1799 réponses à ce sujet

[LobselVith8]

Morocco Mole wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Wouldn't it benefit them to simply leave elsewhere, and let the humans, dwarves, and Alienage elves do all the dirty work while they preserve their number? The treaty would seem to suggest the Dalish aren't the villains the pro-templar fans often paint them as.

1.) You can only escape a Blight for so long. The fifth one was remarkably short while the others have lasted centuries or decades. So unless they want to be wiped out it would be wise to make allies.

The Blight is concentrated in certain areas, so the Dalish could have refused to sign a treaty, especially when their history reads that the Chantry of Andraste invaded their sovereign kingdom with templars because the elves had refused to convert to the Andrastian Chantry and kicked out their missionaries. Despite being hunted down by the templars and losing their homeland, they still signed a treaty to aid the Grey Wardens and the human nations in their time of need.

Morocco Mole wrote...

2.) They tried this when they had the Dales and it left the other kingdoms very unhappy and was one of the things that led to the exalted marches against them.

You mean the Dales didn't help the Orlesian Empire specifically, a nation that was actively conquering it's neighbors to create an empire under the worship of the Maker, and the troubles between Orlais and the Dales prevented Emperor Drakon from trying to conquer the Free Marches. And the Dalish elves address that their worship of the Creators lead to the other Andrastian nations growing cold towards them.

[Hazegurl]

ParatrooperSean wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

It's like he totally just forgot Connor existed. lol!

And yeah daggers and bombs are different. The Law recognizes this which is why they have weapon classifications and different laws on ownership. As well as discussions about whether or not citizens should be allowed to own assault weapons.

If Conor had the option to be taught by someone like Irving or Wynne things would have turned out quite different. But instead, a desperate mother turned to a blood mage on the black market because she didn't want her child ripped away from her.

Guess where Irving and Wynne are. In the Circle. That's why Isolde is very selfish for what she did.

[LobselVith8]

Qyla wrote...

ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

I think if you talk with Lanaya at the Dalish camp in DAO she tells you all keepers are from the elven nobility.  It depends on your dialouge choices for you to get to her to tell you this.

Lanaya, you disappoint me D:

Why does she disappoint you? Lanaya wasn't descended from the nobility of the Dales, and she was brought into Zathrian's clan as a child of two Alienage elves who Zathrian rescued from bandits. Lanaya worked harder than the others to earn her place as the First of the clan. It's not mandatory for the First or the Keeper to be descended from the nobility, as Lanaya has proven.

Qyla wrote...

I highly doubt it could be true, after all this time spent in clan travelling in the forest the "elven nobility blood"  doesn't have any value anymore.

We don't have the information to verify whether or not it could be true, but many Keepers (although not all) of the clans are apparently descended from the nobility that governed the kingdom of the Dales.

Qyla wrote...

And Merril in DA2 says that "It is said that once every elven could use a little magic" (<- or something like that) 

The Dalish believe that all elves could once wield magic and were once immortal in the ancient kingdom of Arlathan, and we know from Witch Hunt and Dragon Age II that Arlathan certainly had elven mages.

[Qyla]

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

[quote]Qyla wrote...

[quote]ElvaliaRavenHart wrote...

I think if you talk with Lanaya at the Dalish camp in DAO she tells you all keepers are from the elven nobility.  It depends on your dialouge choices for you to get to her to tell you this. [/quote]

Lanaya, you disappoint me D: [/quote]

Why does she disappoint you? Lanaya wasn't descended from the nobility of the Dales, and she was brought into Zathrian's clan as a child of two Alienage elves who Zathrian rescued from bandits. Lanaya worked harder than the others to earn her place as the First of the clan. It's not mandatory for the First or the Keeper to be descended from the nobility, as Lanaya has proven.

[/quote]
I was just kidding >.< . And I didn't get your point

[quote]Qyla wrote...

I highly doubt it could be true, after all this time spent in clan travelling in the forest the "elven nobility blood"  doesn't have any value anymore. [/quote]

We don't have the information to verify whether or not it could be true, but many Keepers (although not all) of the clans are apparently descended from the nobility that governed the kingdom of the Dales.[/quote]

 Since elfs don't know nothing about their former culture we can assume that many nobles ended up as city elfs. After centuries of endogamy we can assume that:
a) all elfs have some noble blood
"noble" elfs marry in their own family, so that the noble blood stay pure, but once again...I highly doubt that 

[quote]Qyla wrote...

And Merril in DA2 says that "It is said that once every elven could use a little magic" (<- or something like that) [/quote]

The Dalish believe that all elves could once wield magic and were once immortal in the ancient kingdom of Arlathan, and we know from Witch Hunt and Dragon Age II that Arlathan certainly had elven mages.[/quote]

Yes, I know that but I did not get your point here

[Qyla]

Morocco Mole wrote...

And there were many reasons the Marches were called for. We will just never hear an unbiased source since the elves will always play the victim and the chantry will demonize them.

They lost immortality due to ther races illness, were stripped of ther kingdom because they wanted to keep their own God, putted into slavery or casted out and they...play the victim? They have a whole bunch of reason to not like the Chantry, and I've never heard of an Elf in this game series that hated wholeheartly the Chantry, which we can't say in the oppositve way

[Qyla]

Morocco Mole wrote...

Because we have only the elves words and myth that the humans attacked them unprovoked.

Dalish elfs are a legend among normal people, do you really think that isn't the chantry that tought everybody of the Marches?

[LobselVith8]

Morocco Mole wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

The Blight is concentrated in certain areas, so the Dalish could have refused to sign a treaty, especially when their history reads that the Chantry of Andraste invaded their sovereign kingdom with templars because the elves had refused to convert to the Andrastian Chantry and kicked out their missionaries. Despite being hunted down by the templars and losing their homeland, they still signed a treaty to aid the Grey Wardens and the human nations in their time of need.

The blight doesn't only effect certain areas. The one in Feraldan was remarkably small and focused in one little area. Others have had Darkspawn bursting out of the ground all over Thedas. If the Dalish want any hope of surviving they'd know to throw their lot in with the Wardens.

The Blights are focused in certain areas, which is why the Blights have ravaged certain areas and not others, like the Anderfels being large areas of desolate wasteland. I think that the treaty the Dalish signed with the Grey Wardens counts for something - since they offered aid to an enemy that sacked their homeland and actively pursue them.

Morocco Mole wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...


You mean the Dales didn't help the Orlesian Empire specifically, a nation that was actively conquering it's neighbors to create an empire under the worship of the Maker, and the troubles between Orlais and the Dales prevented Emperor Drakon from trying to conquer the Free Marches. And the Dalish elves address that their worship of the Creators lead to the other Andrastian nations growing cold towards them.

Which would naturally ****** a lot of people off when Darkspawn are tearing down village right next to elven armies and they are refusing to help.

Which sort of refutes your point about them being helpful. I guess.

And there were many reasons the Marches were called for. We will just never hear an unbiased source since the elves will always play the victim and the chantry will demonize them. 

Pointing out that the elves of the Dales didn't help an empire of conquerors that pressed them during the reign of Emperor Drakon doesn't refute my point.

[Permoras]

On the fence.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

The Blight is concentrated in certain areas, so the Dalish could have refused to sign a treaty, especially when their history reads that the Chantry of Andraste invaded their sovereign kingdom with templars because the elves had refused to convert to the Andrastian Chantry and kicked out their missionaries. Despite being hunted down by the templars and losing their homeland, they still signed a treaty to aid the Grey Wardens and the human nations in their time of need.

The blight doesn't only effect certain areas. The one in Feraldan was remarkably small and focused in one little area. Others have had Darkspawn bursting out of the ground all over Thedas. If the Dalish want any hope of surviving they'd know to throw their lot in with the Wardens.

The Blights are focused in certain areas, which is why the Blights have ravaged certain areas and not others, like the Anderfels being large areas of desolate wasteland. I think that the treaty the Dalish signed with the Grey Wardens counts for something - since they offered aid to an enemy that sacked their homeland and actively pursue them.

Some areas are worse hit by Blights than others, but the darkspawn can potentially reach everywhere in the continent during a Blight. During the Second Blight, humans fought the darkspawn everywhere from the Anderfels to Ferelden. The Fourth Blight affected six nations, most of whom were devasated. It is to the Dalish benefit to help the human nations drive them back, there's more than just selflessness to the elves' treaty with the Grey Wardens. The Darkspawn are their common enemy.

Nobody, including the Hawkes had any right to expect they could escape the darkspawn entirely after a year by fleeing to Kirkwall based on past blights.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 17 juin 2013 - 09:21 .

[LobselVith8]

Morocco Mole wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

The Blights are focused in certain areas, which is why the Blights have ravaged certain areas and not others, like the Anderfels being large areas of desolate wasteland. I think that the treaty the Dalish signed with the Grey Wardens counts for something - since they offered aid to an enemy that sacked their homeland and actively pursue them.

Except they didn't sign a treaty with any human nation. They signed it with the Grey Wardens. The Wardens as a whole garner respect from every society on Thedas ranging from the Dalish to the qunari. So it isn't like they signed a treaty with the king of feralden himself.

The Dalish signed a treaty with the Grey Wardens that leads to them to aid human nations against the onslaught of the Blight. It's a fact that tends to get overlooked in the vilification of the Dalish.

Morocco Mole wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Pointing out that the elves of the Dales didn't help an empire of conquerors that pressed them during the reign of Emperor Drakon doesn't refute my point.

They also refused to help the organization that set them free from Tevinter years ago.

You seem to be forgetting that Shartan and the elven slave fought alongside Andraste and her followers against the Imperium - they earned their freedom with the humans they fought side by side with.

[Sunegami]

FrayedThread wrote...

I support freedom for the mages, but under certain conditions.
I believe that there should always be Templars ,that there should always be people able and ready to take down mages should one ever choose to do something harmful.
The Circle should act as more of a school - a boarding school perhaps - where mages can be trained and taught to use their magic sensibly. Perhaps their mentor could be enchanters who're thought to be best fitted to the job by Templars?

If mages are free to come and go where they please with a force able to stop them if they prove a danger then I'm happy.

Basically, this.

[LobselVith8]

Morocco Mole wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

The Dalish signed a treaty with the Grey Wardens that leads to them to aid human nations against the onslaught of the Blight. It's a fact that tends to get overlooked in the vilification of the Dalish.

I'm not vilifying them at all. I am just pointing out that at best, they are an insular group of people that aren't going to bother aiding human nations unless it involves something large like a Blight.

That would be because they are a little focused on staying one step ahead of the templars who hunt them down, and avoid members of the Andrastian Chantry who threaten them to convert.

Morocco Mole wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

You seem to be forgetting that Shartan and the elven slave fought alongside Andraste and her followers against the Imperium - they earned their freedom with the humans they fought side by side with.

And that they refused to help their allies when they were in need during the Second Blight.

The Orlesians weren't allies, they were conquerors. Orlais was invading it's neighbors and forcibly converting everyone to follow Drakon's particular brand of the Cult of the Maker.

[BlueMagitek]

Basically, the Dalish are like the Geth. They're willing to let the rest of the world die, and would later be destroyed in whatever futile effort they put up against the threat.

[IanPolaris]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Basically, the Dalish are like the Geth. They're willing to let the rest of the world die, and would later be destroyed in whatever futile effort they put up against the threat.

If that were true, they never would have made a treaty with the Grey Wardens, nor would they allow Dalish to become Wardens let alone honor them (which they do).

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

Morocco Mole wrote...

That would be because they are a little focused on staying one step ahead of the templars who hunt them down, and avoid members of the Andrastian Chantry who threaten them to convert.

This depends on the clan. Some hang pretty close to human settlements, while others are just bandits that target humans.

The Feraldan one was a neutral one (and still not very friendly to humans)

Actually they don't except the Dalish in Rivain, but the Chantry and Templars were never as strong in Rivain as elsewhere.  Merrill and Merethari both make it very clear that Dalish can not stay close to human settlements for long and that the Chantry/Templars are part of the reason.

-Polaris

[The Hierophant]

Qyla wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

Because we have only the elves words and myth that the humans attacked them unprovoked.

Dalish elfs are a legend among normal people, do you really think that isn't the chantry that tought everybody of the Marches?

How's that even a counter to Mole's point? You have two conflicting stories of an event from two parties who potentially seek to vindicate their actions that led to war. 

Modifié par The Hierophant, 18 juin 2013 - 01:49 .

[BlueMagitek]

IanPolaris wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

Basically, the Dalish are like the Geth. They're willing to let the rest of the world die, and would later be destroyed in whatever futile effort they put up against the threat.

If that were true, they never would have made a treaty with the Grey Wardens, nor would they allow Dalish to become Wardens let alone honor them (which they do).

-Polaris

So you're telling me they did participate in the Second Blight rather than hold back all of their forces and let, primarily, Orlais and Tevinter do all the work?

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Most of the time it takes Grey Warden pressure to get nations to aid others in Blights. Emperor Drakon is the main exception. I think that's why the treaties were so important.

[BlueMagitek]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Most of the time it takes Grey Warden pressure to get nations to aid others in Blights. Emperor Drakon is the main exception. I think that's why the treaties were so important.

I don't know about that, Orlais was more than happy to go in (yes, I know, I know).  I mean, you had treaties for like, 3 groups.  But where was the treaty regarding Nevarra, Tevinter, etc.?

[IanPolaris]

BlueMagitek wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

Basically, the Dalish are like the Geth. They're willing to let the rest of the world die, and would later be destroyed in whatever futile effort they put up against the threat.

If that were true, they never would have made a treaty with the Grey Wardens, nor would they allow Dalish to become Wardens let alone honor them (which they do).

-Polaris

So you're telling me they did participate in the Second Blight rather than hold back all of their forces and let, primarily, Orlais and Tevinter do all the work?

Apparently they did to the same extent that everyone else did (with the notable exception of Drakon).  This is why the treaties were made by the Grey Wardens in the first place.  The Dalish were simply made scapegoats by an unfriendly neighbor that coveted their lands.

-Polaris