1799 réponses à ce sujet

[LobselVith8]

[quote]MisterJB wrote...

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

Felicia Day did confer with the writers about the lore for Dragon Age.[/quote]

Still no source. And I would very much like to know Miss Day's source because everything about elven culture points in the opposite direction. [/quote]

Ethereal Writer and Ian have also brought up what Felicia Day said. And we know that she spoke with the writers about the lore for Dragon Age. We also know that there are variances among the clans that live across Thedas as well.

[quote]MisterJB wrote...

The simple fact that they hold that all elves were mages once and that they wish to return to this, logically, means that they see mage elves as closer to that ideal than non-mages. [/quote]

Being a mage doesn't automatically make a person the First or the Keeper; Lanaya had to contend with several other canidates to earn the right to become Zathrian's First. We also have elves like Aneirin the Healer who had joined the clan, but never took a position of authority. Also, you continue to neglect the importance of the elders, who have positions of authority despite being non-mages.

Furthermore, the Dalish believe that their ancestors were immortal elves who could spend decades in dialogue with one another. We also know that the Dalish who live away from humans seem to live longer, depending on how many generations the respective elves have lived away from humans.

[quote]MisterJB wrote...

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

The origin of the Dalish Warden demonstrates that the elders had the authority to refuse a Keeper - i.e. non- mages saying 'no' to a mage.[/quote]

No, they were saying no to the she-elf of their own clan. If anyone said anything to the Dalish Warden's father, was the other Keeper. [/quote]

Ashalle said the protagonist's mother was a hunter, and her father was the Keeper before Marethari, and she only mentions the elders forbidding the union, not the clan's other Keeper. It was also a decision by the clan not to talk about the heritage of the Dalish protagonist, which means it was a collective decision, rather than a singular one.

[quote]MisterJB wrote...

If that Keeper had said "yes", the elders could say whatever they wish but they could do nothing about it because the will of the Keeper is supreme as evidence by Marethari, for instance. [/quote]

Except Ashalle only mentions the elders, not the clan's other Keeper, so there's absolutely nothing to support your theory.

[quote]MisterJB wrote...

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

The Rivain codex simply mentioned that they were revered, not leaders. And I thought the seers were in the Circle of Rivain, per the Annulment of Rivain entry?[/quote]

And the World of Thedas says they are leaders and it was written with the specific purpose of providing information about Thedosian lore. [/quote]

If the developers added to the lore, that's fine (although I wish they could start being consistent with it, since we have two examples of contradicting Rivaini lore), but it was never once mentioned in the codex entries for Origins or Dragon Age II; the former simply mentioned they were respected by the people, while the latter had a new entry on the Bioware Blog (written as a codex) where they are used as a reference in the argument for mages living outside templar control in an entry about the validity of the Chantry controlled Circles.

There seems to be no indication that a mage or a seer governs the kingdom of Rivain as ruler, in the way that Alistair or Anora can lead Ferelden as the new King or Queen.

[quote]MisterJB wrote...

Magisters belong to a Circle, that doesn't stop them from having political power. [/quote]

Given that the Circle of Rivain is, in theory, under the juristiction of the Andrastian Chantry, rather than the Imperial Chantry (where mages can be enslaved), I'm not sure how that applies.

[quote]MisterJB wrote...

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

The problem is they aren't Tevinter. You seem to forget there isn't a democracy in Thedas; every society or nation has rulers. Why don't you take issue with the 'nobility' ruling over everyone else? The Dalish also demonstrate that the Keepers aren't despots or tyrants, as Velanna and Merrill are free to leave their clan to pursue their own path.[/quote]

My answer is the same pro-mages give when questioned why don't we fight Tevinter. One problem at a time.
I'm not fond of feudalism in the least but, as our own world proves, it can be defeated.

I mean, right now you're not even denying that mages take over every society they live in. You're just saying "It's not so bad." [/quote]

I'm pointing out there's a ruler in every society in Thedas, since democracy doesn't seem to exist. The Avvar and the Chasind have their shamans, and their role as leaders is tied to the mythology of the Witches of the Wild having taught the early shamans of their tribes. The seers clearly have an important role in Rivaini society. The Dalish don't fear or hate magic, and they see it as a gift of the Creators.

However, for all the condemnation you place on the Dalish for allowing mages to have positions of leadership, the clans seem to allow for more freedom among their people than any human society we have. Velanna and Merrill were able to leave the clan of their own free will, while Danella of Vigil's Keep faces the risk of being imprisoned or executed for leaving her post.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Merchants ,bakers ,soldiers (they will be still needed) , leaders (magic have nothing to do with that just how talented individual you are) ,trainers ,farmers ,artists and many others.Well Koreans crush others when playing on the piano xD but rly mages will crush others in some profesion as i said , mages can't be viewing as mages it's like saying that if russia have oil that all humans have monopol , mages can split into social groups like every other human and mages doesen't have monopol at least one group.Some day one country can have monopol on some sort resource like chantry have monopol on lyrium.You can't chew mages because they are better doctors than or attack mage leader because he is a mage but if he wasn't a mage you could have nothing to him. Sorry for bad writing but im tired and my brain misses letters.

[vpacheco1984]

MisterJB wrote...

vpacheco1984 wrote...
Maybe they can a mage smith could put out better weapons, furinture, tableware or whatever faster and better then a mundane but they may not. Look at Wade he was a mundane and considered the one of the best in Thadus. Just becasue someone has magic doesn't mean they will be better.

Incorrect. Wade freely admits the dwarves of Orzammar make the best armors. However, in the comic books, we see a teenager apostate who know only one spell; how to create fire; and yet is capable of making weapons that cut through dwarven armor and the Carta tries to force her to work for them.
Therefore, one can see how she could train apprentrices who would dominate the metallurgy industry.

If you want to use farming the same thing, just becasue  they have magic doesn't mean they will grow bigger and better crops.

There's probrably a spell for that somewhere.

Even if they do they could very well help their mundane neighbors  with their own crops.

Nope, magic will be a sought after good. Goods are commercialized, not given away.

I stated that Wade was ONE OF THE BEST not the best yeah there are the one who are better like the dwarves, but of course with that logic it means that there shouldn't be any human weapon or armor smiths becasue the dwarves are better the human smiths. So with that teenage apostate had completely cornered the market on smithying? Was there no other smiths? Was the apostate living in a mansion with all the money get got for his weapons? The answers to all of those question are no, right. But it sounds more like she was a good smith rather then anything to do with the spell. Do you think she is the only one the Carta would strong arm into working for them? Again the answer is no.

Not true because farms are often part of a community and if one fails it could effect the whole community can suffer. In fact it is reather common for farmers to help one another out.

But it doesn't matter what anyone says you are going to keep to your narrow minded and fatalistic views of the world and people. 

[MisterJB]

LobselVith8 wrote...
Being a mage doesn't automatically make a person the First or the Keeper; Lanaya had to contend with several other canidates to earn the right to become Zathrian's First.

Not but only mages can be First or Keeper which are the positions with only real authority.

 Also, you continue to neglect the importance of the elders, who have positions of authority despite being non-mages.

I do so because they only has the authority the Keeper allows them to have and if the Keeper says something, they have no way of going against it except by abandoning the clan.
A good example of this is DA2 where things got so bad even the Crafter left the group.

Furthermore, the Dalish believe that their ancestors were immortal elves who could spend decades in dialogue with one another. We also know that the Dalish who live away from humans seem to live longer, depending on how many generations the respective elves have lived away from humans.

Lovely, I'm sure that's very irrelevant in another debate.

Ashalle said the protagonist's mother was a hunter, and her father was the Keeper before Marethari, and she only mentions the elders forbidding the union, not the clan's other Keeper. It was also a decision by the clan not to talk about the heritage of the Dalish protagonist, which means it was a collective decision, rather than a singular one.

They forbid the non-mage from their own clan, they did not forbid the Keeper mage from the other clan from doing anything.

There seems to be no indication that a mage or a seer governs the kingdom of Rivain as ruler, in the way that Alistair or Anora can lead Ferelden as the new King or Queen.

I posted the exact quote from the book which makes it clear the Seers lead the Rivaini communities. I don't know anything about the royal family. Maybe they have no real power outside of their palace like in Antiva.

Given that the Circle of Rivain is, in theory, under the juristiction of the Andrastian Chantry, rather than the Imperial Chantry (where mages can be enslaved), I'm not sure how that applies.

And the Circle was said to be a front, nothing more.

I'm pointing out there's a ruler in every society in Thedas, since democracy doesn't seem to exist. The Avvar and the Chasind have their shamans, and their role as leaders is tied to the mythology of the Witches of the Wild having taught the early shamans of their tribes. The seers clearly have an important role in Rivaini society. The Dalish don't fear or hate magic, and they see it as a gift of the Creators.

Yes and I believe that referring that whenever mages are free, that ruler is a mage is worthy if we're discussing if mages should be free.
"Should mages be free?
No, they take over any society they live in" It's that simple.

However, for all the condemnation you place on the Dalish for allowing mages to have positions of leadership

It's not about mages having positions of leadership. It's about the position of leadership being reserved for a mage even if there are more qualified non-mages.

the clans seem to allow for more freedom among their people than any human society we have. Velanna and Merrill were able to leave the clan of their own free will, while Danella of Vigil's Keep faces the risk of being imprisoned or executed for leaving her post.

Yeah, different situations. You're comparing two schims amongst the clan and a soldier leaving her post in a time of war thus endangering the civillian population. Humans can travel between countries if they can afford it.

And again, just because it works sometimes, doesn't change the larger principle of which is non-mages shouldn't be dominated by mages. Again, you're not even denying it happens, you're justifying it.

[MisterJB]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Merchants ,

If the goods are being monopolized by mages, they remain the ones in power. Non-mages would just be the middleman.
Altough, yes, I don't see the merchant princes of Antiva capitulating that easily.

bakers

Not really important.

soldiers (they will be still needed) ,

Tevinter has soldiers.

leaders (magic have nothing to do with that just how talented individual you are)

Talent also never had much do with ruling.
Magic doesn't make one a good leader, of course, but, inevitably, the social group with more power will place one of their own in the "throne".

mages can't be viewing as mages it's like saying that if russia have oil that all humans have monopol , mages can split into social groups like every other human and mages doesen't have monopol at least one group.Some day one country can have monopol on some sort resource like chantry have monopol on lyrium.

The fact that humans are a divided people doesn't change the fact elves are second class citizens in any city they live in. Take a look at the Alienages and see the future of non-mages if mages are allowed to participate in society.

[LobselVith8]

[quote]MisterJB wrote...

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

Being a mage doesn't automatically make a person the First or the Keeper; Lanaya had to contend with several other canidates to earn the right to become Zathrian's First.[/quote]

Not but only mages can be First or Keeper which are the positions with only real authority. [/quote]

Which is directly contradicted by the Dalish Warden's origin.

[quote]MisterJB wrote...

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

Also, you continue to neglect the importance of the elders, who have positions of authority despite being non-mages. [/quote]

I do so because they only has the authority the Keeper allows them to have and if the Keeper says something, they have no way of going against it except by abandoning the clan.
A good example of this is DA2 where things got so bad even the Crafter left the group. [/quote]

You have absolutely no evidence that any of the elders contested Marethari's decision. None.

[quote]MisterJB wrote...

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

Furthermore, the Dalish believe that their ancestors were immortal elves who could spend decades in dialogue with one another. We also know that the Dalish who live away from humans seem to live longer, depending on how many generations the respective elves have lived away from humans. [/quote]

Lovely, I'm sure that's very irrelevant in another debate. [/quote]

You're the one who brought up Dalish lore. I simply gave it context.

[quote]MisterJB wrote...

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

Ashalle said the protagonist's mother was a hunter, and her father was the Keeper before Marethari, and she only mentions the elders forbidding the union, not the clan's other Keeper. It was also a decision by the clan not to talk about the heritage of the Dalish protagonist, which means it was a collective decision, rather than a singular one.
[/quote]

They forbid the non-mage from their own clan, they did not forbid the Keeper mage from the other clan from doing anything. [/quote]

The elders had forbidden the union between the two, which is why the Keeper and the hunter had to meet in secret.

[quote]MisterJB wrote...

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

There seems to be no indication that a mage or a seer governs the kingdom of Rivain as ruler, in the way that Alistair or Anora can lead Ferelden as the new King or Queen.[/quote]

I posted the exact quote from the book which makes it clear the Seers lead the Rivaini communities. I don't know anything about the royal family. Maybe they have no real power outside of their palace like in Antiva. [/quote]

Again, I'm not contesting what you said was revealed in World of Thedas; I'm simply saying there was absolutely no indication given in Origins or Dragon Age II that such was the case for the seers.

[quote]MisterJB wrote...

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

Given that the Circle of Rivain is, in theory, under the juristiction of the Andrastian Chantry, rather than the Imperial Chantry (where mages can be enslaved), I'm not sure how that applies.[/quote]

And the Circle was said to be a front, nothing more. [/quote]

It wasn't a front; it simply operated very, very differently than the rest of the Circles in the Andrastian kingdoms, with mages having relationships with their family outside the Circle, and passing on their traditions.

[quote]MisterJB wrote...

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

I'm pointing out there's a ruler in every society in Thedas, since democracy doesn't seem to exist. The Avvar and the Chasind have their shamans, and their role as leaders is tied to the mythology of the Witches of the Wild having taught the early shamans of their tribes. The seers clearly have an important role in Rivaini society. The Dalish don't fear or hate magic, and they see it as a gift of the Creators. [/quote]

Yes and I believe that referring that whenever mages are free, that ruler is a mage is worthy if we're discussing if mages should be free.
"Should mages be free?
No, they take over any society they live in" It's that simple. [/quote]

We have no evidence at the moment that suggests the kingdom of Rivain is ruled by a mage. Kolgrim was the ruler in Haven, and he wasn't a mage. The Dalish clans are presided over by the Keeper and the elders. I don't see any reason to condemn the mages.

[quote]MisterJB wrote...

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

However, for all the condemnation you place on the Dalish for allowing mages to have positions of leadership [/quote]

It's not about mages having positions of leadership. It's about the position of leadership being reserved for a mage even if there are more qualified non-mages. [/quote]

We don't know how the shamans are chosen among the Avvar or the Chasind, while we do know that the Keeper and the First have to earn the right if there are other contenders, like we know from Lanaya's story (where she said she contended with several others for the right to become the First of the clan).

[quote]MisterJB wrote...

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

the clans seem to allow for more freedom among their people than any human society we have. Velanna and Merrill were able to leave the clan of their own free will, while Danella of Vigil's Keep faces the risk of being imprisoned or executed for leaving her post. [/quote]

Yeah, different situations. You're comparing two schims amongst the clan and a soldier leaving her post in a time of war thus endangering the civillian population. Humans can travel between countries if they can afford it.

And again, just because it works sometimes, doesn't change the larger principle of which is non-mages shouldn't be dominated by mages. Again, you're not even denying it happens, you're justifying it. [/quote]

Merrill was the only designated First at the time, when the clans are actively hunted down by the templars, who threaten their lives in the same way that the darkspawn threatened the lives of the people of Amaranthine. I think the comparison is valid.

And I don't see anyone arguing that non-mages should be dominated by mages, so I don't see the point to this kind of language.

[TheKomandorShepard]

not important try live without bread !?
Nope as i said mages can't monopolize everything because they can't create everyting with magic and non mages still can be farmers or blacksmiths.Talent have a lot do with ruling if warden wasn't born leader so companions kicked him from leadership.Of course that tevinter have soldiers every nation have but tevinter have mages with non mages being mage don't make you great tactican.Social group with more power -nobles. Elves are second class citizens because chantry enslave them and threw them into alienages and calling that mercy they hate them because that same religon dominate almost entire thedas in Tevinter there are no such problems at least for that i heard .

[Medhia Nox]

@TheKomandorShepard: Wait - are you really saying there's no elven slavery in Tevinter?

You do know they murder their slaves for mana in Tevinter right? And a LOT of elven ones.

But of course - the morally superior mages of the rest of Thedas could NEVER do that.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 30 juin 2013 - 01:27 .

[vpacheco1984]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@TheKomandorShepard: Wait - are you really saying there's no elven slavery in Tevinter?

You do know they murder their slaves for mana in Tevinter right? And a LOT of elven ones.

But of course - the morally superior mages of the rest of Thedas could NEVER do that.

No one said there isn't slavery in Tevinter or that they don't kill their slaves for power. Nor has anyone claimed the mages are morally superior. But the Chantry and Templars are not morally superior either, they do treat the elves really badly force them to live in Alienages, attack Dalish clans to take their keepers to the circle, often having to kill the whole clan to  get one mage. Oh wait the morally superior mundane would NEVER do that. Please note scarcasim. 

[The Hierophant]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...
Ehhh so what they are controlled by spirts so they are acting like mad peoples or evil ,bend law of reality thats what primitive peoples think about science like flying huge explosion from little box that  system doesn't mean that can't be created if everyone think like you we are be still in Middle Ages because everyone would think that science is dangerous and can't be controled with common security system and bends law of reality ... Even one charismatic human can create army by philosophy or religion and do much more harm than any mage could.Look at your chantry and judge how much harm they create by racism and fear.

Nice dodging on the dangers of possession, plus the rest of you're post makes no sense in regards to mine.

[MisterJB]

LobselVith8 wrote...
You have absolutely no evidence that any of the elders contested Marethari's decision. None.

The Chief Crafter just packed his stuff and left. Given the fact dalish clans are quite a cohesive group, I seriously doubt he would have just left without even trying to tell Marethari she was being crazy.

The elders had forbidden the union between the two, which is why the Keeper and the hunter had to meet in secret.

The elders forbid the Warden's mother; a non-mage; because they had authority over her. They didn't forbid his father, a mage, from anything.

It wasn't a front; it simply operated very, very differently than the rest of the Circles in the Andrastian kingdoms, with mages having relationships with their family outside the Circle, and passing on their traditions.

The Circle was meant as a place to, basically, keep mages in and keep spirits out. In Rivain, mages were out and spirits were in people.
That sounds like a front.

We have no evidence at the moment that suggests the kingdom of Rivain is ruled by a mage.

We do know their communities are, though.

Kolgrim was the ruler in Haven, and he wasn't a mage.

True but that's the only example you'll find.

I don't see any reason to condemn the mages.

I'm not condemning the mages; not particularly anyway. I'm just saying in most societies they are free in, they end up extablishing themselves as the rulers and that thus, this should be taken into account when discussing a possible independency of the Circles.

We don't know how the shamans are chosen among the Avvar or the Chasind, while we do know that the Keeper and the First have to earn the right if there are other contenders, like we know from Lanaya's story (where she said she contended with several others for the right to become the First of the clan).

And these others were all mages. What if a non-mage is the most qualified to rule? S/he's not even given the opportunity.

Merrill was the only designated First at the time, when the clans are actively hunted down by the templars, who threaten their lives in the same way that the darkspawn threatened the lives of the people of Amaranthine. I think the comparison is valid.

The clans are not at war with the Templars. The lore actually specifically tell us that templars rarely go after the Dalish Keepers. It's not the same as being at war with creatures like the Darkspawn.

And I don't see anyone arguing that non-mages should be dominated by mages, so I don't see the point to this kind of language.

Perhaps you should be more careful with your own choice of words. If I say that mages inevitably dominate non-mages and you start saying things like how the Dalish are so much freer than human kingdoms, it sounds like you're accepting this domination and trying to justify it.

[Merc Mama]

Know this thread has been up for awhile, but I still wanna throw my views in the soup!
Mage all the way, was so in DA:O, DA2 and god willing in DA:I.

The only thing I would change in this war, is what the Templars see as evil magic. Being able to shapeshift and blood magic isn't that bad, when it comes to blood magic if you aren't scarificing others and using your own blood, or even controlling others, than you shouldn't be comdemned for that.
Summoning demons, controlling people and sacrifices, yes. Those are evil, but simple things like having the magic, shouldn't be considered pure evil and regardless of how annoying he was to listen to, Anders was right. Chantry takes it too far with their anti-magic practices and just make it worse.
Templars don't nee to be disbanded, just need to back down and only do thier job when someone has actually killed or done wrong.

[vpacheco1984]

MisterJB: I knew that everything you have said about mages sounded familiar and I couldn't quite remember why. Then I remember a **** propaganda film I had to watch for history class and you are repeating everything almost word or word what the film said about the Jews of course there are a few variation such as using the word mage instead of Jew so it's pretty much word for word fo what was said in the film.

Modifié par vpacheco1984, 30 juin 2013 - 03:44 .

[TEWR]

Still no source. And I would very much like to know Miss Day's source because everything about elven culture points in the opposite direction.

She said she consulted with them on the youtube link to the third episode of the Redemption series. Jedi Master of Orion I believe was the one who asked (certainly the one who linked it).

[BlueMagitek]

Oh come now TEWR, some people won't take the word of a writer on the lifespan of the people of Thedas, but they'd be willing to accept a voice actress'?

[TEWR]

Honestly, I don't see why not. She said she did the research by consulting with the DA team. What would lying gain her?

[BlueMagitek]

That was not the point of my statement.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@TheKomandorShepard: Wait - are you really saying there's no elven slavery in Tevinter?

You do know they murder their slaves for mana in Tevinter right? And a LOT of elven ones.

But of course - the morally superior mages of the rest of Thedas could NEVER do that.

slavery is for everyone humans or elves or dwarfes and even weak mages possible i mean there elves have chance look on this elven woman who trade slaves with magister she have position and command in andrastian culture such thing is unusual even impossible due to racism.You missing the point i don't like tevinter also i don't like chantry and templars in that same way but i point out that there racism isn't just common thing like in other part of thedas.And you think tevinter mages = all living mages so you are still blind because tevinter have own culture like orlais which is based on coruption like orlais.    

Hierophant well peasants also rebelled against science you aren't alone.
Of course we should hide and imprion everyone who have ability to harm others oo no science bends law of reality science is dangerous nooo!!

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 30 juin 2013 - 06:11 .

[The Hierophant]

DA's version of magic doesn't equal irl science, your point makes no sense.

[Lotion Soronarr]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
I didn't claim that.
However, it's obvious your grasp of english language is poor, so I'll let that slide.

"They follow the law.
And they would arrest you if the law said they should. And in some countries the laws are such."
Also i read your previous comments from others topics when you you justify templars killing mages because mages have broken their law no matter how ridiculous and now try to say that if somone arest you because law say that should everything is perfect.I read that betwen you saying that addicting peoples is not evil as long they do that for some psychofanatical religious organisation with free brainwashing but that ok because self-sacrifice yeah talibans are heros too they are not evil they just sacrifice themselves thanks for opening my eyes. 

Why do I smell a troll?
Because you are either incredibly stupid nad obtuse, or you are deliberately trollign. I see no third option.
You are again, reading into it and deriving meaning and intention from my words that is quite simply not there.

So If you say "no one gases people" and I replay with "the natzi's did". You automaticly concluse "You suport natzis!!"
That is the level of idiocity you are displaying here.

In todays world there are places and instances where you could be locked up or killed because the law sez so. The reasons differ, but that is beside the point.

[Lotion Soronarr]

vpacheco1984 wrote...
Wow. Really? I can read just fine but you have learn to write and express you thoughs better. Also you're the one with the broken logic since you seem to think that as long as the law says so then it is okay.

Never said that. Please, provide a quote that states that DIRECTLY (not indirectly. I don't give a crap what you think I suport/claim indirectly)

If you didn't think that then you should state that. But you didn't you made it sound like you approved that some countries have laws that make it perfectly leagel for the law enforcement to grab anyone and hold them without due prosesse.

That would depend on wether you agree if grabing someone for reason X is justified or not, and hwat constitutes as due process.

As for you using people with a mental illness or a communicable diesea being segrated from the rest of the population is true but you forgot to mention once they are helped, be it taking the proper med or have been cured of their illness are released and allowed to go back to their lives not locked away for the rest of their lives, except in rare cases where there is no treatment for their illness mental or physical. Broken logic again.

How? Mages are never free of demons.
The Harrowing is pretty much useless. It weeds the weakest and that helps a bit I guess, but even the harrowed mages fall again and again.

Also don't say we deliberatly misread and nitpick. But if we do then so do you. More broken logic.

Oh? What did I misread?
Unlike you I read well and refference what I am talking about. IF I did misread something of yours, why didnt' you bother pointing it out untill now?
I'lltell you why - because you're in the corner and you're defaulting to the "we'll, if I'm not right then we're both wrong" defense.

I don't think either of said that non-mages are as dangerous as mages. Though some can be it's rare take Fenris for instance he can be as dangerous as a mage, Templars as well. Spirit warriors could propbably be put into this catigory as well. The fact you refuse to see that non-mages can be dangerous or that they are somehow more sanitly while mages are evil given form is "reason leaving the building, got on a rocket and then left the galazy".  Once again broken logic.

Nothing broken there. Except yours that is.
Mundanes can be dangerous, but not even nearly as dangerous as mages.
They aren't actively targeted by demons (in fact, demons don't even register mundanes. They can't tell apart a mundane from a rock)
They can't become powerfull abominations.
They can't mind control or incinerate entire areas with fire.

Mages aren't evil. They are dangerous precisely because they are so human and the price to pay if they fall is so much greater.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 30 juin 2013 - 10:00 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

eluvianix wrote...

 

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
You should really change your name to "blind man on shroom who cannot read and halluciantes."
Because I didn't. Learn to read.
Just because I point out the existance of different laws and instances where humans and nations have acted exactly contrary to what the two of your claim, that doesn't mean I endorse everything.
Your arguments are crap. Your logic is broken. No wonder both of you can't do anything else but to deliberately misread and nitpick.
I mean seriously.. That non-mage is a dangerous as a mage? Once I see those kinds of "arguments" pop up, there is no discussion to be had, because reason has left the building, got on a rocket and then left the galaxy

Pot and kettle man. The only reason mages  can be dangerous is because of what might be, not always what is. So it's fair to condemn and kill them just because of a possibility?

That would depend on whom you ask.

Hypothetical: A man comes from a quaranteened area with a deadly virus. He might be infected. Or not. You do not know.
Do you allow him in your village? Will you risk your family, firends and neighbours for that mans sake? Do you have the right to risk their lives to satisfy your notion of morality? Is your feeling of warm and fuzzies for doing a good deed more important than their lives?

You say locking up a mage is immoral... Maybe. But not doesng it isn't? Risking the lives of others is very moral now?

There is no "right", moral answer.

There is only a practical one.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Kolgrim was hte ruler in Hevan

Was he? Or was he only the leader of the reavers?
I don't specificly recall anywhere being specified that he was the leader of the entire village. And given that you killed everyone in the village (including everyone in the church) before you reached him, it stands to reason that even if he wasn't the leader, he is now.

EDIT: Hm...he does say he is the leader of the Desciples of Andraste.
Either way, given Kolgrims ability to calm the dragon and him being a reaver, I'd say he is a very, very unique case.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 30 juin 2013 - 10:08 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
I didn't claim that.
However, it's obvious your grasp of english language is poor, so I'll let that slide.

"They follow the law.
And they would arrest you if the law said they should. And in some countries the laws are such."
Also i read your previous comments from others topics when you you justify templars killing mages because mages have broken their law no matter how ridiculous and now try to say that if somone arest you because law say that should everything is perfect.I read that betwen you saying that addicting peoples is not evil as long they do that for some psychofanatical religious organisation with free brainwashing but that ok because self-sacrifice yeah talibans are heros too they are not evil they just sacrifice themselves thanks for opening my eyes. 

Why do I smell a troll?
Because you are either incredibly stupid nad obtuse, or you are deliberately trollign. I see no third option.
You are again, reading into it and deriving meaning and intention from my words that is quite simply not there.

So If you say "no one gases people" and I replay with "the natzi's did". You automaticly concluse "You suport natzis!!"
That is the level of idiocity you are displaying here.

In todays world there are places and instances where you could be locked up or killed because the law sez so. The reasons differ, but that is beside the point.

Nope you constantly support templars because they are law at least thats your one argument  as i said i saw you comments in others topics when you said that templars are right in killing mage because they broke their law.Later you excuse them because some other countries may do that same  and yes if no one gases peoples is used to justify that some organisation gases peoples you support not ****s but gassing peoples. And still you try justify this because in some places in world that is common ...  

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 30 juin 2013 - 10:23 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Merc Mama wrote...
Templars don't nee to be disbanded, just need to back down and only do thier job when someone has actually killed or done wrong.

By then it's too late.