1799 réponses à ce sujet

[Hellion Rex]

Ozida wrote...

I stand for mages. I had my doubts before, but in DA2 they showed that people with no magic talent could be taken by demons too (it was that Missing Templar quest or something like that). And my first DA:O character was a free-will mage, so it’s more canonical, I guess, for me.

This! I had completely forgotten about this. Wasn't it Keran or something?

[Ozida]

eluvianix wrote...

Ozida wrote...

I stand for mages. I had my doubts before, but in DA2 they showed that people with no magic talent could be taken by demons too (it was that Missing Templar quest or something like that). And my first DA:O character was a free-will mage, so it’s more canonical, I guess, for me.

This! I had completely forgotten about this. Wasn't it Keran or something?

Yes, I believe, you are right, it was Keran and also Wilmod confronted by Cullen.

[d-boy15]

Ozida wrote...

I stand for mages. I had my doubts before, but in DA2 they showed that people with no magic talent could be taken by demons too (it was that Missing Templar quest or something like that). And my first DA:O character was a free-will mage, so it’s more canonical, I guess, for me.

Errr... the one who behind all templar turned to demon is a mage.

Just stating the fact, the rest is up to you.

[LobselVith8]

d-boy15 wrote...

Errr... the one who behind all templar turned to demon is a mage.

Just stating the fact, the rest is up to you. 

True, but we have known since Origins that spirits and demons (if you take the Chantry view of the denizens of the Fade, as opposed to the Dalish perspective) can inhabit non-mages, as we see animals, trees, and ordinary people possessed during the narrative.

[vpacheco1984]

d-boy15 wrote...

Ozida wrote...

I stand for mages. I had my doubts before, but in DA2 they showed that people with no magic talent could be taken by demons too (it was that Missing Templar quest or something like that). And my first DA:O character was a free-will mage, so it’s more canonical, I guess, for me.

Errr... the one who behind all templar turned to demon is a mage.

Just stating the fact, the rest is up to you.

This is vary true but I think the point is that not only mages can be possessed. In DAO there was cat that was possessed as well as a tree, the Rhyming tree was possessed by either a demon or spirit along with all of those other trees that attackd you in DAO and DAA. I don't really know if this is what Ozida meant or not. 

[Lord Aeducan]

 Personally I would side with the templars just due to the fact I hate demons and I believe templars are the only ones who can actually stop their invasion of the mortal realm. On the other hand the mages, well lets take a long look at The Tevinter Imperium. 

[Hellion Rex]

Lord Aeducan wrote...

 Personally I would side with the templars just due to the fact I hate demons and I believe templars are the only ones who can actually stop their invasion of the mortal realm. On the other hand the mages, well lets take a long look at The Tevinter Imperium. 

Yes, we know that the Tevinter Imperium is everyone's favorite go-to magical example. And this so-called "invasion" happened due to the Templar Order's (not all of them, mind you) inability to use their power wisely. Some of the highest level Templars let bigotry and zealotry control the Order.

[LobselVith8]

Lord Aeducan wrote...

Personally I would side with the templars just due to the fact I hate demons and I believe templars are the only ones who can actually stop their invasion of the mortal realm.

I think that mages could be very proficient in dealing with an invading army, as we know from their role in the New Exalted Marches and the Blights that threatened Thedas. Ariane heavily implied their involvement in the defeat of the Dales.

Lord Aeducan wrote...

On the other hand the mages, well lets take a long look at The Tevinter Imperium. 

I'd prefer to take a look at the Avvar, the Chasind, the seers in the kingdom of Rivain, and the kingdom of the Dales, which was allegedly invaded by templars because the elves refused to convert, leading to the Dalish clans that are nomadic across Thedas because templars actively hunt them down.

[vpacheco1984]

Lord Aeducan wrote...

 Personally I would side with the templars just due to the fact I hate demons and I believe templars are the only ones who can actually stop their invasion of the mortal realm. On the other hand the mages, well lets take a long look at The Tevinter Imperium. 

Great reason use another culture to justify genocide. Maybe we should kill all Germens for what the ****'s did. Great logic. Also not all mages want another Tevinter Imperium actually most mages don't. Oh yeah templars are not the only ones who could stop a demon invasion mages could to, if you remember Wynne and a few mages held off a tower full of demons as well as killed a bunch of them without the aid of templars, you know the ones who were hiding behind the giant doors with their thumbs up their asses.

[MisterJB]

LobselVith8 wrote...
I'd prefer to take a look at the Chasind, the seers in the kingdom of Rivain, and the kingdom of the Dales.

You mean the social groups where mages were granted freedom and this lead to them being the higher strata of society and to the domination of non-mages?

[DPSSOC]

vpacheco1984 wrote...

Leliana: Hates mages and wanted the Exlated March on Kirkwall to kill the mages and hated the fact they were allowed to have fraternities.

Cassandra: She hates mages and wants them all dead or in chains.

Talis: She like all Qunari see mages as animals who need to be collard with their eyes and mouths stitched shut.

Bethany: The mage who hates herself and other mages who believes that it's okay for the mages to be enslaved tortured, raped and beaten on a daily basis.

Evangeline: She is just as bad as Leliana, Cassandra and Talis and would be more then happy to kill all the mages and drop them in mass unmarked graves.

I'm afraid I have to disagree with you.  Leliana doesn't endorse the Exalted March in anyway she's just stating what the reality is.  If Mages take control of Kirkwall the Divine is going to have to bring the hammer down, that's where the situation is.

Can't say much about Tallis but I never got a hate vibe from the Qunari.  They don't do what they do to Mages out of hatred for them but fear of what they can do.  In fact in the quest with the Sarebas(sp?) in DA2 it seems clear that the Arvaraad (sp?) has an enormous amount of respect for him, going so far as to remove his shackles as a last request so he can thank Hawke..

Bethany doesn't hate herself, or other mages for that matter.  Bethany hates what her being a Mage has forced on her family.  With Malcolm dead she's the reason they need to run, she's the reason they need to hide, and she's the reason Hawke has to brave the Deep Roads.  She turns herself in because she sees herself as a burden on her family and she doesn't want that anymore.  She's happy in the Circle because she doesn't have to hide anymore, because she has people she can relate to who understand what she went/is going through.

Can't speak at all for Cassandra or Evangeline.

[vpacheco1984]

DPSSOC wrote...

vpacheco1984 wrote...

Leliana: Hates mages and wanted the Exlated March on Kirkwall to kill the mages and hated the fact they were allowed to have fraternities.

Cassandra: She hates mages and wants them all dead or in chains.

Talis: She like all Qunari see mages as animals who need to be collard with their eyes and mouths stitched shut.

Bethany: The mage who hates herself and other mages who believes that it's okay for the mages to be enslaved tortured, raped and beaten on a daily basis.

Evangeline: She is just as bad as Leliana, Cassandra and Talis and would be more then happy to kill all the mages and drop them in mass unmarked graves.

I'm afraid I have to disagree with you.  Leliana doesn't endorse the Exalted March in anyway she's just stating what the reality is.  If Mages take control of Kirkwall the Divine is going to have to bring the hammer down, that's where the situation is.

Can't say much about Tallis but I never got a hate vibe from the Qunari.  They don't do what they do to Mages out of hatred for them but fear of what they can do.  In fact in the quest with the Sarebas(sp?) in DA2 it seems clear that the Arvaraad (sp?) has an enormous amount of respect for him, going so far as to remove his shackles as a last request so he can thank Hawke..

Bethany doesn't hate herself, or other mages for that matter.  Bethany hates what her being a Mage has forced on her family.  With Malcolm dead she's the reason they need to run, she's the reason they need to hide, and she's the reason Hawke has to brave the Deep Roads.  She turns herself in because she sees herself as a burden on her family and she doesn't want that anymore.  She's happy in the Circle because she doesn't have to hide anymore, because she has people she can relate to who understand what she went/is going through.

Can't speak at all for Cassandra or Evangeline.

Have you ever had to have stitches without pain killers? It hurts alot, as in unless you can take alot of pain someone has to hold you down. Now imagen someone doing that to your mouth and eye lids how painful that must be. Never to being able to open your mouth more then a few millimeters meaning you would have to live on liquid diet unable to open your mouth wide enought to put any kind of soild food in it. Never being able to see because you eyes are sown shut never to see flowers or sunrises or sunsets the ocean or enjoy a piece of art. Oh yes how about the fact that they will even cut out the mages tongues. You do not do that to someone you respect you do that to someone you hate. As for removing his shackles at the end of the quest that isn't respect, he wanted to kill Hawke and being tainted by the mage when he talk to him/her was the perfect excuse to do it. They even say that you are tainted for sharing the womb with a mage and will kill you for that. That is not fear and respect that is fear and hate.

[Hellion Rex]

MisterJB wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
I'd prefer to take a look at the Chasind, the seers in the kingdom of Rivain, and the kingdom of the Dales.

You mean the social groups where mages were granted freedom and this lead to them being the higher strata of society and to the domination of non-mages?

Explain to me how they "dominated." I would believe that co-existed peacefully is a better way to phrase it.

[LobselVith8]

MisterJB wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

I'd prefer to take a look at the Chasind, the seers in the kingdom of Rivain, and the kingdom of the Dales.

You mean the social groups where mages were granted freedom and this lead to them being the higher strata of society and to the domination of non-mages? 

The Avvar and the Chasind are lead by Shamans, while the Dalish are lead by Keepers. Neither society emulates Tevinter. In the example of the Dalish clans, we have been told that non-mages can become Keepers (as this was mentioned by Felicia Day), and the elders are also in positions of authority of the clan, to the point where they could refuse a marriage between a Keeper and one of their own. As for the seers in Rivaini, they aren't leaders.

Again, this idea that free mages automatically lead to another Tevinter is disproven by the societies where mages are free, and none of them attempt to emulate the Imperium.

[Hellion Rex]

LobselVith8 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

I'd prefer to take a look at the Chasind, the seers in the kingdom of Rivain, and the kingdom of the Dales.

You mean the social groups where mages were granted freedom and this lead to them being the higher strata of society and to the domination of non-mages? 

The Avvar and the Chasind are lead by Shamans, while the Dalish are lead by Keepers. Neither society emulates Tevinter. In the example of the Dalish clans, we have been told that non-mages can become Keepers (as this was mentioned by Felicia Day), and the elders are also in positions of authority of the clan, to the point where they could refuse a marriage between a Keeper and one of their own. As for the seers in Rivaini, they aren't leaders.

Again, this idea that free mages automatically lead to another Tevinter is disproven by the societies where mages are free, and none of them attempt to emulate the Imperium.

Huh? I thought it was required for them to be mages. I'm not challenging your claim, but I had never heard that claim before. Interesting...

[The Hierophant]

vpacheco1984 wrote...

Wynne and a few mages held off a tower full of demons as well as killed a bunch of them without the aid of templars, you know the ones who were hiding behind the giant doors with their thumbs up their asses.

Wynne was injured, and saved by the spirit who possessed her before she set up that barrier. Even though Wynne was forced to hide behind a barrier her combat prowess is not standard among mages.

[The Hierophant]

Plus is Felicia Day's statement about the Keepers even supported by any of the writers as i see no point in referencing it if it's not?

[vpacheco1984]

The Hierophant wrote...

vpacheco1984 wrote...

Wynne and a few mages held off a tower full of demons as well as killed a bunch of them without the aid of templars, you know the ones who were hiding behind the giant doors with their thumbs up their asses.

Wynne was injured, and saved by the spirit who possessed her before she set up that barrier. Even though Wynne was forced to hide behind a barrier her combat prowess is not standard among mages.

The point I was trying to make is that templars aren't the only ones who can fight demons. 

[garrusfan1]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

andar91 wrote...

MR_PN wrote...

I support mage freedom

Bioware should start selling bumper stickers that say that. A bunch of people wouldn't get it, but it would be hilarious. 

I would certainly buy it.

I hate to say it but I would to

[garrusfan1]

eluvianix wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
I'd prefer to take a look at the Chasind, the seers in the kingdom of Rivain, and the kingdom of the Dales.

You mean the social groups where mages were granted freedom and this lead to them being the higher strata of society and to the domination of non-mages?

Explain to me how they "dominated." I would believe that co-existed peacefully is a better way to phrase it.

you didn't know if a mage is in power he is automatically evil and he consorts with demons and will use blood magic. at least that is what a lot of people think for some reason. to be fair though the seers do allow themselves to be possessed according to codex

[Hellion Rex]

garrusfan1 wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
I'd prefer to take a look at the Chasind, the seers in the kingdom of Rivain, and the kingdom of the Dales.

You mean the social groups where mages were granted freedom and this lead to them being the higher strata of society and to the domination of non-mages?

Explain to me how they "dominated." I would believe that co-existed peacefully is a better way to phrase it.

you didn't know if a mage is in power he is automatically evil and he consorts with demons and will use blood magic. at least that is what a lot of people think for some reason. to be fair though the seers do allow themselves to be possessed according to codex

i was praying for the one pro-Templar who could actually reasonably defend his position instead of writing all mages off as purely dominating blood magic users, simply for being alive. my dreams are crushed again.

[TheKomandorShepard]

vpacheco1984 wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

vpacheco1984 wrote...

Wynne and a few mages held off a tower full of demons as well as killed a bunch of them without the aid of templars, you know the ones who were hiding behind the giant doors with their thumbs up their asses.

Wynne was injured, and saved by the spirit who possessed her before she set up that barrier. Even though Wynne was forced to hide behind a barrier her combat prowess is not standard among mages.

The point I was trying to make is that templars aren't the only ones who can fight demons. 

Templars and mages aren't needed they should clone hawke and the warden to create army then they could kill all demons. With mages problem is that pride demons can become immune to magic not that templars are any better judging by dawn of the seeker or ferelden cricle tower of course if someone take dawn of the seeker seriously.But i think well trained mage with spirit spells are better to fight demons or other mages than templars.      

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 29 juin 2013 - 05:20 .

[garrusfan1]

vpacheco1984 wrote...

Leliana: Hates mages and wanted the Exlated March on Kirkwall to kill the mages and hated the fact they were allowed to have fraternities.

Cassandra: She hates mages and wants them all dead or in chains.

Talis: She like all Qunari see mages as animals who need to be collard with their eyes and mouths stitched shut.

Bethany: The mage who hates herself and other mages who believes that it's okay for the mages to be enslaved tortured, raped and beaten on a daily basis.

Evangeline: She is just as bad as Leliana, Cassandra and Talis and would be more then happy to kill all the mages and drop them in mass unmarked graves.

with the exception of tallis and Evangeline I know you are wrong
Leliana took mages out of prison which made the Templars rebel. leliana also didn't hate morrigan for being a mage but for other reasons and she loved wynne. Cassandra didn't seem to be so bad from what I saw she seemed to want  peace. and how the f*** do you get that for Bethany she hated the fact her family had to sacrifice so much and she hated the Templars and thought the circle was horrible. she doesn't believe mages should be kept locked up . if your talking about how she didn't flee the circle or complain about it in the dlcs when you took her along it is more of she was tired of running and worrying about Templars coming through the doors at any time. Bethany even said to fenris there shouldn't be Templars in one of their talks while your walking places. Bethany even said (before the final battle and if she was in the circle) she needs to help her fellow mages. just because she isn't hardcore like anders doesn't mean she hates mages. and I will repeat the fact she only hated her magic because her family had to sacrifice so much to keep her from the circle

[garrusfan1]

eluvianix wrote...

garrusfan1 wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
I'd prefer to take a look at the Chasind, the seers in the kingdom of Rivain, and the kingdom of the Dales.

You mean the social groups where mages were granted freedom and this lead to them being the higher strata of society and to the domination of non-mages?

Explain to me how they "dominated." I would believe that co-existed peacefully is a better way to phrase it.

you didn't know if a mage is in power he is automatically evil and he consorts with demons and will use blood magic. at least that is what a lot of people think for some reason. to be fair though the seers do allow themselves to be possessed according to codex

i was praying for the one pro-Templar who could actually reasonably defend his position instead of writing all mages off as purely dominating blood magic users, simply for being alive. my dreams are crushed again.

I agree. I am pro mage but I am not blind yes some mages are bad but most aren't and they should get training but they should be free and not have their children ripped from their arms.

[The Hierophant]

vpacheco1984 wrote...

The point I was trying to make is that templars aren't the only ones who can fight demons.

I understand that as the mages would've been incapable of passing the Harrowing, while the old Inquisition would have failed in restoring order.

But like the rest of the Warden's/Hawke's companions the issue with comparing Wynne's combat feats to the majority of the non plot relevant characters is that it's like comparing a Navy Seal to local law enforcement. The companions on average are presented as the best combatants in their field. No matter how you slice it Wynne's capabilities are not standard (abomination).