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[Who is that Masked Man]

Morocco Mole wrote...

bleetman wrote...

Well, apart from still hunting down runaways and running them through with swords, anyway.

Considering Anders escaped seven times and was dragged back unharmed each time I doubt you get killed if you aren't using blood mage or attack first.

Anders only got in trouble when it looked like he murdered the templars out to bring him back

Though that seems to vary depending on who was currently leading the templars.

Wynne's first apprentice, Aneirin, was nearly killed by the templars after he ran away, apparently because they said he was a maleficar. And they didn't even have the decency to tell Wynne whether they had killed him painlessly.

I guess my head-canon is that happened under the last Knight-Commander, and that templar/mage relations under Greagoir were somewhat more cordial.

[LobselVith8]

ParatrooperSean wrote...

So... what's wrong with how the Dalish handle mages? Anyone?

They had their own kingdom as well - the Dales.

[Who is that Masked Man]

Morocco Mole wrote...

Who is that Masked Man wrote...
The Kirkwall Circle was absolutely a hellhole, by Circle standards. Even Anders admitted that the Ferelden Circle was "a lot more fun."

The basic issue for me is, even if Kirkwall is an extreme example, it shows how awful and abusive a poorly-administered Circle can be. It also shows there was inadequate oversight to keep the Circles from becoming like that.

Also, the Rite of Annulment there showed mages how vulnerable they were in any Circle where the inmates were running the asylum, so to speak. It doesn't even matter that much who started it, or who finished it. If one Circle could go all Kirkwall-shaped, then others might, too.

Which lead to the situation in Asunder, with a lot of mages and templars started getting all twitchy and paranoid about one another. The templars started clamping down hard, and the mages started getting riled up... or vice versa, and/or both.

I really think that Divine Justinia V was on the right track with her efforts to address and correct anti-mage sentiment. Unfortunately by that point it was too late, because there was too little trust on both sides, and the extremists had grown too powerful and were already pushing for war.

At this point, the genie is out of the bottle. The toothpaste tube has been squeezed dry. Humpty Dumpty has fallen of the wall, man!

So if there's going to be a Circle any more, it's going to have to be substantially reformed.

Luckily the veil's been torn wide open, the Qunari are (possibly) invading, and demons and dragons are rampaging across the land. If this isn't a prime opportunity for the templars and mages to get together and hug it out, I don't know what is.

Oh, I agree that there needs to be reformation in the Circles. Just not abolishing the concept outright because it is the solution that is fair to both parties.

Reforming the Circle is probably my preferred solution, too, though we may have different ideas as to what those reforms should be.

[Asdrubael Vect]

Morocco Mole wrote...

1)Connor would have nothing if he would not find rare Jowan magic
books-knolegde to do what he did...end especially if someone simply
would watching the baby and Jowan room when Eamon was poisoned

I don't remember this. And I doubt watching Connor would have stopped anything and would have ended with you dead when he became an abomination.

2)orly? poison a well of water...burning barns and houses...this is a
many ways to do this without any magic, but i never see mage(espesially
untrained child without mages knoledges) who can massacre an entire
village with his magic...this is imposiible and was clearly a Chantry
propoganda(this maybe can be posible if the child would be powerfull
dreamer but Feynriel show us that he cant do this stuff when he was
young...and this ability still needs training)

...Connor can massacre an entire village.

3)the point is that Wynn was a gifted mage but she can do something serius even when she was very angry

Gifted mage or not. The second she casted magic as a child she was in serious danger

1)pfff:D what Connor-child who a not so long ago start to show his talent can posiibly do without any magical knoledge(exept only how to hide it), serius magic powers and magic ingridients for rituals?...he is not Tevinter magister and even untrained circle aprentice:D

if deamons can really make 6-12 childrens to be abominations from fade(i see only with ALREADY summoned deamon from fade-"Kitty" and her victim Amalia) i doubt that mages still exist and Templars have their circles with thousands mages:D

2)only what Connor did is summon deamon with rare magic books and ingredients to save life of his father...the other stuff was made only by deamon who summon army of undead....without those boook and ingridients Connnor or any mage child(and many adult mages) would never do such thing even if he/she would want to do

3)what the poit of that? my point was that Wynne was not danger and cant seriusly harm anyone even when she wanted

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 16 juin 2013 - 11:25 .

[Swoopdogg]

 I'll fight with the side of the living. Not necessarily the winning team, or whoever has the biggest chance of winning, but whoever has the biggest chance of defending Thedas. I will also take into account freedom, peace, justice, and morality. That's how I normally choose sides in videogames, anyway. I remained neutral in DA2 because both sides normally were extremist hypocrits and I have no time for people like that. But in the climax I sided with the mages because you can't kill all the mages over Anders' stupid mistake.

So, I'll probably stay in a grey area until one of the sides jumps out as the most good guy-ish, or at least the least "ALL TEH BLOOD MAGICS" / "KILL ALL TEH MAGES"

[DPSSOC]

ParatrooperSean wrote...

So... what's wrong with how the Dalish handle mages? Anyone?

It relies on a high level of interdependence that is nearly impossible to maintain in a numerous, diverse, and decentralized populace.  Dalish mages and non-mages can coexist because they live in an environment where their dependence on one another to survive is greater than any individual ambition.  Improve their quality of life or increase their numbers and they don't need each other as much and individuals become more expendable.

[LobselVith8]

Morocco Mole wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

It relies on a high level of interdependence that is nearly impossible to maintain in a numerous, diverse, and decentralized populace.  Dalish mages and non-mages can coexist because they live in an environment where their dependence on one another to survive is greater than any individual ambition.  Improve their quality of life or increase their numbers and they don't need each other as much and individuals become more expendable.

Exactly. The Dalish solution isn't going to work in a large society.

The Dalish had an entire kingdom where mages lived with non-mages. The Dales.

[LobselVith8]

Morocco Mole wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

The Dalish had an entire kingdom where mages lived with non-mages. The Dales.

Source? Because I remember none of this ever being mentioned. I remember the ancient elves living side by side with magic according to myth (where everyone was supposedly a mage) but not the Dales.

Many of the current Keepers were part of the nobility that governed the Dales - per Lanaya. The elven lore also teaches that Arlathan was a kingdom of elven mages. They don't vilify magic like the Andrastian Chantry does.

[addiction21]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Many of the current Keepers were part of the nobility that governed the Dales - per Lanaya. The elven lore also teaches that Arlathan was a kingdom of elven mages. They don't vilify magic like the Andrastian Chantry does.

No they just vilify all non-elves.

[LobselVith8]

addiction21 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Many of the current Keepers were part of the nobility that governed the Dales - per Lanaya. The elven lore also teaches that Arlathan was a kingdom of elven mages. They don't vilify magic like the Andrastian Chantry does.

No they just vilify all non-elves.

Like Aveline the Knight and Feynriel, humans they adopted into their clan?

[LobselVith8]

Morocco Mole wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Many of the current Keepers were part of the nobility that governed the Dales - per Lanaya. The elven lore also teaches that Arlathan was a kingdom of elven mages. They don't vilify magic like the Andrastian Chantry does.

That doesn't really tell us anything other than it was probably run like Tevinter.

There's no evidence or implication of slavery, there's no evidence or insinuation of non-mages having no authority when elders (non-mages) have a say in the clan, so I don't see how the ridiculous comparison with Tevinter has any merit. Except for your pro-templar need to vilify a kingdom with free mages.

Morocco Mole wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Like Aveline the Knight and Feynriel, humans they adopted into their clan?

Those are the exception, not the rule.

Or the treaty with the Grey Wardens, where they offer aid to the human nations under siege from the Blight, despite being hunted down by the templars.

[LobselVith8]

Morocco Mole wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

There's no evidence or implication of slavery, there's no evidence or insinuation of non-mages having no authority when elders (non-mages) have a say in the clan, so I don't see how the ridiculous comparison with Tevinter has any merit. Except for your pro-templar need to vilify a kingdom with free mages.

And I could say the same about pro-mage need to idealize everything with mages. Truth is, we know little about how the Dales were run except from scraps of lore from biased sources.

Plenty of pro-mage players condemn Tevinter and bad mages. We simply condemn the Chantry controlled Circles and think there needs to be an alternative.

As for the Dales, we know it was a kingdom with free mages and non-mages. That speaks volumes to me.

Morocco Mole wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Or the treaty with the Grey Wardens, where they offer aid to the human nations under siege from the Blight, despite being hunted down by the templars.

Grey Wardens in general get more respect than your average person from everyone. In the Dalish origin you can flat-out murder a human with no repercussions from the leadership.

Your response is that Grey Wardens are cool? Where's the retort for the fact that the Dalish signed a treaty to aid human nations during a Blight?

[Jedi Master of Orion]

The Blights are a threat to Dalish as well. The Grey Wardens have treaties with everyone, it's to the benefit of all to defeat the Blights.

[LobselVith8]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

The Blights are a threat to Dalish as well. The Grey Wardens have treaties with everyone, it's to the benefit of all to defeat the Blights.

Which doesn't address that the Dalish signed a treaty to aid human nations in need, and don't simply attack the darkspawn when they are specifically threatened.

[draken-heart]

I never been Pro-either. But IF one side has the "save the world from being destroyed" option, I will be going that option the whole time.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Because everyone signing Grey Warden treaties together are a best way of stopping the darkspawn. It benefits the dalish more to fight the darkspawn alongside human armies and Grey Warden than fighting them by themselves.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 17 juin 2013 - 04:03 .