn't take a genious to figure out you would die in that situation as well, but hey, we're talking about the geth here... 

That is kind of the point here:
 
You have two choices:
 
Join a morally repugnant power in its genocidal drive to wipe out organics and survive.
 
or
 
Refuse and watch your entire species become extinct.
 
You have 5-seconds to decide.
 

[KaiserShep]

Technically, yes they could. You just can't reclaim the memories that were lost. They'd simply be a new line of geth.

[S.A.K]

IceHawk-181 wrote...

Did you pay any attention to what Legion actually stated?

The Quarian assault on the Superstructure literally destroyed the Geth's ability to conceive of a path towards survival and in a final act of desperation in the literal face of complete annihilation they turned to the only option left.

When faced with slavery or death they chose slavery.

And amazingly enough Legion immediately set into motion a plan to betray the Reapers the moment that Shepard showed up.

The **** analogy is quite apt in this case, as would any analogy that employed the moral dilemma of facing a Faustian bargain between survival and subjugation beneath an absolute dictatorship.

Human history is littered with populations that cowed beneath a regime it feared out of the simple desire to survive long enough to hopefully find freedom and security one day in the future.

Insofar as the analogy itself, citing Godwin was a tongue-in-cheek statement, get over yourself.

Also, Rommel sucked. A man who cannot bring himself to disobey a direct order that he knows will get his men killed and result in mission failure and negatively impact the overall war effort is not someone I hold in high regard.

Dude really? Geth had about 17 days before Quarians hit the Sphere. Plenty of time to figure something out. No such situation is that black and white and only an idiot would thing Geth had only 2 options. The Geth didn't even try to come up with a solution before they accepted Reaper slavery at the cost of themselves and the rest of the galaxy.

Also Legion who is just over a 1000 Geth programs is smart enough to know that choice is stupid. So how does the loss of some programs make them so stupid. Seems like more of Legion's bullsh!t to me. And again Geth were holding every Quarian colony and killing everyone trying to approach them. How can they be so stupid not to think Quarians would try to take their worlds back some day. Geth didn't even allow themselves to be contacted so a peaceful solution could be found.

In short, just killing the Geth would be a bloody good idea.

Modifié par S.A.K, 08 juin 2013 - 04:16 .

[IceHawk-181]

That is the equivalent of saying that Ancient Sparta still exists as a unique entity because I can teach you the cultural and social details of the original state despite the fact that the entire original state has been dead for millennia.

[Fixers0]

I do sometimes wonder how the red destroy wave can recongize the difference between "starship metal" and "geth metal".

[MassivelyEffective0730]

IceHawk-181 wrote...

Dextro Milk wrote...

IceHawk-181 wrote...

When faced with slavery or death they chose slavery.

Willingly choosing to aid another race of machines in killing all life in the galaxy... Bad move.

It doesn't take a genious to figure out you would die in that situation as well, but hey, we're talking about the geth here... 

That is kind of the point here:
 
You have two choices:
 
Join a morally repugnant power in its genocidal drive to wipe out organics and survive.
 
or
 
Refuse and watch your entire species become extinct.
 
You have 5-seconds to decide.
 

That's something I've always wondered about.

Some people are suggesting the Geth stand back and let the Quarians kill them. If the Quarians did that, my Shepard would certainly **** with them. 

I can't look at the entire conflict between the Geth and Quarians and take the Quarians seriously as a race. 

[KaiserShep]

As I said, it would be a new line, although considering what the word geth is supposed to mean, the quarians would probably avoid that term.

[Aarch_Aangel]

Morocco Mole wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

Technically, yes they could. You just can't reclaim the memories that were lost. They'd simply be a new line of geth.

Then it wouldn't be the geth

Change the first letter to an H and all is well. The heth. 

[IceHawk-181]

Let us stick with the canon shall we?

The Geth were already losing to the Quarians, who were currently lead by an Admiralty that has forced a full-scale us or them genocidal conflict. The Geth do not want the conflict and are amenable to any outcome that results in their continued survival.

You may head-canon a No Limits Fallacy capability on the part of the Geth to find a new way out of the conflict, but it does not exist in-universe.

The Geth could not find a way out of the conflict and survive without resorting to external influences.

There is a fundamental difference between the Heretic's choice to ally with the Reapers under no external pressures and join them on a galactic crusade and the Geth turning to the Reapers as the only option of survival after the Quarians demonstrated their vicious willingness to eradicate them all, even if it meant sacrificing the Flotilla in the process.

The mere fact that the moment an alternative option is presented that allows the Geth to survive independent from the Reapers Legion jumps at it should tell you what is going on here.

[Dextro Milk]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

I can't look at the entire conflict between the Geth and Quarians and take the Quarians seriously as a race. 

I think the same of the geth... 

If you are going to die, why help the reapers kill everyone else with you? Seems like a dick move+100

[IceHawk-181]

In other words, faced with the same choice, help the Reapers or die, every civilization in the galaxy should simply accept death?

Modifié par IceHawk-181, 08 juin 2013 - 04:33 .

[Dextro Milk]

IceHawk-181 wrote...

In other words, faced with the same choice, help the Reapers or die, every civilization in the galaxy should simply accept death?

You ever hear of fighting the reapers?

And yes, going down fighting is better than living as a tool used for killing billions of innocent people.

[IceHawk-181]

Fighting the Reapers conventionally is canonically impossible.

While I would not necessarily disagree with the "Prefer to go down fighting" mentality it is telling that, as I said before, few if any human societies in history actually decided that was the best route to take.

[Dextro Milk]

IceHawk-181 wrote...

Fighting the Reapers conventionally is canonically impossible.

Oh, well let me put down my gun and kill myself...

<_<

[DeinonSlayer]

Aarch_Aangel wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

Technically, yes they could. You just can't reclaim the memories that were lost. They'd simply be a new line of geth.

Then it wouldn't be the geth

Change the first letter to an H and all is well. The heth. 

There are plenty of letters left in the alphabet.

[IceHawk-181]

Morocco Mole wrote...

Choosing to be a slave to a race of machines that I know for a fact will kill me anyway once my purpose has been served is pretty stupid honestly

No one said that Faustian bargains work out in the end...

[Rafficus III]

Morocco Mole wrote...

hornedfrog87 wrote...
No, the Geth can be rebuilt.

Actually, no they can't.

Explain.

[hpjay]

Morocco Mole wrote...

Choosing to be a slave to a race of machines that I know for a fact will kill me anyway once my purpose has been served is pretty stupid honestly

They didn't necessarily know that for a fact.  And even if the odds were high, the Quarian fleet and its new weaponry were perhaps a more certain death.  Saren thought that he and his co-horts would survive the Reaper invation, why not the Geth.  Or maybe it was a poorly thought out attempt to gain time until a more optimal solution could be found. 

[Rafficus III]

Morocco Mole wrote...

hornedfrog87 wrote...
Explain.

Because Artificial Intelligence in Mass Effect isn't just something that involves you flipping a switch and turning it on. If you kill it, it's gone. You could try to rebuild it (though the geth were a fluke anyway and probably not something easy to replicate) but it wouldn't be the geth. It would be a new entity entirely. Something with its own thoughts and desires seperate from the original geth.

Same with EDI. Once you fry her blue box she's gone and dead forever. Any attempts at salvaging it would create an entirely new individual.

I think you're discrediting the Quarians and other races prematurely. Both EDI and the Geth have the possibility to be rebuilt, however this then delves into the whole "life" quandry. In a very simplistic answer: yes, they can be rebuilt but there will be a catch like you pointed out.