1799 réponses à ce sujet

[Lotion Soronarr]

Xilizhra wrote...

Before anything, anything else, the templars must be eradicated. Surrendered ones will be permitted to live if possible. After that, we'll need to build up something new with the mages, the possibilities of which we'll see when we get there.

While I think the way how mages are treated is wrong and I totally
understand their uprising its better to fight for the templars

Never in ten thousand years. Every last one of them who continues to stand against us will burn.

Oh boy....

[Ieldra]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

The Woldan wrote...
It's not easy to pick sides, templars have a point and so do the mages.

However, I think Thedas would slide into chaos if the mages won the war and crushed the templars and their support.

This.  If you put a gun to my head and made me choose, I'd have to take the templars.

I don't see much chaos in Tevinter. There are other evils there, of course, but I'd take any bet that they don't let abominations run rampant there. There really is no reason why mage freedom would result in widespread chaos.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 13 juin 2013 - 12:44 .

[Xilizhra]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Not yet, but how long would that last? Also, why would you be joining the templar side if you thought there was a chance for peace?

I was just being silly and covered in ketchup   I don't particularly care for the templars or the mages, but I'd much rather try and find a solution that addresses both sides than pick one.

Of course, we all saw how well that went in DA2 <_<

Keep in mind that the point of DA2 was that it's literally impossible to find a genuine compromise. Elthina was either deluded or deliberately fostering the conflict.

That actually creeped me out a little. You know it's fiction, right?

Yes, and? Tyrants are tyrants regardless of medium, and it's easier to get into it in fiction.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 13 juin 2013 - 12:46 .

[jtav]

Generally speaking, I'm more sympathetic to the templars, though more needs to be done to stop the likes of Alrik. Much more. Divorce them from the Chantry, wean them off lyrium, and train guards and soldiers in their techniques. Perhaps then we can work on overhauling the Circle.

[Steelcan]

Mages.  The Templars are ingrained in Chantry thought, even if they have splintered.  And I'd like to burn everything associated with the Chantry.

Modifié par Steelcan, 13 juin 2013 - 01:45 .

[The Elder King]

I'd like to point out that we might not be able to definitely end this war in DAI, or even take a direct side (other than expressing our beliefs) in an hypothetical plot. For all we know, mages and templars might decide to postpone the war until the demon threat is over.

[Hadeedak]

At a safe distance, shaking my head in smug protagonist superiority.

Iunno, depends how it's presented. I'm due to go mages if I'm swapping off in games, but Kirkwall kind of made me super-nervous about what happens when you get random normal people anywhere near crazy mages, so.... Well! I'll see how it goes!

[Steelcan]

hhh89 wrote...

I'd like to point out that we might not be able to definitely end this war in DAI, or even take a direct side (other than expressing our beliefs) in an hypothetical plot. For all we know, mages and templars might decide to postpone the war until the demon threat is over.

. Because people always put aside their differences for the common good?

[The Elder King]

Steelcan wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

I'd like to point out that we might not be able to definitely end this war in DAI, or even take a direct side (other than expressing our beliefs) in an hypothetical plot. For all we know, mages and templars might decide to postpone the war until the demon threat is over.

. Because people always put aside their differences for the common good?

Not the common good. The fact that they risk to be wiped out if they weaken themselves  with another war when a bigger threat is present. From the mage side, defeating the templars isn't that important if at the same time this victory will lead to their deaths. The opposite should be true as well.

Modifié par hhh89, 13 juin 2013 - 02:08 .

[Steelcan]

hhh89 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

I'd like to point out that we might not be able to definitely end this war in DAI, or even take a direct side (other than expressing our beliefs) in an hypothetical plot. For all we know, mages and templars might decide to postpone the war until the demon threat is over.

. Because people always put aside their differences for the common good?

Not the common good. The fact that they risk to be wiped out if they weaken themselves  with another war when a bigger threat is present. From the mage side, defeating the templars isn't that important if at the same time this victory will lead to their deaths. The opposite should be true as well.

. Did you play ME3?

[The Elder King]

So? ME3 wasn't written by the same writers (at least most of them), it's a completely different setting, and ultimately the fact that it didn't happen there doesn't mean that in a game with a similar situation the same would happen.
Besides, I'm not saying that they'd surely make an armistice, just that there is the possibility. I don't care what they'd do as long as it's well written.

[Steelcan]

hhh89 wrote...

So? ME3 wasn't written by the same writers (at least most of them), it's a completely different setting, and ultimately the fact that it didn't happen there doesn't mean that in a game with a similar situation the same would happen.
Besides, I'm not saying that they'd surely make an armistice, just that there is the possibility. I don't care what they'd do as long as it's well written.

.  Throughout media, video games certainly inclusive, one of the best ways to show how extraordinary the protagonist is, is to have him unite peoples who are already engaged in warfare against each other.  We saw this in ME, Skyrim, the races in DA:O weren't at war, but they weren't on great terms exactly and certainly were not united.  Simply put it, this is an often used, I hesitate to call it a trope, tactic in a multitude of stories.  Expect the Templars and Mages to be at war even if another Blight crops up.

[Nightdragon8]

We saw it in Skyrim??? I've sided with the Empire and the Storm cloaks. and ended up killing either side. Sure there is the "bring everyone together" thing but I honestly don't see that peace lasting to the point past when Alduin is dead... I just don't see it sorry.

Also thats why it isn't another blight but something much much worse.

Edit: OT, Honestly, I will have to wait to see how the sides have conductied there wars. What i mean is, do they attack civiain centers for no good reason, Etc.

I understand what the Mages are fighting for, but sadly they need to win the hearts and minds of the "people" aka non-mages to win the war, and not the body count of how many templars they stack up.

Modifié par Nightdragon8, 13 juin 2013 - 02:54 .

[The Elder King]

Steelcan wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

So? ME3 wasn't written by the same writers (at least most of them), it's a completely different setting, and ultimately the fact that it didn't happen there doesn't mean that in a game with a similar situation the same would happen.
Besides, I'm not saying that they'd surely make an armistice, just that there is the possibility. I don't care what they'd do as long as it's well written.

.  Throughout media, video games certainly inclusive, one of the best ways to show how extraordinary the protagonist is, is to have him unite peoples who are already engaged in warfare against each other.  We saw this in ME, Skyrim, the races in DA:O weren't at war, but they weren't on great terms exactly and certainly were not united.  Simply put it, this is an often used, I hesitate to call it a trope, tactic in a multitude of stories.  Expect the Templars and Mages to be at war even if another Blight crops up.

Fair enough, though I was mostly referring to the hypothesis of mages and templars fighting and not stopping even with the protagonist's help.

[Tarek]

its a trap to get ride of them both, a darker force is a work here

[craigdolphin]

I just hope DAI doesn't constantly hit us over the head with the mage-templar conflict as DA2 did. If I had to choose, I'd side with mages, but if there isn't some more diversity in the themes being explored this time around it'll be a pretty dull game. I was sick to death of the mage-templar issue by mid-way through Act II of DA2.

[SamFlagg]

I think where I stand on the Mage Templar war will largely depend on what information I'm presented in the first 10 or so minutes of the game.

Let's presume I'm farmilar with the events in DA1 and 2 from an outsiders point of view.

If the Warden/Warden Commander were both not mages, at best I would presume there would be a grudging respect for any Mages who were companions of the Warden.  But let's face it, this respect would exist in Ferelden and basically nowhere else.  Since no blight really got a chance to materialize most probably would consider it a minor blip in history.  (The only way you care is if you know it was a for real honest to goodness blight)

If the Warden was a mage, again you're herleded in Ferelden, but that's about it.  More than likely anywhere outside of that will play up the fact that you're a Warden over being a mage.

So at best, from DA1, Mages might be accepted in Ferelden.  That and 5 bucks will get you coffee anywhere else.

In DA2 you have the status Quo throughout Thedas gradually deteriorating.  There are two facts in play

1) Meredith was being corrupted by a Lyrium Idol and almost certainly taking it out on the Mages.
2) Anders blew up the Chantry.

As an outsider you'd probably have no idea that there was outside corruption, but you could probably make a reasonable interpretation that Meredith had gone too far and was going farther and did need to be stopped.  However unless you were already sympathetic to the Mages, you would see this as an isolated incident.

Anders blowing up the Chanty with the Grand Mother inside on the otherhand..........It is inexcusable as anything other than demanding that this entire thing be settled with buckets of blood.  There is more or less no chance that as soon as that happens nearly every templar order isn't given the option to invoke the rite of annulment.  And conversely if you're the mages, I can't imagine most of them are going to stand by and get annulled.  So at that point the war is inevitable.

Anders himself clerely bears the lions share of the blame but thats irrellevant once the war starts.  (Should you have not dispatched with Anders in DA2, I can't see how he can possibly be left alive should you encounter him in DA3.  No matter his reasons, he murdered probably the one and only semi neutral observer to spark a civil war.  He has to pay for that, because frankly all the rest of the mages are paying for that act.

Who is in the right in the war by the time the game opens will largely be based on who has managed to not commit the most atrocities along the way.

Honestly, what a nice solution could be would be to basically take the Templars away from the Chantry and make them a separate non darkspawn blood drinking branch of the wardens.  If theres a blight?  Hunt darkspawn, when there isn't a blight, take down any mage that's trying to rule over people. 

[Dave of Canada]

Ieldra2 wrote...

I don't see much chaos in Tevinter. There are other evils there, of course, but I'd take any bet that they don't let abominations run rampant there. There really is no reason why mage freedom would result in widespread chaos.

Tevinter Templar do almost everything that the Chantry Templar does everywhere else. One could argue Tevinter not being plagued by abominations a result of Tevinter's own Templar Order and restrictions imposed on socially lower mages.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 13 juin 2013 - 06:28 .

[PinkShoes]

I just dont want either side to be the "evil" or "good" side.

[Dova]

I'll probably go until I'm forced to pick a side like I was at the end of DA:2.
Otherwise I'll go neutral and let them duke it out.

But even though I helped mages in DA:2 I also helped the templars with certain things that Justice needed to be seen fit in the circumstances.

But, I'll probably help the mages, like I did at the end of DA:2.

[RedArmyShogun]

On the Broken Bodies of my Dead Enemies.

[Sutekh]

Pro-mages, with reservations.

But truth is, sometimes, I'd love to lock them Templars and Mages in a soundproof room and throw away the damn key. 

Will we have that opportunity? 

[Sable Rhapsody]

Xilizhra wrote...
Keep in mind that the point of DA2 was that it's literally impossible to find a genuine compromise. Elthina was either deluded or deliberately fostering the conflict.

Oh, Elthina.  I could rant for pages about that useless old paperweight.  I played two very different Hawkes, and and the end of each of their stories, I wanted to shake her like a rag doll.

Sutekh wrote...
But truth is, sometimes, I'd love to lock them Templars and Mages in a soundproof room and throw away the damn key. 

Will we have that opportunity? 

I don't think we will, but it's nice to dream 

[AstraDrakkar]

I stand firmly on my own two feet. Well one foot anyway since the other one is currently broken.