1799 réponses à ce sujet

[Lotion Soronarr]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...
Nope you constantly support templars because they are law at least thats your one argument  as i said i saw you comments in others topics when you said that templars are right in killing mage because they broke their law.Later you excuse them because some other countries may do that same  and yes if no one gases peoples is used to justify that some organisation gases peoples you support not ****s but gassing peoples. And still you try justify this because in some places in world that is common ...  

Nope again.
I support the tempalrs becasue there is no better alternative.
...
And agian with that stupid BS. You now say I support natzis?
Allright then. I'll play your game.


No. You are the one who supports natzi's. You want mages to roam free and enslave everyone and place them into slave camps to be worked to death. You said that (indireclty) and no matter what you say I will not believe you said anything otherwise. I also refuse to provide any proof you said that and I'll also keep repeating that you spoort natzi's at every oportunity I get.

Have fun.

[Xilizhra]

I support the tempalrs becasue there is no better alternative.

And if this is shown to be demonstrably false in DAI?

[TheKomandorShepard]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...
Nope you constantly support templars because they are law at least thats your one argument  as i said i saw you comments in others topics when you said that templars are right in killing mage because they broke their law.Later you excuse them because some other countries may do that same  and yes if no one gases peoples is used to justify that some organisation gases peoples you support not ****s but gassing peoples. And still you try justify this because in some places in world that is common ...  

Nope again.
I support the tempalrs becasue there is no better alternative.
...
And agian with that stupid BS. You now say I support natzis?
Allright then. I'll play your game.


No. You are the one who supports natzi's. You want mages to roam free and enslave everyone and place them into slave camps to be worked to death. You said that (indireclty) and no matter what you say I will not believe you said anything otherwise. I also refuse to provide any proof you said that and I'll also keep repeating that you spoort natzi's at every oportunity I get.


Have fun.

Nope i don't say that you support natzis (oh irony you still cry that i can't read) but you try justify templars killing because somrone can be dangerus and because law say that and then protect them because in some countries they do that same for the law i don't know you live totalitarian state and if law say something must be followed and is right no matter what?
PS you don't have to cry that your argument are "if some country raping peoples is right that we are justified in raping peoples because some sick goverment may do it too"

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 30 juin 2013 - 10:40 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Xilizhra wrote...

I support the tempalrs becasue there is no better alternative.

And if this is shown to be demonstrably false in DAI?

And if is shown to be demonstrably right?

Nope i don't say that you support natzis (oh irony you still cry that i
can't read) but you try justify templars killing because someone can be
dangerus and because law say that and then protect them because in some
countries they do that same for the law i don't know you live
totalitarian state and if law say something must be followed and is
right no matter what?
PS you don't have to cry that your argument
are "if some country raping peoples is right that we are justified in
raping peoples because some sick goverment may do it too"

I never made that argument.
I never said "It's OK to kill because in some countries it's OK to kill".
Laws can be good or bad - depending on ones moral views. But more importantly, laws can be based on reason, laws can be necessary.

Mages being confined to circles is something I see as necessary.
It is something I see as reasonable and justified. Wether or not its moral (for a given definition of moral) is a whole different matter.



...

Also you support natzi's.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I support the tempalrs becasue there is no better alternative.

And if this is shown to be demonstrably false in DAI?

And if is shown to be demonstrably right?

Nope i don't say that you support natzis (oh irony you still cry that i
can't read) but you try justify templars killing because someone can be
dangerus and because law say that and then protect them because in some
countries they do that same for the law i don't know you live
totalitarian state and if law say something must be followed and is
right no matter what?
PS you don't have to cry that your argument
are "if some country raping peoples is right that we are justified in
raping peoples because some sick goverment may do it too"

I never made that argument.
I never said "It's OK to kill because in some countries it's OK to kill".
Laws can be good or bad - depending on ones moral views. But more importantly, laws can be based on reason, laws can be necessary.

Mages being confined to circles is something I see as necessary.
It is something I see as reasonable and justified. Wether or not its moral (for a given definition of moral) is a whole different matter.



...

Also you support natzi's.

But you try justify saying... ok as i said nothing new just read my previous comment.
Hittler saw death camps to as necessary and he see that same way wether or not its moral is a whole different matter a lot tyrants shared your vision.Ethic is one of the most important things without it even your laws will be
corrupted laws should not violate human rights if they do they are bad and every who think otherwise are tyrants whatever they try justify as necessarily evil or not (there is no such thing as necessarily evil like necessarily good never will exist) we choose what path we will follow.

[Lotion Soronarr]

How naive.

Ethics is subjective.
Necessary evil does exist unfortunately. Using Hitler as an example is pointless. Hitler liked dogs. Does that make everoyne who likes dogs evil?

Hell, you know the rumors that the US army shot down the 4th plane during the 9/11? What would you call that? Evil?

The words is not as simple as that. You can't just throw labes so easily.

Which is exactly what most (if not all) pro-mages are doing. To you everything is black and white. Your utter moral certanty makes you more of a fanatic than you accuse templars of being.

[vpacheco1984]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

vpacheco1984 wrote...
Wow. Really? I can read just fine but you have learn to write and express you thoughs better. Also you're the one with the broken logic since you seem to think that as long as the law says so then it is okay.

Never said that. Please, provide a quote that states that DIRECTLY (not indirectly. I don't give a crap what you think I suport/claim indirectly)

Really? Back pedding again?

If you didn't think that then you should state that. But you didn't you made it sound like you approved that some countries have laws that make it perfectly leagel for the law enforcement to grab anyone and hold them without due prosesse.

That would depend on wether you agree if grabing someone for reason X is justified or not, and hwat constitutes as due process.

Oh you know phone call, lawyer, stuff like that. Not taken and thrown in a cell with no explanation.

As for you using people with a mental illness or a communicable diesea being segrated from the rest of the population is true but you forgot to mention once they are helped, be it taking the proper med or have been cured of their illness are released and allowed to go back to their lives not locked away for the rest of their lives, except in rare cases where there is no treatment for their illness mental or physical. Broken logic again.

How? Mages are never free of demons.
The Harrowing is pretty much useless. It weeds the weakest and that helps a bit I guess, but even the harrowed mages fall again and again.

The Harrowing works just fine and there are plenty of mages outside of the Circle who don't get possessed. The fact you keep ignoring this is just sad.

Also don't say we deliberatly misread and nitpick. But if we do then so do you. More broken logic.

Oh? What did I misread?
Unlike you I read well and refference what I am talking about. IF I did misread something of yours, why didnt' you bother pointing it out untill now?
I'lltell you why - because you're in the corner and you're defaulting to the "we'll, if I'm not right then we're both wrong" defense.

I have pointed out what I said while you just scream I didn't say that.

I don't think either of said that non-mages are as dangerous as mages. Though some can be it's rare take Fenris for instance he can be as dangerous as a mage, Templars as well. Spirit warriors could propbably be put into this catigory as well. The fact you refuse to see that non-mages can be dangerous or that they are somehow more sanitly while mages are evil given form is "reason leaving the building, got on a rocket and then left the galazy".  Once again broken logic.

Nothing broken there. Except yours that is.
Mundanes can be dangerous, but not even nearly as dangerous as mages.
They aren't actively targeted by demons (in fact, demons don't even register mundanes. They can't tell apart a mundane from a rock)
They can't become powerfull abominations.
They can't mind control or incinerate entire areas with fire.

Mind control is your go to arrgument isn't? Since not all mages turn to blood magic this argument is just an excuses to punish the many for the few. Mundane can become abominations, the Wihelm's granddaughter was almost possessed but kitty. But something doesn't have to be a mage to possessed you know demons and spirits can possess animals, mundane, trees, corpses. They can incinerate an entire are with fire, Gatlok the Qunari explosive, the Dwarven explosives from DAA. There are all kinds of other ways to incinerate an entire area with fire.

Mages aren't evil. They are dangerous precisely because they are so human and the price to pay if they fall is so much greater.

You surrently make it sound like they are both evil and dangerous and they are subhuman and are weaker then other. That every third mage falls pray to a demon, whne that isn't turn. Now I wash my hands of you. You are narrow-minded and are constantly backpeddling and truthfully I tired of arguing with someon who won't listen. Don't say I don't listen I do and I know mages can be extremely dangrous but as long as they are properly trained don't need to be locked up alike an animal and treated worse.

[RobRam10]

What's this talk about HitLA and SIZAN and real world stuff you guys better chill before moderators pop in kek.

Also

I support anarchy and chaos.

Long live Tevinter.

Modifié par RobRam10, 30 juin 2013 - 12:32 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

How tyranical
I see people like achieve political power and put peoples into prisons because they might do something wrong or may be dangerous full totalitarian state.

The world is that what people create it.Are you saing about libertarians , resolutionists or players speaking about pro-mages?In game examples are guys who want live own life and be free chantry takes that from them obvious that they will fight but more they try be free chantry is more aggressive so they picking on any resources what they can they are just desperate peoples who try fight with tyrant they are not evil as long they not attack common people and not abuse their freedom.As for the players their choice who they play u can play as the messiah hawke pro mage who try just make everyone happy and protect their rights and you can play psycho pro mage who cares only about money.

Rob they punish for that kind stuff?
But tevinter isn't anarchy and chaos darkspawn are.

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 30 juin 2013 - 12:48 .

[MstrJedi Kyle]

In the middle, murdering all of them! Bwa hahahahahahahahahaha

[DPSSOC]

vpacheco1984 wrote...
You surrently make it sound like they are both evil and dangerous and they are subhuman and are weaker then other. That every third mage falls pray to a demon, whne that isn't turn.

 
Well let's see here.  Morrigan, Irving, Uldred, Bethany, Merril, Anders, Decimus, Alain, Grace, Feynriel, Danarius, Thrask's Daughter...  Every third seems to be standing up.

Edit: Wynne did fall prey.  Ok so Huon, Emile, Wynne

Modifié par DPSSOC, 30 juin 2013 - 01:01 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

DPSSOC wrote...

vpacheco1984 wrote...
You surrently make it sound like they are both evil and dangerous and they are subhuman and are weaker then other. That every third mage falls pray to a demon, whne that isn't turn.

 
Well let's see here.  Wynne, Irving, Uldred, Bethany, Merril, Anders, Decimus, Alain, Grace, Feynriel, Danarius, Thrask's Daughter...  Every third seems to be standing up.

have http://dragonage.wik...i/Category:Magi besides kirwkwall have verry weak veil add that mages are in terrible situation because templar in kirkwall.

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 30 juin 2013 - 01:00 .

[DPSSOC]

Wait how are we defining "falling prey" to demons? Is it just being tricked/used by them or are we only counting possession?

[TheKomandorShepard]

i guess possession because our mage warden can be tricked by demon too not for long but still.

[Lotion Soronarr]

[quote]vpacheco1984 wrote...

Really? Back pedding again?[/quote]

Really? Halucinating again?



[quote]
Oh you know phone call, lawyer, stuff like that. Not taken and thrown in a cell with no explanation.[/quote]

There is an explanation.
You're a mage.
Waht due process are we talkign about here? How would a phone call or a lawyer (neither of which exist in TheDas) help? You are either a mage or you are not. There is no uncertanty. There are no degrees. There is no appeal.



[quote][quote]
How? Mages are never free of demons.
The Harrowing is pretty much useless. It weeds the weakest and that helps a bit I guess, but even the harrowed mages fall again and again.

The Harrowing works just fine and there are plenty of mages outside of the Circle who don't get possessed. The fact you keep ignoring this is just sad.[/quote]

Uldred sez hay. And Orsino. And many, many others.

How can you ignore this is beyond me.
The Harowing is not a guarantee of anything.



[quote]
I have pointed out what I said while you just scream I didn't say that.[/quote]

You've done nothing but deliberately twist my words.



[quote]
Mind control is your go to arrgument isn't? Since not all mages turn to blood magic this argument is just an excuses to punish the many for the few. Mundane can become abominations, the Wihelm's granddaughter was almost possessed but kitty. But something doesn't have to be a mage to possessed you know demons and spirits can possess animals, mundane, trees, corpses. They can incinerate an entire are with fire, Gatlok the Qunari explosive, the Dwarven explosives from DAA. There are all kinds of other ways to incinerate an entire area with fire.[/quote]

Only mages can do magic.
Mundanes do not become real abominations.

"While dead mages and those who exhibit no magical abilities are also
potential hosts, they cannot become abominations, as the spirits gain no
additional powers through possesion.[1]"

Mundanes aren't targeted. Mundanes possesed by demons are no where near as dangerous as a real abomination.

If you have 10 people with a bomb that might explode and you can't remove, you dont' let them roam free. You move them away from the population. Even if probably only 1 will explode.


[quote]
[quote]
Mages aren't evil. They are dangerous precisely because they are so human and the price to pay if they fall is so much greater.
[/quote]

You surrently make it sound like they are both evil and dangerous and they are subhuman and are weaker then other. That every third mage falls pray to a demon, whne that isn't turn. Now I wash my hands of you. You are narrow-minded and are constantly backpeddling and truthfully I tired of arguing with someon who won't listen. Don't say I don't listen I do and I know mages can be extremely dangrous but as long as they are properly trained don't need to be locked up alike an animal and treated worse.
[/quote]

You don't listen.
You don't think.
I won't be sadened by your departure.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 30 juin 2013 - 02:31 .

[Luiren]

Let's keep it civil okay people?

[nebu187]

Speaking of possession, a thought recently occured to me on this subject. Let's suppose, hypothetically, that there were no mages in the world (or that their population were drastically reduced through genocide), in such a scenario, would the demons be any less inclined to gain a foothold outside of the Fade? Granted, by possessing non-mages, they'd be less powerful, but arguably infinitely more dangerous due to the greater difficulty of identifying them. Of course, there's no tangible way to verify this because demonology is considered taboo, but if this were the case then you could argue that mages do the world a favour by their very existence and that targeting them for extinction would be a grave mistake.

Having said that, I annulled the Circles in both games for the purpose of making the war less bloody/long-drawn-out. And let's face it: the mages don't stand a fighting chance in a full-blown war; I could even imagine the Qunari deciding to aid the Templars on principle against the Saarebas.  

[Lotion Soronarr]

Well to a demon a mundane is effectively invisible, so without mages I don't think we'd be seeing more mundane possesions. A demon is just as likely to try to posses a rock or a tree, sicne he can't tell them apart from a human.

Mundane possesions are extreemly rare. The only instances we've seen them is when mages were involved.
I suppose it's possible for a mundane to be possesed in a place where the veil is extreemly thin, but people avoid such places in general and unlike a rock, a human being can attempt to resist.

[DKJaigen]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Well to a demon a mundane is effectively invisible, so without mages I don't think we'd be seeing more mundane possesions. A demon is just as likely to try to posses a rock or a tree, sicne he can't tell them apart from a human.

Mundane possesions are extreemly rare. The only instances we've seen them is when mages were involved.
I suppose it's possible for a mundane to be possesed in a place where the veil is extreemly thin, but people avoid such places in general and unlike a rock, a human being can attempt to resist.

Until the veil is torn asunder bahahaha.

[CrimsonZephyr]

Mages. The fact that the Chantry is led by Orlesian filth makes standing against their subordinates even easier.

[Lotion Soronarr]

DKJaigen wrote...

Until the veil is torn asunder bahahaha.

By fiendish, power-hungry mages.

The the demons will eat them, the temaplrs will kill the demons and the world will be at pece.

[Plaintiff]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

Until the veil is torn asunder bahahaha.

By fiendish, power-hungry mages.

The the demons will eat them, the temaplrs will kill the demons and the world will be at pece.

Who's gonna close the Veil, with all the mages gone?

Demons could just pour through it forever.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

Until the veil is torn asunder bahahaha.

By fiendish, power-hungry mages.

The the demons will eat them, the temaplrs will kill the demons and the world will be at pece.

Sorry dude but not only magic torn veil also wars and death whitout mages you are ..... and how do you know that is by power-hungry mages you just seen trailer is's stupid like saying that murderer is a mage but not knowing any details of crime... i sense hatred and racism in you:lol:

[MisterJB]

Plaintiff wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

Until the veil is torn asunder bahahaha.

By fiendish, power-hungry mages.

The the demons will eat them, the temaplrs will kill the demons and the world will be at pece.

Who's gonna close the Veil, with all the mages gone?

Demons could just pour through it forever.

We will approach a demon and explain how the more of its brethren there are in Thedas, the less humans there are to go around. We will make a deal; close the Veil and we will give you ten days of advance before we hunt you.
Once the demon strengthens the Veil like in "Warden's Keep", we will kill it on the spot.

[Plaintiff]

MisterJB wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

Until the veil is torn asunder bahahaha.

By fiendish, power-hungry mages.

The the demons will eat them, the temaplrs will kill the demons and the world will be at pece.

Who's gonna close the Veil, with all the mages gone?

Demons could just pour through it forever.

We will approach a demon and explain how the more of its brethren there are in Thedas, the less humans there are to go around. We will make a deal; close the Veil and we will give you ten days of advance before we hunt you.
Once the demon strengthens the Veil like in "Warden's Keep", we will kill it on the spot.

I don't think the demons possess humans as an end goal, I think they do it to breach through to the physical plane.

Now that they can swarm through enmasse, they have no reason to fear humans, and humans have nothing they want.