1799 réponses à ce sujet

[vpacheco1984]

You mean she is a loyalist which means she is a self-hating coward who is DA's Stephen (From Django Unchanged) who give her family the finger by turning herself in after everything they did to keep her safe. After Hawke risked his or her life to get enough money to protect her from the circle she spit his or her face. Yeah the most intelligent magic users. This is why I always play as a mage or if I'm not a mage I take her into the deep roads without taking Anders.

She most like killed all the magelings for the tempars smiling the whole time asking if she was doing good while she waited for a pat on her head for being a good little traitor.

Modifié par vpacheco1984, 25 juin 2013 - 11:03 .

[Tenshi]

Morocco Mole wrote...

Sable Rhapsody wrote...
That's pretty much all I got.  On the flip side, the list of sane templars is equally short, and mostly composed of bit part characters like the ones listed above.

This is also true. The only major ones would be Carver (which isn't a guarantee) and Cullen who is nearly a bit character anyway.

and evangeline, and gregor.. and more.. but i wont even try.. one does not simply convince templar hater.

[LobselVith8]

Morocco Mole wrote...

The only two decent mages I can remember in DA2 are Bethany and one other guy whose name I can't remember because he was such a minor character.

There were mages who were decent person in the storyline. There was Alain; he was raped by the templars and worked with Ser Thrask to depose Meredith from her dictatorship. Feynriel was another example; he works hard to control his powers as a Dreamer, and he protects a woman from being raped by bandits through his magical abilities as a Dreamer.

Morocco Mole wrote...

The rest are either deranged blood mages, are turn into deranged blood mages. Or just really stupid in Merrill's case.

The developers already admitted that was an issue - we encounter many stupid and insane mages in the narrative. Also, Merrill wasn't stupid.

[Swoopdogg]

 Both mages and templars are equally wrong.

[Sable Rhapsody]

xxx2emo4Uxxx wrote...
and evangeline, and gregor.. and more.. but i wont even try.. one does not simply convince templar hater.

We were discussing DA2's cast of templars.  Also, I don't hate the templars or the mages.  I can see and empathize with both sides; I just don't like the frustrating and simplistic portrayal of almost every templar and mage in DA2 as ax-crazy.  

[LobselVith8]

Morocco Mole wrote...

Merrill wasn't stupid.

Merrill is very stupid.

That statement is contradicted by the storyline. Merrill extrapolated information from the shard and researched lore on the Eluvian. She demonstrates an astute knowledge of magic, and proficiently uses blood magic for several years. She can discern whether the templar recruit Keran is possessed, and she can distinquish the nature of the Profane Abomination. I'm not seeing how Merrill is stupid. Her culture shock about a foreign society certainly doesn't make her stupid.

[vpacheco1984]

No I'm spot on about Bethany. She is a traitor to her own kind who like I said most likely killed the magelings for the templars oh I forgot she was probably reciting the Chant of Light while she was doing it.

[Mykel54]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

It is really frustrating that Bethany (a character you can only get if you don't pick mage) is the only intelligent magic user in the entirety of Dragon Age 2.

Hmm.  Trying to think of others.  Alain isn't so bad (from the Starkhaven sidequest).  He mostly got caught up in a mess that wasn't really his fault.  Ella, from the Dissent quest, seems like a nice girl.  Emile du Launcet isn't what I'd call intelligent, but he's mostly harmless.  Malcolm's also represented positively in Legacy.

That's pretty much all I got.  On the flip side, the list of sane templars is equally short, and mostly composed of bit part characters like the ones listed above.

Alain was no innocent, he is a lot like Orsino: willing to accept blood magic in order to achieve the "greater good". In the game it is suggested that Grace is the one who taught him, but he isn´t as strong willed as her so he doubts himself a lot. Also, the stunt he tried to pull off to save his hide after conspiring with the other mages and kidnapping hawke´s sibling (plus not helping hawke in the fight at all, so playing both sides) was just sad. Hawke gave him a chance to redeem himself after being found with bloodmages, and he fails to take it.

There are plenty of mages in the game who try to use their powers ethically, even if they failt at it. Merril tries to use blood magic ethicaly, Anders is very ethical on his use of magic but falls prey due to being possessed, Malcolm is an ethical mage who is forced to use blood magic by the wardens. A few of them are really capable like circle Bethany, who manages to avoid blood magic in a corrupt circle where even the first enchanter is secretly one, or mage Hawke who can also be an ethical apostate in a similar way than Anders. Others like Orsino or Grace,  have no qualms about using dangerous magic if that is necessary for what they consider the greater good. Most wardens mages fall here too, like Janeka or Avernus.

[LobselVith8]

Morocco Mole wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

That statement is contradicted by the storyline. Merrill extrapolated information from the shard and researched lore on the Eluvian. She demonstrates an astute knowledge of magic, and proficiently uses blood magic for several years. She can discern whether the templar recruit Keran is possessed, and she can distinquish the nature of the Profane Abomination. I'm not seeing how Merrill is stupid. Her culture shock about a foreign society certainly doesn't make her stupid.

Then maybe Bioware should have shown that more instead of trying to write a ditzy moe that can't even tell what sarcasm is.

We saw that when Anders verbally attacked Merrill's religious views, and tried to impose his religious Andrastian views when she didn't share his cultural view of the Fade, or the denizens of the Fade being Spirits and Demons, aka the First Children of the Maker and those Spirits who turned his back on Him to embody different "sins" of the human race.

Also, Merrill uses sarcasm all the time. Bring her to Ilen once Merrill has moved into the Alienage in Act I, and you see that Merrill uses sarcasm as well; the difference is her dry humor isn't recognized sometimes. We even see an exchange where this happens between Anders and Merrill:

Anders: Do the Dalish ever have fancy parties? I always imagined they celebrated most big occasions by eating mushrooms and acorns. And maybe dancing naked around a campfire.

Merrill: You know, I was wondering when the naked dancing was going to start. And the human sacrifice. I mean, you just can't throw a decent party without kidnapping a human child and offering her entrails to the sky gods.

Anders: Really?

Merrill: No.

Morocco Mole wrote...
Then gets everyone killed anyway because she doesn't know what she's messing with.

That wasn't Merrill's fault. Marethari released Audacity from it's ancient prison through her own free will, and then tried to kill Merrill as an abomination. Then the Sabrae clan will become enraged, with Merrill protecting herself against grown men and women who attempt to commit cold-blooded murder unless the Champion of Kirkwall coddles them.

Morocco Mole wrote...

e: this is also the same person that gets pissy when you refuse to talk to malicious demons

Merrill advocates getting information from demons at opportune times, which doesn't necessitate making any deal with them; for example, getting information about the Deep Roads from the Profane Abomination, and then attacking the abomination once it provides you with a sufficient amount of information, is something Merrill has no problem with, and will even make a first strike against the Profane Abomination with your encouragement.

Modifié par LobselVith8, 25 juin 2013 - 11:50 .

[DPSSOC]

vpacheco1984 wrote...

No I'm spot on about Bethany. She is a traitor to her own kind who like I said most likely killed the magelings for the templars oh I forgot she was probably reciting the Chant of Light while she was doing it.

Except she fights the Templars, hell she'll fight you if you make her.

[FenrirBlackDragon]

I think I'm middle of the road but slightly pro-mage. But in the end, I hope there is an option to side with neither or both somehow. Or perhaps another faction altogether. I think both sides have their points, but neither is willing to listen to each other so taking only one side seems like it would only make things worse.

[BlueMagitek]

Oh goody, a Merrill discussion.

She's intelligent, but made WIS her dump stat, if you know what I mean.

As for Bethany, she is literally the sanest, kindest mage in DA:2. I'm only sorry I can't have both her and Carver (or at least have more time with both).

[CROAT_56]

War is never the answer both groups should and could peacefully co exsist the problem lies in the men and woman in power on both sides that sew the seeds of anger, hatred, and fear to perpetuate the war it is our job to discover these people on all sides and terminate them only then can we have peace.

[Rikku Moon]

vpacheco1984 wrote...

You mean she is a loyalist which means she is a self-hating coward who is DA's Stephen (From Django Unchanged) who give her family the finger by turning herself in after everything they did to keep her safe. After Hawke risked his or her life to get enough money to protect her from the circle she spit his or her face. Yeah the most intelligent magic users. This is why I always play as a mage or if I'm not a mage I take her into the deep roads without taking Anders.

She most like killed all the magelings for the tempars smiling the whole time asking if she was doing good while she waited for a pat on hfer head for being a good little traitor.

i dont think bethanny is a traitor to mages. we dont know what happened in the weeks or months it took hawkes expedition team to find its way out of the deep roads again, and return home to find templars in our uncles home getting ready to take bethanny away. for all we know about what happened while hawke was away, i doubt she willingly turned herself him. she must have been caught using magic and been  reported as a mage to the templars. and since we were busy being lost in the deep roads, there was no one to protect mom and the uncle from the templars wrath if she had choosen to fight her imprisonment rather than go quietly. if this was something that was really happening and it was a choice between your freedom and the lives of your loved ones continued safety from cold hearted monsters like the templars, what other choice would bethanny have since she was on her own with no big brother or sister hawke or brother carver to help her. if we had gotten home earlier we might have been able to save her from being discovered, and she probably still went with them to protect her family even though we were back now and could have taken down those templars easy, but then we would have to go on the run again because more templars would arrive to find out what happened to the missing ones and then the family definitely would have been in trouble, especially wit meridith and her antiwmage campaign going on.

[Sable Rhapsody]

BlueMagitek wrote...
Oh goody, a Merrill discussion.

She's intelligent, but made WIS her dump stat, if you know what I mean.

This is probably the best description of Merrill I've heard in a while.  

[Yakko77]

I sided with the mages in DA2 for a couple reasons.  Either a) I was a mage or I was protecting the sister who is a mage.  Also, mages turn to blood magic on an individual basis, it's not Circle of Magi doctrine to become a blood mage.  In fact it's generally frowned upon IIRC.

The Templars (with a couple individual exceptions) were willing and able to commit an act of genocide in the name of religion and wipe out all mages due to the acts of those acting individually.  I have no time for such religeous extremism in real life or in my games.  None.  I can't stand such acts.

That said, generally speaking I wish there was what I refer to as the Eric Cartman option, "Screw you guys, I'm going home." where Hawke and Co. board a ship and head back to Denerim.  OR, at the very least offer the option to side with the town guard and protect the people of Kirkwall against BOTH factions.  If DA:I is going to shoehorn us into chosing one side or the other I hope it isn't as forced as Anders going all Death Star beam on the Chantry out of nowhere...

[Irku]

I'm undecided. I have been pro-mage since origins but in DAI it looks like things are going down hill fast. I get the felling that the mage vs templar is only a small portion of the game (act 1) after that your going to make alliances and fight other factions, or maybe the veil is torn beyond repair and you have to look for a way to fix it... IDK. Demons & Abominations are going to be my main concern... but they come from mages...so Templar?

[vpacheco1984]

Rikku Moon wrote...

vpacheco1984 wrote...

You mean she is a loyalist which means she is a self-hating coward who is DA's Stephen (From Django Unchanged) who give her family the finger by turning herself in after everything they did to keep her safe. After Hawke risked his or her life to get enough money to protect her from the circle she spit his or her face. Yeah the most intelligent magic users. This is why I always play as a mage or if I'm not a mage I take her into the deep roads without taking Anders.

She most like killed all the magelings for the tempars smiling the whole time asking if she was doing good while she waited for a pat on hfer head for being a good little traitor.

i dont think bethanny is a traitor to mages. we dont know what happened in the weeks or months it took hawkes expedition team to find its way out of the deep roads again, and return home to find templars in our uncles home getting ready to take bethanny away. for all we know about what happened while hawke was away, i doubt she willingly turned herself him. she must have been caught using magic and been  reported as a mage to the templars. and since we were busy being lost in the deep roads, there was no one to protect mom and the uncle from the templars wrath if she had choosen to fight her imprisonment rather than go quietly. if this was something that was really happening and it was a choice between your freedom and the lives of your loved ones continued safety from cold hearted monsters like the templars, what other choice would bethanny have since she was on her own with no big brother or sister hawke or brother carver to help her. if we had gotten home earlier we might have been able to save her from being discovered, and she probably still went with them to protect her family even though we were back now and could have taken down those templars easy, but then we would have to go on the run again because more templars would arrive to find out what happened to the missing ones and then the family definitely would have been in trouble, especially wit meridith and her antiwmage campaign going on.

In the Legacy DLC if you bring her along and she is in the cirlce and you have  Anders with you learn that Bethay turned herself in.

[TEWR]

Yeah, I'm talking about the first courier you meet. He says the Collective uphold the Chantry's laws amongst themselves which is, of course, bullsh*t and he is lying to the Warden's face.

I still maintain that with the Redcliffe Templars on their side the Collective would pass along a few requests to Harrith or whatever his name is for some of the more.... dangerous aspects that would necessitate Templar involvement. Things the Warden isn't able to look through.

And if they don't happen to do that, then they should. But I maintain that they do, because that is the sensible thing to do.

[TEWR]

I facepalm anytime someone is actually willing to ignore what DAII presents on Merrill in favor of calling her a "stupid ditz/****** ****" and the like.

And my mouth begins to snarl a bit. Odd that. I think all the erroneous mudslinging has begun to get on my nerves to such degree that I can't stand it anymore.

Like what happens when Loghain is trash-talked or Anora is too.

[vpacheco1984]

DPSSOC wrote...

vpacheco1984 wrote...

No I'm spot on about Bethany. She is a traitor to her own kind who like I said most likely killed the magelings for the templars oh I forgot she was probably reciting the Chant of Light while she was doing it.

Except she fights the Templars, hell she'll fight you if you make her.

No she doesn't she runs off crying then when you find her next to Orison she stands around with her thumb up her ass. Then after Orsion is dead she blames you and the other for what happened to Orsion, which is true, then after you kill Orsion she give up and tells you to kill her. Then you can save her or let Mereidth run her through. So she never once fights you or the templars she just runs off and given the fact she is a self-hating coward she most likely killed the magelings

[The Hierophant]

vpacheco1984 wrote...

given the fact she is a self-hating coward she most likely killed the magelings

That's a pretty big assumption.