415 réponses à ce sujet

[MassivelyEffective0730]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Aarch_Aangel wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

Technically, yes they could. You just can't reclaim the memories that were lost. They'd simply be a new line of geth.

Then it wouldn't be the geth

Change the first letter to an H and all is well. The heth. 

There are plenty of letters left in the alphabet.

Ooh, I hope they get to M.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

IceHawk-181 wrote...

Dextro Milk wrote...

IceHawk-181 wrote...

When faced with slavery or death they chose slavery.

Willingly choosing to aid another race of machines in killing all life in the galaxy... Bad move.

It doesn't take a genious to figure out you would die in that situation as well, but hey, we're talking about the geth here... 

That is kind of the point here:
 
You have two choices:
 
Join a morally repugnant power in its genocidal drive to wipe out organics and survive.
 
or
 
Refuse and watch your entire species become extinct.
 
You have 5-seconds to decide.
 

There was a third choice: We surrender.

[Ryzaki]

S.A.K wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

I guess I'm the only person here who's a destroyer and actually likes the Geth more than the Quarians.

You are not alone. I pick the Geth over the Quarians every time. Much much prefer the Geth (even ME3 Geth) over the Quarians.

Now if the question was sacrifice the Quarians for the Geth...I'd do that every time.

Alas I have to make due with destroyed Rannoch slide because go go contrived all synthetics must die garbage.

*snip* 
Sorry, I couldn't help it. If you like dead Geth better(like me), you might actually enjoy the ending.

Cute. Tali (along with the rest of the quarians) are still dead though.

[wright1978]

jtav wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

jtav wrote...

Due to some space magic of unknown type, Shepard has a choice. He can release the Destroy wave as is or alter it to create a physically destructive blast that kills him and a great number of allies, including the Normandy crew. But the geth as a species remain intact. Basically, would you trade yourself and your team for synthetics?

Really i'm not seeing the difference, all your replacing geth lives with is organic lives in terms of sacrifice. If it was sacrifice a handful so millions were saved that would be different.

It spreads the casualties around to the rest of the fleet and makes it more akin to calling an airstrike on your position.

Choosing the Normandy crew & Shep  is hardly spreading the casualties and is clearly an attempt to personalise. They clearly add a weighting factor to what would otherise be a largely numerical decision. If its strictly an equal number of each race to replace single hit on geth, then the only people who i assume wouldn't pick it would be those that don't value synthetic life or weight it as less important.

[Ryzaki]

Phatose wrote...

Dextro Milk wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

Tali is washed ashore several hours later, finds an spaceworthy aircraft, then leaves on a quest for vengeance against Shepard.

I would help her. Your Shepard would die a slow death... 

Well, based on history here, I'll suggest you might want to rethink that plan.  People who make themselves Shepard's enemies have a way of dying.  And people who are Tali's allies when Shepard's not around....also have a way of dying.

*dies* 

LMAO.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

IceHawk-181 wrote...

Dextro Milk wrote...

IceHawk-181 wrote...

When faced with slavery or death they chose slavery.

Willingly choosing to aid another race of machines in killing all life in the galaxy... Bad move.

It doesn't take a genious to figure out you would die in that situation as well, but hey, we're talking about the geth here... 

That is kind of the point here:
 
You have two choices:
 
Join a morally repugnant power in its genocidal drive to wipe out organics and survive.
 
or
 
Refuse and watch your entire species become extinct.
 
You have 5-seconds to decide.
 

There was a third choice: We surrender.

More along the lines of "stop the Quarians" though once the Geth are under Reaper control, we have to deal with them regardless now.

I blame the Quarians completely though for the Geth going over to the Reapers. It was a terrible choice, and a terrible decision, but I really can't find myself blaming the Geth.

As my Shepard says after the Geth Dreadnought and punching Gerrel, "If I didn't need your fleet..."

He'd have left the Quarians to their fate at the hands of the Geth, with no remorse or guilt.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

hornedfrog87 wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

hornedfrog87 wrote...
Explain.

Because Artificial Intelligence in Mass Effect isn't just something that involves you flipping a switch and turning it on. If you kill it, it's gone. You could try to rebuild it (though the geth were a fluke anyway and probably not something easy to replicate) but it wouldn't be the geth. It would be a new entity entirely. Something with its own thoughts and desires seperate from the original geth.

Same with EDI. Once you fry her blue box she's gone and dead forever. Any attempts at salvaging it would create an entirely new individual.

I think you're discrediting the Quarians and other races prematurely. Both EDI and the Geth have the possibility to be rebuilt, however this then delves into the whole "life" quandry. In a very simplistic answer: yes, they can be rebuilt but there will be a catch like you pointed out.

I honestly don't think the Quarians would make the same mistake twice. I think they would micromanage their VIs a lot more closely and prevent their networks from evolving like they did the last time. So no. The Geth would not be rebuilt. They would build a VI labor force. I can only imagine what working in 48 degree C heat would be like in those suits.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

IceHawk-181 wrote...

Dextro Milk wrote...

IceHawk-181 wrote...

When faced with slavery or death they chose slavery.

Willingly choosing to aid another race of machines in killing all life in the galaxy... Bad move.

It doesn't take a genious to figure out you would die in that situation as well, but hey, we're talking about the geth here... 

That is kind of the point here:
 
You have two choices:
 
Join a morally repugnant power in its genocidal drive to wipe out organics and survive.
 
or
 
Refuse and watch your entire species become extinct.
 
You have 5-seconds to decide.
 

There was a third choice: We surrender.

More along the lines of "stop the Quarians" though once the Geth are under Reaper control, we have to deal with them regardless now.

I blame the Quarians completely though for the Geth going over to the Reapers. It was a terrible choice, and a terrible decision, but I really can't find myself blaming the Geth.

As my Shepard says after the Geth Dreadnought and punching Gerrel, "If I didn't need your fleet..."

He'd have left the Quarians to their fate at the hands of the Geth, with no remorse or guilt.

Of course. Your Shepard is an idealistic idiot. Mine is a pragmatist. The Geth could also have surrendered to the Quarians instead of siding with the Reapers.

I told Gerrel to counter attack as soon as the shields were down on that dreadnought. We got off the dreadnought safely. The idea was, "Okay now that we're in this war, let's win it and get it over with."

The Geth could have surrendered to the Quarians. Why was that option never explored? I'll tell you why. Because they didn't want to foreshadow control with one of your allies. It would have resulted in the Quarians using their natural affinity to AI to return the Geth to their control.

Why did they not want to foreshadow control with one of your allies? Because Control is a Reaper Choice. No the Illusive Man was not right after all.

Only your enemies foreshadow Synthesis and Control.

[DirtySHISN0]

would you trade yourself and your team for synthetics?

Already did with synthesis, all it required was shepard. Everyone else came out of it ok.

[thehomeworld]

Wait so let me get this straight you say instead of having the beam kill the geth you'd like the option to have it kill off another species instead? So basically the guys who scream genocide still do that and it changes nothing gotcha...

The geth volunteered as in the whole of the geth took a vote and they came up for laying down their lives the same poll could not be done by any other race. We took them up on their offer I see no conflict or problem with killing them off to save the galaxy. The reapers committed tons of genocide we had to only do it twice (reapers and the geth) to stop the war a necessary evil that did what it was suppose to guarantee the reapers are no longer a threat to the galaxy.

Modifié par thehomeworld, 08 juin 2013 - 06:21 .

[hpjay]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

IceHawk-181 wrote...

Dextro Milk wrote...

IceHawk-181 wrote...

When faced with slavery or death they chose slavery.

Willingly choosing to aid another race of machines in killing all life in the galaxy... Bad move.

It doesn't take a genious to figure out you would die in that situation as well, but hey, we're talking about the geth here... 

That is kind of the point here:
 
You have two choices:
 
Join a morally repugnant power in its genocidal drive to wipe out organics and survive.
 
or
 
Refuse and watch your entire species become extinct.
 
You have 5-seconds to decide.
 

There was a third choice: We surrender.

More along the lines of "stop the Quarians" though once the Geth are under Reaper control, we have to deal with them regardless now.

I blame the Quarians completely though for the Geth going over to the Reapers. It was a terrible choice, and a terrible decision, but I really can't find myself blaming the Geth.

As my Shepard says after the Geth Dreadnought and punching Gerrel, "If I didn't need your fleet..."

He'd have left the Quarians to their fate at the hands of the Geth, with no remorse or guilt.

Of course. Your Shepard is an idealistic idiot. Mine is a pragmatist. The Geth could also have surrendered to the Quarians instead of siding with the Reapers.

I told Gerrel to counter attack as soon as the shields were down on that dreadnought. We got off the dreadnought safely. The idea was, "Okay now that we're in this war, let's win it and get it over with."

The Geth could have surrendered to the Quarians. Why was that option never explored? I'll tell you why. Because they didn't want to foreshadow control with one of your allies. It would have resulted in the Quarians using their natural affinity to AI to return the Geth to their control.

Why did they not want to foreshadow control with one of your allies? Because Control is a Reaper Choice. No the Illusive Man was not right after all.

Only your enemies foreshadow Synthesis and Control.

 I think its implied that if the Geth surrendered, the Quartians would simply destroy them.  The Quarians didn't want to regain control of the Geth, they wanted to destroy the Geth AI.

[S.A.K]

Ryzaki wrote...

S.A.K wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

I guess I'm the only person here who's a destroyer and actually likes the Geth more than the Quarians.

You are not alone. I pick the Geth over the Quarians every time. Much much prefer the Geth (even ME3 Geth) over the Quarians.

Now if the question was sacrifice the Quarians for the Geth...I'd do that every time.

Alas I have to make due with destroyed Rannoch slide because go go contrived all synthetics must die garbage.

*snip* 
Sorry, I couldn't help it. If you like dead Geth better(like me), you might actually enjoy the ending.

Cute. Tali (along with the rest of the quarians) are still dead though.

So? Should I give a damn about your playthrough?

[Ryzaki]

S.A.K wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

S.A.K wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

I guess I'm the only person here who's a destroyer and actually likes the Geth more than the Quarians.

You are not alone. I pick the Geth over the Quarians every time. Much much prefer the Geth (even ME3 Geth) over the Quarians.

Now if the question was sacrifice the Quarians for the Geth...I'd do that every time.

Alas I have to make due with destroyed Rannoch slide because go go contrived all synthetics must die garbage.

*snip* 
Sorry, I couldn't help it. If you like dead Geth better(like me), you might actually enjoy the ending.

Cute. Tali (along with the rest of the quarians) are still dead though.

So? Should I give a damn about your playthrough?

Now now don't get touchy after starting the light trolling. If you can't take it don't dish it.

[S.A.K]

hpjay wrote...
I think its implied that if the Geth surrendered, the Quartians would simply destroy them.  The Quarians didn't want to regain control of the Geth, they wanted to destroy the Geth AI.

I doubt that. If the Geth offered the Quarians a chance to return home in exchange for peace, they would have accepted it imo. They wanted their world back and didn't really have a peaceful way to do so. Besides many Quarians including some admirals don't even want a war. I don't see why they wouldn't accept a peaceful way if they had one. Even Garrel holds fire when Shepard explains the situation.

That couldn't be worse than becoming Reaper slaves and helping them destroy everything.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

thehomeworld wrote...

Wait so let me get this straight you say instead of having the beam kill the geth you'd like the option to have it kill off another species instead? So basically the guys who scream genocide still do that and it changes nothing gotcha...

The geth volunteered as in the whole of the geth took a vote and they came up for laying down their lives the same poll could not be done by any other race. We took them up on their offer I see no conflict or problem with killing them off to save the galaxy. The reapers committed tons of genocide we had to only do it twice (reapers and the geth) to stop the war a necessary evil that did what it was suppose to guarantee the reapers are no longer a threat to the galaxy.

Yeah, that's what these suit-wetters are proposing. They do not understand that it fixes nothing. It's the way Walters screwed up the ending that is the problem. It isn't destroying the Geth that is the problem with the ending for me. It is the way Walters pissed all over relationships and friendships in the game, and ripped what was left away in the end. Try playing as femShep and romance Thane or Jacob in ME2.

I don't give a damn about the reapers or the Catalyst's problem. I just want them dead. I don't consider killing them genocide. This isn't about right or wrong. It's about survival. We fight or we die. That stupid idiotic crucible ending.

[S.A.K]

Ryzaki wrote...

S.A.K wrote...

So? Should I give a damn about your playthrough?

Now now don't get touchy after starting the light trolling. If you can't take it don't dish it.

I wasn't trolling at all. You do have to deal with the conditions the Catalyst provide you with, don't you?

Either Shepard dies and Geth live along with Reapers or Shepard lives and Reapers die along with the Geth. You are pretty much forced to pick either of those or resort to a fanfic like MEHEM. Lucky for me, the second option is perfect for my MO.

Modifié par S.A.K, 08 juin 2013 - 06:45 .

[Jafroboy]

Nope.

[Ryzaki]

S.A.K wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

S.A.K wrote...

So? Should I give a damn about your playthrough?

Now now don't get touchy after starting the light trolling. If you can't take it don't dish it.

I wasn't trolling at all. You do have to deal with the conditions the Catalyst provide you with, don't you?

Either Shepard dies and Geth live along with Reapers or Shepard lives and Reapers die along with the Geth. You are pretty much forced to pick either of those or resort to a fanfic like MEHEM. Lucky for me, the second option is perfect for my MO.

And luckily for me HC is king and I play on PC so MEHEM works just fine  might be fanfic but it's better than the garbage that's the original.

[Iakus]

Ryzaki wrote...

And luckily for me HC is king and I play on PC so MEHEM works just fine  might be fanfic but it's better than the garbage that's the original.

::fistbump::

Also MEHEM doesnt' have a "destroyed Rannoch" slide for siding with the geth 

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

hpjay wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Of course. Your Shepard is an idealistic idiot. Mine is a pragmatist. The Geth could also have surrendered to the Quarians instead of siding with the Reapers.

I told Gerrel to counter attack as soon as the shields were down on that dreadnought. We got off the dreadnought safely. The idea was, "Okay now that we're in this war, let's win it and get it over with."

The Geth could have surrendered to the Quarians. Why was that option never explored? I'll tell you why. Because they didn't want to foreshadow control with one of your allies. It would have resulted in the Quarians using their natural affinity to AI to return the Geth to their control.

Why did they not want to foreshadow control with one of your allies? Because Control is a Reaper Choice. No the Illusive Man was not right after all.

Only your enemies foreshadow Synthesis and Control.

I think its implied that if the Geth surrendered, the Quartians would simply destroy them.  The Quarians didn't want to regain control of the Geth, they wanted to destroy the Geth AI.

Not true at all. Mac Walters missed that part of ME2. That was Admiral Xen's plan to use Rael's research to fight the war to take back the home world, and reduce the geth in numbers enough to where they could bring them back under Quarian control. But Xen's role got minimized in ME3 to a few lines. Raan could tell you which way the wind was blowing. Koris was such a suit-wetter and Geth apologist on the other extreme, and Gerrel was an old warship just looking to fire the guns at the Geth.

Remember you would have learned on Thessia from Vendetta about
something controlling the reapers on the Citadel before Kai Leng showed up just as
Vendetta was getting to this part about the Catalyst.

They originally had plans for some more stuff involving Xen, but those were cut because if they were carried to fruition, people would have protested even more -- "why did we have to stop her? She was hot on the trail." Because it would have destroyed Walters' Starbrat ending -- she would have found the Leviathan Intelligence on the Citadel. The quest is in bits and pieces on the PC disks. You as the player would have wanted to destroy the Intelligence and they couldn't have that happen. Instead the end of that quest had you either kill Xen or arrest her and ship her off to the Crucible. Hence they dropped it. Probably because it would have made Shepard commit another act of stupidity. MY Shepard, being a total pragmatist would have gone along with her.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 08 juin 2013 - 06:59 .

[Rafficus III]

Morocco Mole wrote...

hornedfrog87 wrote...
I think you're discrediting the Quarians and other races prematurely. Both EDI and the Geth have the possibility to be rebuilt, however this then delves into the whole "life" quandry. In a very simplistic answer: yes, they can be rebuilt but there will be a catch like you pointed out.

And the catch would be that it isn't the geth or EDI.

Like I said, you're discrediting the other races prematurely by saying you know without a doubt that it cannot be replicated.

[S.A.K]

Ryzaki wrote...

S.A.K wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

S.A.K wrote...

So? Should I give a damn about your playthrough?

Now now don't get touchy after starting the light trolling. If you can't take it don't dish it.

I wasn't trolling at all. You do have to deal with the conditions the Catalyst provide you with, don't you?

Either Shepard dies and Geth live along with Reapers or Shepard lives and Reapers die along with the Geth. You are pretty much forced to pick either of those or resort to a fanfic like MEHEM. Lucky for me, the second option is perfect for my MO.

And luckily for me HC is king and I play on PC so MEHEM works just fine  might be fanfic but it's better than the garbage that's the original.

Well I play on PC as well and I am fine with the real thing. A bunch of re-used cut-scenes and audio tracks is not my thing. But glad you like it. It'll be fine till they make a sequal or something.

[Ryzaki]

S.A.K wrote...
Well I play on PC as well and I am fine with the real thing. A bunch of re-used cut-scenes and audio tracks is not my thing. But glad you like it. It'll be fine till they make a sequal or something.

You say that as if a sequel could reconcile control/destory/synthesis without either making all ends lead to the same thing or retconning one of the decisions anyway. If they decide to follow the ending of ME3 everything either ends up a homogenous blob due to restricted resources (which...yay?) or they choose a canon and stick with it.

That and reused cutscenes and audio tracks are far far superior IMO than the steaming pile of bull**** that is starbrat and his bull**** logic. Sure it's not all that OMG SUPERB but hey. Doesn't need to be. That's how utterly terrible I feel the original ending was. I'll take reused cutscenes and audio tracks over it. (especially considering the OC endings had a high ratio of copy pasta with a sprinkling of different colors!)

iakus wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

And luckily for me HC is king and I play on PC so MEHEM works just fine  might be fanfic but it's better than the garbage that's the original.

::fistbump::

Also MEHEM doesnt' have a "destroyed Rannoch" slide for siding with the geth [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]

yay!

Modifié par Ryzaki, 08 juin 2013 - 07:10 .