Ziggeh wrote...
An amount by which I am slighty amazed. I thought I'd made that clear, by using those words.LobselVith8 wrote...
How many people have proposed no system at all?
Don't be silly, the Templars held the demons off by sheer force of how good, pure and well-hung they are.IanPolaris wrote...
Dave of Canada wrote...
I'm far more surprised that so few Templar managed to hold the door against a tower filled with demons , abominations and risen dead.
Wynne's barrier sealed them off. That may have made a slight difference.
-Polaris
Medhia Nox wrote...
@IanPolaris: When all parties are not on equal footing, you're not going to get everyone to consent.
Do you actually believe mages and non-mages are "the same"? Is that an actual thing you truthfully would argue?
IanPolaris wrote...
I don't remember reading ANYONE propose no system at all. I certainly haven't.
Saying so is a simply strawman, and a weak one at that.
Modifié par In Exile, 23 juin 2013 - 07:21 .
Plaintiff wrote...
Don't be silly, the Templars held the demons off by sheer force of how good, pure and well-hung they are.
Kneel before his sword of righteousness and prepare to taste justice.In Exile wrote...
Plaintiff wrote...
Don't be silly, the Templars held the demons off by sheer force of how good, pure and well-hung they are.
That's why everyone loves Cullen ...
Plaintiff wrote...
Kneel before his sword of righteousness and prepare to taste justice.
Dave of Canada wrote...
I'm far more surprised that so few Templar managed to hold the door against a tower filled with demons , abominations and risen dead.
Yeah. I really don't care about either side of this conflict, unless my character is a mage. In that case, the answer is obvious.SergeantSnookie wrote...
I hope neither is an option.
And if it is, I hope I'm not going to end up helping one of them anyway.
Well, the last time the Divine allowed the First Enchanters to gather to discuss what was to be done regarding the Rite of Tranquility; which is something some mages fiercely oppose; the Grand Enchanter imediatelly attempted to hijack the meeting on grounds that anyone affiliated with the Chantry are monsters to be feared and another mage deliberatelly sabotaged the whole thing by commiting murder and framing someone else for it.IanPolaris wrote...
You start by putting such a system in place with the consent of all parties. You start by actually trying to solve the problem by treating all parties like human beings rather than monsters to be feared.
-Polaris
Modifié par MisterJB, 23 juin 2013 - 08:04 .
Both were necessary.MisterJB wrote...
Well, the last time the Divine allowed the First Enchanters to gather to discuss what was to be done regarding the Rite of Tranquility; which is something some mages fiercely oppose; the Grand Enchanter imediatelly attempted to hijack the meeting on grounds that anyone affiliated with the Chantry are monsters to be feared and another mage deliberatelly sabotaged the whole thing by commiting murder and framing someone else for it.IanPolaris wrote...
You start by putting such a system in place with the consent of all parties. You start by actually trying to solve the problem by treating all parties like human beings rather than monsters to be feared.
-Polaris
But I guess that's excusable because they are mages.
MisterJB wrote...
Well, the last time the Divine allowed the First Enchanters to gather to discuss what was to be done regarding the Rite of Tranquility; which is something some mages fiercely oppose; the Grand Enchanter imediatelly attempted to hijack the meeting on grounds that anyone affiliated with the Chantry are monsters to be feared and another mage deliberatelly sabotaged the whole thing by commiting murder and framing someone else for it.IanPolaris wrote...
You start by putting such a system in place with the consent of all parties. You start by actually trying to solve the problem by treating all parties like human beings rather than monsters to be feared.
-Polaris
But I guess that's excusable because they are mages.
We never had any indication that Tevinter ever stopped slavery, so that would probably just be a lateral move, not a downward one.Or how about how Tevinter reformed? The Divine was persuaded by the mages that all they wanted to do was help their fellow Tevinters and it would be so much better if some of the restrictions were lifted...
Well, see how well that turned out.
MisterJB wrote...
Actually, we do. Page 78 World of Thedas makes mention of how the Imperium freed thousands of slaves after Andraste's death. And, of course, it's not as if slavery is the only way in which mages can opress non-mages.
Under Hessarion; the Archon who killed Andraste and then converted to Andrastianism; non-mages were allowed high-ranking positions within the Imperial Chantry and even allowed seats in the Magisterium; the Senate (page 124).
After the mages were allowed to watch over themselves, they took back power and now non-mages are forbidden from having any participation in either the government or religion. Those who are not slaves are just second class citizens.
So, even if slavery was never completely rooted from Tevinter, it's clear that its non-mages held some hope for a better life for some decades until the mages just took back power.
EmperorSahlertz wrote...
SO far, what most of you have proposed is:LobselVith8 wrote...
Ziggeh wrote...
I'm slightly amazed by the amount of people who see an imperfect system and decide there should be no system at all. As if that would work out swimmingly.
That's because you didn't bother to read the posts by the pro-mage argument. Alternative systems were proposed; we simply argue against the monstrous one that never should have been instituted in the first place.
1: Disband the Templars
2:
3: Happiness!
As you can see, there are some crucial planning errors in there.
The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Well I've never proposed such a thing. Lob hasn't either. He certainly understands the necessity of having some task force to guard against magical threats (the Templars).
Modifié par In Exile, 23 juin 2013 - 09:36 .
They won't. That's why the Circles must above all be independent.In Exile wrote...
The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Well I've never proposed such a thing. Lob hasn't either. He certainly understands the necessity of having some task force to guard against magical threats (the Templars).
Why do people act as if a secular order of abusers is somehow better? Who exactly do you think is going to be drafted into this order? Why do you think the ruling class of Thedas is going to be any kinder or more benevolent than the Chantry?
How dare you believe that people with the power to cause great harm should be accountable to someone other than themselves? You sir, are an opressor!BlueMagitek wrote...
Yes, I can definitely see the various monarchies of Thedas getting behind hosting a foreign power which they have no defense against on their soil.
They may train all the templars they like for national defense, they just won't be able to imprison mages who haven't committed crimes against their citizenry.BlueMagitek wrote...
Yes, I can definitely see the various monarchies of Thedas getting behind hosting a foreign power which they have no defense against on their soil.
But you can't put people who might be compromised in charge of managing who might be compromised. By definition you need a seperate body to fulfill the role, which immediately sets up opposite (because people are people) and you're back where you started.Xilizhra wrote...
They won't. That's why the Circles must above all be independent.
The idea is that I have sentinels who can handle that kind of thing, but they only go into action if someone truly is compromised, and don't have managerial power.Ziggeh wrote...
But you can't put people who might be compromised in charge of managing who might be compromised. By definition you need a seperate body to fulfill the role, which immediately sets up opposite (because people are people) and you're back where you started.Xilizhra wrote...
They won't. That's why the Circles must above all be independent.
Xilizhra wrote...
They won't. That's why the Circles must above all be independent.
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