1799 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

Never can be too sure about a person's gender when all you see is a picture of a character from a video game, lol. But that aside, I was just stating why we've run into the fire a few times in the past when I was a vocal supporter of the Templar... and before that I supported mages, and we thought a lot a like but still got into it once or twice about war being the answer. But now that war is on us that point is moot.

I should point out that templars who surrender wouldn't need to be killed, of course.

[Mr.House]

ParatrooperSean wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

ParatrooperSean wrote...

So, after 21 pages have we finally settled on the fact that imprisoning and subjugating people because of the way they were born is wrong?

So if someone is born with a illness that makes them dangerous, they should not be locked away to protect people? Because you know, we do that in real life.

I'm not following. Do you have an example illness?

Just go visit your local psychiatric hosptial and you will have your answers.

[bleetman]

ParatrooperSean wrote...

I think "more dangerous" is extremely difficult to say definitively. It's not something you can quantify. There are more than our fair share of extremely powerful and very unscrupulous warriors and rogues.

Your typical abomination isn't really harder to kill than your typical Jarvia trooper, for example. And even if you want to make that argument, DAO and DA2 has shown the circle creates more problems than it solves.

I feel like this is a consequence of gameplay and story being poorly implemented together. Because gameplay wise, you're right. Abominations are no big deal really. Story wise? They're indescribaly dangerous. Story wise, they're Connor, or Meredith's sister, and a single one can slaughter dozens and wipe out entire villages.

[Xilizhra]

bleetman wrote...

ParatrooperSean wrote...

I think "more dangerous" is extremely difficult to say definitively. It's not something you can quantify. There are more than our fair share of extremely powerful and very unscrupulous warriors and rogues.

Your typical abomination isn't really harder to kill than your typical Jarvia trooper, for example. And even if you want to make that argument, DAO and DA2 has shown the circle creates more problems than it solves.

I feel like this is a consequence of gameplay and story being poorly implemented together. Because gameplay wise, you're right. Abominations are no big deal really. Story wise? They're indescribaly dangerous. Story wise, they're Connor, or Meredith's sister, and a single one can slaughter dozens and wipe out entire villages.

Actually, the Connor abomination wasn't very personally powerful, it could just build up an undead army to the dirty work for it. I've got no idea how Meredith's sister worked; maybe she had really bad luck and was taken over by a pride demon or something.

[TCBC_Freak]

Xilizhra wrote...

Never can be too sure about a person's gender when all you see is a picture of a character from a video game, lol. But that aside, I was just stating why we've run into the fire a few times in the past when I was a vocal supporter of the Templar... and before that I supported mages, and we thought a lot a like but still got into it once or twice about war being the answer. But now that war is on us that point is moot.

I should point out that templars who surrender wouldn't need to be killed, of course.

Yeah, sorry, I over simplified it a bit...

[Dave of Canada]

So an abomination being able to raise a personal army isn't powerful?
and
Pride Demons wouldn't settle for possessing a child with no training.

[TCBC_Freak]

Xilizhra wrote...

bleetman wrote...

ParatrooperSean wrote...

I think "more dangerous" is extremely difficult to say definitively. It's not something you can quantify. There are more than our fair share of extremely powerful and very unscrupulous warriors and rogues.

Your typical abomination isn't really harder to kill than your typical Jarvia trooper, for example. And even if you want to make that argument, DAO and DA2 has shown the circle creates more problems than it solves.

I feel like this is a consequence of gameplay and story being poorly implemented together. Because gameplay wise, you're right. Abominations are no big deal really. Story wise? They're indescribaly dangerous. Story wise, they're Connor, or Meredith's sister, and a single one can slaughter dozens and wipe out entire villages.

Actually, the Connor abomination wasn't very personally powerful, it could just build up an undead army to the dirty work for it. I've got no idea how Meredith's sister worked; maybe she had really bad luck and was taken over by a pride demon or something.

Also, don't they get more powerful the longer they are in the world? And we've mostly only faced them right when they get into the real world and so aren't as strong, while others (bosses mostly) have been around much longer?

I could be miss-remembering but demons are confused and less powerful when they arrive, yes?

[Xilizhra]

Dave of Canada wrote...

So an abomination being able to raise a personal army isn't powerful?
and
Pride Demons wouldn't settle for possessing a child with no training.

It's effectively useless without a huge pile of corpses, or at least not enough for a decent and sufficiently equipped squad to take them down. And a pride demon might if there was an emotional resonance or just if it wanted to cause chaos for whatever reason.

[bleetman]

Something had to make the corpses to begin with. I doubt the Redcliffe castle garrison all just fell on their swords out of boredom.

As far as Meredith's sister goes, this is what she says about her.

[ParatrooperSean]

Mr.House wrote...

ParatrooperSean wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

ParatrooperSean wrote...

So, after 21 pages have we finally settled on the fact that imprisoning and subjugating people because of the way they were born is wrong?

So if someone is born with a illness that makes them dangerous, they should not be locked away to protect people? Because you know, we do that in real life.

I'm not following. Do you have an example illness?

Just go visit your local psychiatric hosptial and you will have your answers.

That's really grasping at straws. Psychiatric wards are there to treat people for mental illness. Having the gift of magic is not an illness. The circle isn't there to "cure" mages.
It's there because the Templars fear they will succumb to temptation, much the way Grand Cleric Elthins did.

[Mr.House]

Xilizhra wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

So an abomination being able to raise a personal army isn't powerful?
and
Pride Demons wouldn't settle for possessing a child with no training.

It's effectively useless without a huge pile of corpses, or at least not enough for a decent and sufficiently equipped squad to take them down. And a pride demon might if there was an emotional resonance or just if it wanted to cause chaos for whatever reason.

Connor almost wiped out Redcliffe and can if the Warden does not help. How is that not dangerous. We also see Connor can ,mind control people(Teagan anyone?)

[Mr.House]

ParatrooperSean wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

ParatrooperSean wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

ParatrooperSean wrote...

So, after 21 pages have we finally settled on the fact that imprisoning and subjugating people because of the way they were born is wrong?

So if someone is born with a illness that makes them dangerous, they should not be locked away to protect people? Because you know, we do that in real life.

I'm not following. Do you have an example illness?

Just go visit your local psychiatric hosptial and you will have your answers.

That's really grasping at straws. Psychiatric wards are there to treat people for mental illness. Having the gift of magic is not an illness. The circle isn't there to "cure" mages.
It's there because the Templars fear they will succumb to temptation, much the way Grand Cleric Elthins did.

Point missed I see, oh well.

[Lotion Soronarr]

ParatrooperSean wrote...
I think "more dangerous" is extremely difficult to say definitively. It's not something you can quantify. There are more than our fair share of extremely powerful and very unscrupulous warriors and rogues.

Your typical abomination isn't really harder to kill than your typical Jarvia trooper, for example. And even if you want to make that argument, DAO and DA2 has shown the circle creates more problems than it solves.

Consider the following words:
Game Balance
Class Balance
Encounter Balance


Hence why you can kill abominations like they're nothing.
Because it's a game and you're supposed to win and Bio decided to frak their own lore in favor of gameplay.

[GodWood]

ParatrooperSean wrote...
I think "more dangerous" is extremely difficult to say definitively.

No, no it isn't. With a flick of its wrist a mage can set you on fire, it can freeze you, it can electrocute you, it can explode you and can even brainwash you without anyone knowing.

On top of this, even without being malicious it can cause great amounts of harm during intense emotional moments by being possessed by a demon.

Obvious example: Redcliffe. One child conquers a town.

This debate should not be about whether mages are dangerous or not; their dangerousness is a given. what should be discussed is whether mage freedom is preferable then the safety of non-mages. 

Your typical abomination isn't really harder to kill than your typical Jarvia trooper, for example.

Gameplay/Story segregation. 

And even if you want to make that argument, DAO and DA2 has shown the circle creates more problems than it solves.

Not even slightly. The Circle prevented those cases from being far worse than what they were.

Out of curiosity, what special rights or privileges have certain mage supporters ask for?

I assume you are referring to the mage supremacists I spoke of?

Social Darwinist Magocracy.

Modifié par GodWood, 16 juin 2013 - 09:17 .

[ParatrooperSean]

GodWood wrote...

ParatrooperSean wrote...
I think "more dangerous" is extremely difficult to say definitively.

No, no it isn't. With a flick of its wrist a mage can set you on fire, it can freeze you, it can electrocute you, it can explode you and can even brainwash you without anyone knowing.

On top of this, even without being malicious it can cause great amounts of harm during intense emotional moments by being possessed by a demon.

Obvious example: Redcliffe. One child conquers a town.

This debate should not be about whether mages are dangerous or not; their dangerousness is a given. what should be discussed is whether mage freedom is preferable then the safety of non-mages. 

Your typical abomination isn't really harder to kill than your typical Jarvia trooper, for example.

Gameplay/Story segregation. 

And even if you want to make that argument, DAO and DA2 has shown the circle creates more problems than it solves.

Not even slightly. The Circle prevented those cases from being far worse than what they were.

Out of curiosity, what special rights or privileges have certain mage supporters ask for?

I assume you are referring to the mage supremacists I spoke of?

Social Darwinist Magocracy.

With a flick of their wrist any person can stab, bludgeon, behead or strike someone down with an arrow or bolt.

Twice now HUGE problems have happened in DAO and DA2 involving the circle. Once by mages going to extremes to free themselves from persecution. Another time by an (non-mage!) overzealous Grand Cleric Elthina. Uldred and the other mages went rogue out of desperation, and being in the circle gave them a mass pool of mages they could convert. Self defeating purpose, or so it seems.

The situation with Conor was because of the circle. It's just too bad she had to pay a blood mage to train Conor in secret. Without the circle she wouldn't have needed to turn to the black market.

The Dalish have managed to allow mages to live equally among them for thousands of years, with (relatively) little consequence. Saying the circle has helped more than it has hurt is purely speculative.

[garrusfan1]

Mr.House wrote...

ParatrooperSean wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

ParatrooperSean wrote...

So, after 21 pages have we finally settled on the fact that imprisoning and subjugating people because of the way they were born is wrong?

So if someone is born with a illness that makes them dangerous, they should not be locked away to protect people? Because you know, we do that in real life.

I'm not following. Do you have an example illness?

Just go visit your local psychiatric hosptial and you will have your answers.

uh difference is the psychiatric people that are locked away are likely to hurt someone or themselves or have done something bad mages are locked away even though most wouldn't hurt anyone. also your confused about people being locked away. after 24 hours unless you have a court order or they choose to stay they are free most of the homeless people are either addicts or people with major mental problems

[rwilli80]

If those are the only two options I will play both. That is if I even get it.. I am still not sold.

[Dave of Canada]

ParatrooperSean wrote...

With a flick of their wrist any person can stab, bludgeon, behead or strike someone down with an arrow or bolt.

Woah, that's comparative to blowing up cities? Never knew. 

The situation with Conor was because of the circle. It's just too bad she had to pay a blood mage to train Conor in secret. Without the circle she wouldn't have needed to turn to the black market.

Assuming the Circle was rebuilt without Templar, Isolde would've done the same damn thing. She didn't want to lose her son.

The Dalish have managed to allow mages to live equally among them for thousands of years, with (relatively) little consequence. Saying the circle has helped more than it has hurt is purely speculative.

And Dalish restrict how many mages can be in a clan, they're in far fewer numbers and they're nomadic. Comparing the Dalish to a larger system which considers an entire nation isn't going to do much.

[Xilizhra]

Assuming the Circle was rebuilt without Templar, Isolde would've done the same damn thing. She didn't want to lose her son.

And if she could have moved to and lived in the location, for instance? Or in a town right nearby.

[GodWood]

ParatrooperSean wrote...
With a flick of their wrist any person can stab, bludgeon, behead or strike someone down with an arrow or bolt.

And this is where I don't even bother.

[Dave of Canada]

Xilizhra wrote...

Assuming the Circle was rebuilt without Templar, Isolde would've done the same damn thing. She didn't want to lose her son.

And if she could have moved to and lived in the location, for instance? Or in a town right nearby.

Eamon already visits their child, Isolde could've done that too. They're already living in the closest community next to the Circle of Magi and have more than enough money for traveling to the Circle and back.

Isolde is just an over-protective mother, Templar or no.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 16 juin 2013 - 09:46 .

[bleetman]

ParatrooperSean wrote...

The Dalish have managed to allow mages to live equally among them for thousands of years, with (relatively) little consequence. Saying the circle has helped more than it has hurt is purely speculative.

The Dalish are a bit of an oddity to me. On the one hand we're told they occasionally have keepers becoming possessed, without anything more specific as that I believe. But let's assume it's a rarity, because if it wasn't the Dalish would presumably have ceased to exist long before now.

And then, of the two Dalish keepers we actually meet in game, one summoned a spirit with blood magic and unleashed werewolves, and the other ended up being willingly possessed as a (at least from her perspective, regardless of individual player opinion of the validity of that danger) last, desperate act to protect her protege from the same.

I honestly don't know what to make of them as an example either for or against mage freedom.

Modifié par bleetman, 16 juin 2013 - 09:50 .

[Tenshi]

ParatrooperSean wrote...


With a flick of their wrist any person can stab, bludgeon, behead or strike someone down with an arrow or bolt.

in real life.. do you compare thugs with daggers to atomic bomb?