45 réponses à ce sujet

[Cosmicinator]

 I have no intention of starting a flame war here, I am just extremely curious as to what everyone here considers to be, not the best, not the most fun to play, but the canonical origin story; by canonical in this sense means that it works best with the story and makes the eventual 'becoming a Warden' lark seem more realistic and understandable, and also has good repercussions later in the game.

If anyone here wants my thoughts on the matter, I think the Dalish elf origin does the best for the story, you having to join the Grey Warden's because of the Darkspawn! The problem with all of the other origins (Maybe discounting the dwarven noble origin) is that you just join the wardens, unaware of the evil they face. As a Dalish elf, you see death and destruction delivered by the Darkspawn, and are forced to join the wardens to save your life.

Tamlen also makes as a good red-shirt character to see the pain the Darkspawn inflict on people, tainted or not. His reappearance later in the campaign is also rather suitable, but I won't spoil that...

But I'd like to hear your thoughts on the matter, elaborate!

Modifié par Cosmicinator, 17 janvier 2010 - 03:11 .

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

I'll go through them all and explain my theories on whether they would make the best.

Dwarf Noble - IMO the most ironic of them all, ignoring the whole 'betrayal by your brother' thing and skipping to where the noble ends up. The same place he will probably end up in 30 years time so to some extent its perfect for the canon warden because your already doing what wardens do by the end of the origin.

Dwarf Commoner/City Elf/Mage - Clumped these two together because to some extent the ending of the origin is pretty much identical... join the wardens or get executed/sent to prison/tranquilled . This to some extent brings some backstory to the Wardens that they'll take on anyone even people considered 'criminals' by the law of where they are. So again to some extent has its reasonings for being the canon warden. Each of them of course also has fairly nice chunks of their past creeping into the story.

Human Noble - From a pure 'warden' point of view for the story, probably the weakest, but from the whole 'story' main bulk of the 'story' PoV, probably one of the strongest thanks to the connection with Howe.

Dalish Elf - I can see where you are coming from regarding the darkspawn and taint, the fact that you survived that incident would definitly make you a prime candidate in Duncan's eyes. The only slight issue is that there is no real connection in the rest of the story. I suppose to some extent that does make it one of the best because then you definitly are just left with the fact that you are a 'Warden'

I think if I truly had to pick one as the canonical origin it would be the dwarf noble. At the end of the origin, you have been stripped of everything and left to walk the deep roads fighting all that is in there till dead. So basically apart from not having the taint, you are being a Grey Warden, someone whose past is all now behind them and who will be fighting darkspawn till they die.

[Captain Crash]

I like it how Duncan always appears at the right time to save you. Even though logically all the origin stories happen at the same time period. The Human Noble Origin works really well because you always end up going back to the Howe fight. Plus you have more options at the end game, like becoming King or Queen.

[Costin_Razvan]

The Dwarf Noble one.

[AsheraII]

I found the Dalish one to be the most realistic, with passing through the ritual being the only way to survive the disease spreading through your body.

The human noble one felt a bit forced, I mean, it felt like other logical options that should have been there were not given, and because of that you were forced to join the Grey Wardens. I mean, I could've escaped the castle on my own, without Duncan tbh. So I really feel that a non Grey Warden human noble should've been possible.

Same with the Dwarven origins. Becoming a Grey Warden felt a bit "forced upon me", and not like an act of survival.

[SusanStoHelit]

If we're going not with most fun, or what I liked best, but what fits the story in and of itself, I think there are 3 candidates.

Dwarf Noble - born and raised to fight the darkspawn (not true of the casteless, who aren't trusted to be included). Fighting darkspawn in this instance seems very ... karmic.

Human Noble - as already pointed out, it just slots so well into the whole story - powerful connections with Howe and with the entire political structure of Ferelden, the Couslands are also raised to do their duty and fight for their country.

Dalish Elf - this origin puts the grey warden completely outside the Ferelden political structure, with the emphasis on being a Warden. They have a very personal reason to hate the darkspawn, having personal experience of them before becoming a warden. Also importantly, although being outsiders they are not viewed with as much distrust as the mages, or contempt as the City Elves, with the Dalish being held in general high regard at the end of the game (if you recruited them). This makes them the most logical of the other candidates, I think.

Edit: Upon reflection, since the dwarf noble can end up being nominated for king of Orzammar, they may not be the most suitable. The same could be said of the human noble - divided loyalties. So probably the best candidate then, story wise, is Dalish elf.

Modifié par SusanStoHelit, 17 janvier 2010 - 01:36 .

[Ulicus]

OP: So what you're really asking is what people think to be the most fitting origin story in terms of the greater plot? "Canonical" isn't the word I'd have chosen.



Uh, I don't know, really. I tend to think whichever origin I'm currently playing is the best one for the story.

Captain Crash...

I like it how Duncan always appears at the right time to save you. Even though logically all the origin stories happen at the same time period.

Yeah, but logically the origin stories you're not playing happen without Duncan's involvement. If Duncan recruits your human noble, it means he didn't go to Orzammar and thus wasn't there to save Aeducan or Brosca.



Though I suppose there's a degree of cross-over with the dwarven origins if you play one of them... I guess when Brosca isn't recruited he/she just fails to get out of his cell.

[Xandurpein]

I think that the most forced beginning was Mage orgin. I loved the first part with the Harrowing, but it felt extremely contrieved that I could only choose to either activly help Jowan or tell on him. I really felt herded into making a choice I'd rather ignore. I kept searching for other options to get out.

You could argue that the human noble is the canonical beginning since it's a human warrior who appears as PC in all the CGI trailers, but on the other hand I thought the whole point of the orgin stories are that they should be equally valid all of them. So my final vote is all or none.

Modifié par Xandurpein, 17 janvier 2010 - 03:28 .

[ReubenLiew]

Human noble that dual wields greatswords with a shield on his back.

And I know this because I saw the artwork!

[beelzeybob]

../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png Anyone notice the elf that's locked up in the Arl Howe's dungeons level, when you are rescuing the queen? (if you are any origin other than City Elf)

Apparently Duncan was never there to bail him out... therefore he got arrested for saving his fiance. I wonder if there are any more origin easter eggs like that.

[ReubenLiew]

You get mention of the second son of Aeducan that mysteriously died, I remember that...

[Sinsational]

ReubenLiew wrote...

You get mention of the second son of Aeducan that mysteriously died, I remember that...

Actually, it's mention of Trian being murdered and the second son getting the blame. You can probably assume from there that he was exiled, then died fighting the darkspawn.

[legbamel]

And of course Jowan is there and Ser Otto tells you how he destroyed his phylactery and blinded him. (Or was that the guy in the dungeon? Either way, it comes up again.)

[OldMan91]

I'll go with the one from the CGI trailers. Human Warrior... the only one with that origin is the Human Noble.

[highcastle]

I think the one with most mentions and ties into the main plot is the human noble. I'd played mage and city elf first before picking up this one, and was struck by how much more my background mattered. And of course Howe is such an important boss later on. Then I went and played Dalish, which probably ties into the plot the least. I couldn't get a feel for the character and eventually scrapped that playthrough around Landsmeet time.

[Some Dude On The Internet]

I'm going with Mabari noble / kills Morrigan and romances Flemeth / secretly royal bastard but older than Allistair (in dog years), so becomes new king (after VERY dark ritual with Oghren)...

[beelzeybob]

Dark ritual with Oghren?! You know, that should actually be a story choice for female grey wardens. Like male wardens have to do Morrigan.

[Cosmicinator]

13eelzebub wrote...

Dark ritual with Oghren?! You know, that should actually be a story choice for female grey wardens. Like male wardens have to do Morrigan.

*Vomits*

Well, we are beginning to go slightly off topic aren't we?

highcastle wrote...

...Then I went and played Dalish, which probably ties into the plot the least. I couldn't get a feel for the character and eventually scrapped that playthrough around Landsmeet time.

I played a playthrough as a human noble and it was like that, I think we have opposite stances... But I think the Dalish Elf origin ties perfectly into the story due to it having small impacts only on dialogue (mostly), and putting priority on the character not the world. As a noble I found killing Howe-- the supposed climax of your story was lackluster, you got to insult him, stab him, and watch him die; I would have a least liked to be able to grossly mutilate him!

[Joshd21]

This is NOT star wars, there is no canon

[Cosmicinator]

Joshd21 wrote...

This is NOT star wars, there is no canon

I like it how you did not read the OP...

Modifié par Cosmicinator, 17 janvier 2010 - 06:23 .

[Thiefy]

Sinsational wrote...

ReubenLiew wrote...

You get mention of the second son of Aeducan that mysteriously died, I remember that...

Actually, it's mention of Trian being murdered and the second son getting the blame. You can probably assume from there that he was exiled, then died fighting the darkspawn.

there's also the part of freeing leske in jarvia's dungeon. he mentions his friend and him had a stupid bet and ended up being locked in the dungeon. his friend lost it and stopped eating one day until he died. you actually see a corpse in the other cell too. i'm pretty sure it's supposed to be male brosca....

[CapricornSun]

For me it would have to be these origins:

Dalish Elf - I think this would have to be the most realistic in terms of 'becoming a Warden'. Like Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien mentioned, the Dwarf Commoner/Mage/City Elf origins have similarities in the sense that they were going to be punished for the actions they did in their respective origins stories before Duncan recruited them. For the Dalish, s/he actually gets infected with the darkspawn taint and has to go through the Joining in order for them to survive. Not to mention that the Dalish Elf is one of only two origin stories that actually get to battle darkspawn before arriving at Ostagar so they have an idea of the threat that the rest of Fereldan would have to face. Unfortunately, the Dalish Elf origin has the least ties with the main plot, which is sad since this is my favorite origin.

Dwarf Noble - This would come a close second in terms of 'becoming a Warden'. Sure, the Dwarf Noble has to go through the "join the Grey Wardens or die" route like the origins mentioned above but like the Dalish Elf origin, the Dwarf Noble actually battled darkspawn and are aware of  the threat that the surface world are facing.

Human Noble - This origin has the best connection with the main story since your nemesis Howe is Loghain's right-hand man. And the nobles of the Landsmeet actually know you as Bryce Cousland's youngest child which I feel makes you feel pretty important as a main character. It's a pity that your final confrontation with Howe was a bit anti-climatic. IMO, they could have done more with it. And when it comes to 'becoming a Warden', I felt that it was a bit weak even though I loved the whole drama regarding your parents at the end of the origin story.

Modifié par CapricornSun83, 18 janvier 2010 - 04:36 .

[Giles_Warrior_Champion]

SusanStoHelit wrote...

If we're going not with most fun, or what I liked best, but what fits the story in and of itself, I think there are 3 candidates.

Dwarf Noble - born and raised to fight the darkspawn (not true of the casteless, who aren't trusted to be included). Fighting darkspawn in this instance seems very ... karmic.

Human Noble - as already pointed out, it just slots so well into the whole story - powerful connections with Howe and with the entire political structure of Ferelden, the Couslands are also raised to do their duty and fight for their country.

Dalish Elf - this origin puts the grey warden completely outside the Ferelden political structure, with the emphasis on being a Warden. They have a very personal reason to hate the darkspawn, having personal experience of them before becoming a warden. Also importantly, although being outsiders they are not viewed with as much distrust as the mages, or contempt as the City Elves, with the Dalish being held in general high regard at the end of the game (if you recruited them). This makes them the most logical of the other candidates, I think.

Edit: Upon reflection, since the dwarf noble can end up being nominated for king of Orzammar, they may not be the most suitable. The same could be said of the human noble - divided loyalties. So probably the best candidate then, story wise, is Dalish elf.

Ya i agree that the noble feels forced. I mean he invokes the right of conscription but whats he going to do if you basically say no even then........hes either going to kill you in front of your parents are hes going to force you to swallow the blood? i mean yes you could easily have escaped the castle duncan does nothing except walk out of the castle with you...

[wwwwowwww]

I see that a few think that the Human Noble was a bit forced Grey Warden wise but fit in best with the overall political view.



What most seem to be leaving out is the following, Duncan came to Highover to find a Grey Warden, he exploited the situation at hand in order to get his recruit, but you had your own motivations to go to Ostagar. Your brother is there and you need to tell him what's going on first and foremost before ever seeking revenge. So really joining the Wardens isn't that forced it becomes a means to an end for you.

When you get to Ostagar you find out your brother is in the wilds, so you can't reach him until after the battle. It's implied that becoming a Grey Warden his an honor and makes you stronger against the darkspawn, so if your going to be in a war anyways, why wouldn't you join? When the battle is over you can always find your brother and deal with Howe.

That is if your not using your ability to know how the game is going to actually play out

[Mikka-chan]

Hm. I think the lack of the Dwarf Noble is the one that leaves the biggest effect on the world. The mysterious 'second son' plot hook dangles in Orzammar, and I know people who have gone around trying to find this second son. I'm not sure if that makes it more 'canon'/likely, but I think it is worth noting.

Human Noble has the largest tie with the background of the story, but the weakest reason to become a Gray Warden (save for a Mage who told on Jowan- that one's just sort of like, 'Er, well, the plot needs a Gray Warden, and... uh, you're cool! Go on! Gregy will probably glower dubiously at you all the time if you don't! RITE OF CONSCRIPTION!'). The big tie in with Howe probably cancels out the lack of reason for becoming a Gray Warden, though.

Dalish is the origin that makes the most sense- there is every reason in the world to go run off with Duncan, as you'll die and possibly harm your clan horribly if you don't. There's absolutely no connection with the outside plot, though, save for that one dangling string- still, that might be good for a Gray Warden.

So I would go with one of the three- Dwarf Noble, Human Noble, or Dalish Elf. (Elf Dalish?) As I like Dwarf Noble most of them, I'd go with that- besides, fighting your lonely way through the tunnels to Duncan is a pretty badass start for a pretty cool character, and then being named Living Paragon almost tops it. The other two make complete sense as well, though.