1799 réponses à ce sujet

[The Hierophant]

LobselVith8 wrote...
It was the Mask of Fen'Harel, and the ritual to open a portal into the Fade (that took place at Sundermount) required elven blood. However, the Mask was shattered.

BlueMagitek wrote...
I don't lie to you bro.

I checked it out. The probable authenticity of the Dalish gods existence has my interest now, thanks for the info.

Modifié par The Hierophant, 02 juillet 2013 - 03:41 .

[wolfhowwl]

MisterJB wrote...
I'm not talking of proposing an alliance with all the demons who crawl out of the Fade or anything similar. All I propose is that Pro-Templar Inquisitors have the option to, at the very least, attempt to trick a demon into closing the tear over giving the mages such a powerful bargaining tool.

Said Inquisitor must take great pride in their cunning and ability to manipulate people.

I am sure they won't get outmaneuvered.

[dragonflight288]

wolfhowwl wrote...

MisterJB wrote...
I'm not talking of proposing an alliance with all the demons who crawl out of the Fade or anything similar. All I propose is that Pro-Templar Inquisitors have the option to, at the very least, attempt to trick a demon into closing the tear over giving the mages such a powerful bargaining tool.

Said Inquisitor must take great pride in their cunning and ability to manipulate people.

I am sure they won't get outmaneuvered.

Pride demons are notorious for their being weak demons without much intelligence right? Nor are they known for preying on people's pride. 

[TEWR]

To get away from MisterJB's post (which I half-believe is simply him being facetious) wasn't it DPPSOC or Lazy Jer that wanted to see evidence of Dalish Elves having some sort of forum where non-mages can openly voice concerns and whatnot?

Well, while it's not in regards to just regular clan life, it does happen at the Arlathvhens (since we see non-Mage hahren in-game).

Codex Entry: Keeper Zathrian, Dalish Elf version:

"Even with all our magic and skill, we only delay the inevitable."

In Arlathvhen, it is common for all the hahren to hold a private council while their respective clans are still settling in. These meetings inevitably last well into the next day and end with furious shouting, such that many say that the true reason the clans all go their separate ways is that no two hahren can stand each other.

Zathrian is nothing at all like Keeper Marethari, but this is to be expected. He is older, more severe, and his clan is facing a much more terrible enemy than the usual shemlen that plague other clans.

[Plaintiff]

God, I cannot imagine having the patience to sift through the codex to find one teensy scrap of relevant information.

[TEWR]

Eh, I just sort of discovered it through google because I was looking for another codex. I didn't sift through the codex itself. 

I don't think I could do that either. I enjoy reading, but something about the DA codex's layout in the games strikes me as.... rather bland. And I can't be opening up another 60 tabs in Opera or Firefox with codexes I'll probably forget to read haha.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 02 juillet 2013 - 06:02 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Eh, I just sort of discovered it through google because I was looking for another codex. I didn't sift through the codex itself. 

I don't think I could do that either. I enjoy reading, but something about the DA codex's layout in the games strikes me as.... rather bland. And I can't be opening up another 60 tabs in Opera or Firefox with codexes I'll probably forget to read haha.

Now you're disappointing me, Redux. I thought you read that once and reproduced it from your photographic memory. You *are* a walking Dragon Age lore encyclopedia.

Just kidding of course. Except for the encyclopedia part.

[TEWR]

Lol, I had actually never read it before in my one Dalish playthrough. I assumed it was simply the same as non-Dalish playthroughs. =D

But now I've got it memorized . Axel from Kingdom Hearts would be proud. 

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 02 juillet 2013 - 06:29 .

[vpacheco1984]

So there I was...hip deep in a rice patty with hog under one arm and little dog under the other.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Who is that Masked Man wrote...

Templars customarily murder helpless peasants so they can steal all their stuff and sell it to buy bootleg lyrium. We just don't see the templars doing that, because the templars leave no survivors, and then they blame their own massacres on blood mages.

I'm betting that I have just as much proof of that as you do for your claim about the Dalish.

Codex. Read on dalish clans simply dissapearing without a trace.

We've seen two dalish clans.
One Keeper was a blood mage who ruined the lives of his clans and the cursed humans.
The other became an abomination.
A brilliant track record.

We've seen two Circles.

Need I continue?

A brilliant track record! The Chantry and the Dalish are tied.
Except, oh wait, no they aren't. The Dalish system still exists. The Chantry system has dissolved into open warfare.

It is a good track record actually. The Circles manage to contain abominations for almost 1000 years.
The Clans? Not so much.
Two clans lost by the actions of their Keepers. With each clan containing their people and lore, the loss of each clan is a big blow to the Dalish. Loss of a cirlce? Not a big loss. Some templars and mages die, but the people are safe.

[LobselVith8]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Who is that Masked Man wrote...

Templars customarily murder helpless peasants so they can steal all their stuff and sell it to buy bootleg lyrium. We just don't see the templars doing that, because the templars leave no survivors, and then they blame their own massacres on blood mages.

I'm betting that I have just as much proof of that as you do for your claim about the Dalish.

Codex. Read on dalish clans simply dissapearing without a trace.

The codex reads about their culture, their gods, and the Arlathvhen; as for why a clan might disappear, they are hunted down by templars, which is mainly why they are nomadic (as Merrill explains).

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Who is that Masked Man wrote...

We've seen two Circles.

Need I continue?

A brilliant track record! The Chantry and the Dalish are tied.
Except, oh wait, no they aren't. The Dalish system still exists. The Chantry system has dissolved into open warfare. 

It is a good track record actually. The Circles manage to contain abominations for almost 1000 years.
The Clans? Not so much.

The Chantry controlled Circles seemed to cause abominations, rather than prevent them.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Two clans lost by the actions of their Keepers. With each clan containing their people and lore, the loss of each clan is a big blow to the Dalish. Loss of a cirlce? Not a big loss. Some templars and mages die, but the people are safe. 

How is it a "big blow" when we don't know how many Dalish clans currently reside in Thedas?

[Lotion Soronarr]

No. Templars don't go around hunting entire clans.
When a dalish clan dissapears, you can bet it's somethin that can take on an eniter clan. Like an abomination. Or a blood mage curse. Or a dragon.


Also, it's a big blow becuase the dalish as so nomadic and their lore is fractured. Clans gather lost knowledge. Clans hold their craftsmen, their children, their people.
Loosing a clan is not a small deal.

The Cirlce only holds some mages and templars.

[LobselVith8]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

No. Templars don't go around hunting entire clans.
When a dalish clan dissapears, you can bet it's somethin that can take on an eniter clan. Like an abomination. Or a blood mage curse. Or a dragon.

Merrill explicitly says the clans are hunted by templars, and provides this as the reason they move across Thedas; she even says their mages don't exhibit their abilities in public because of this.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Also, it's a big blow becuase the dalish as so nomadic and their lore is fractured. Clans gather lost knowledge. Clans hold their craftsmen, their children, their people.
Loosing a clan is not a small deal.

The Cirlce only holds some mages and templars.

The clans are known to share their lore during the Arlathvhen.

[BlueMagitek]

Most of the lore is likely nonsense, if Zathy is anything to go by.

[LobselVith8]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Most of the lore is likely nonsense, if Zathy is anything to go by.

Zathrian doesn't prove or disprove the elven lore. Also, Merrill was building an Eluvian based on lore she gathered about the Eluvians, and Morrigan activated an Eluvian with an elven book.

[BlueMagitek]

Is Zathy not held as an example of Dalish longevity? There seems to be quite a bit of misinformation going around.

[LobselVith8]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Is Zathy not held as an example of Dalish longevity? There seems to be quite a bit of misinformation going around.

So is Ilen, his father (who fought the Clayne centuries ago), and other Dalish elves, as Gaider mentioned that they seemed to live longer the more generations they lived away from humans.

[BlueMagitek]

You completely missed the point.

If Zathy is held as an example of the supposed long lifespan of the Dalish, then this is a falsity that is perpetuated (if not actively, then by lack of denial). Unless you're telling me that despite being a Keeper for 300+ years, there was not a Lore Share or two or 30 during his reign.

[Medhia Nox]

I will be tragically bored to tears if the elves turn out to be as they appear.

Now - if they reveal that elven longevity was due to massive slaughter pits of humans and a huge blood magic ritual performed every morning... and that Arlathan was crushed by a human revolution and Tevinter built on its bones.... and those tattoos are the last remnants of elven blood magic.

The elven gods - revered as the old gods by Tevinter - were tricked by the Maker into revealing magic to humans to allow them to crush the elves for turning Arlathan "black" with their debauchery - and then promptly imprisoned.

The ensuing revolution saw Arlathan sucked into the Fade forever - the elves mortal and lame - and the birth of the Tevinter Imperium.

Then I'll find DA elves at least a little interesting.

[In Exile]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Well, while it's not in regards to just regular clan life, it does happen at the Arlathvhens (since we see non-Mage hahren in-game).

Well, it's proof that the elders can voice their concerns, and we're assuming that elders include Keepers, but I don't think that this is right.  It's a "private council" and the codex says they "work in tandem but defer to" the Keeper, which can mean quite a lot of things, including that they are a subordinate assistant. In either case, "Keeper" and "hahren" are separate ranks, and if we're dealing with a "hahren" only council, we have to assume that Keepers are not present.

The codex on "hahren" references the Alienages, but assuming that it's accurate and there can be more than one "hahren" of a clan (the original codex cited below is ambiguous on this point), we can say that multiple members of a clan that aren't Keepers voice their concerns. 

However, there are reasons to be skeptical that "hahren" includes Keeper. According to the DA wiki, the hahren in a Dalish clain "is primarily a storyteller and caretaker of children". The codex is rather clear that in the alienages the term takes on a specific, formal connotation as well " and indicates that these functions include administration and surrogate parenthood.  But the distinction between Alienage and Dalish suggests that the function is not administrative, only advisory, in the clans. 

edit: Another problem is the idea that this is an "open" forum for non-mages to voice their concerns. We know that the hahren works with and defers to the Keeper. The "private" meeting is hahren only. It seems a stretch to argue that this is really a chance to openly voice a concern, any more than a meeting of the security council would constitute a chance for the citizens of the nation state to openly voice their concerns. 

The original codex is below: 

In Arlathvhen, it is common for all the hahren to hold a private council while their respective clans are still settling in. These meetings inevitably last well into the next day and end with furious shouting, such that many say that the true reason the clans all go their separate ways is that no two hahren can stand each other.

Zathrian is nothing at all like Keeper Marethari, but this is to be expected. He is older, more severe, and his clan is facing a much more terrible enemy than the usual shemlen that plague other clans.[/i]

Modifié par In Exile, 04 juillet 2013 - 03:24 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

LobselVith8 wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

Is Zathy not held as an example of Dalish longevity? There seems to be quite a bit of misinformation going around.

So is Ilen, his father (who fought the Clayne centuries ago), and other Dalish elves, as Gaider mentioned that they seemed to live longer the more generations they lived away from humans.

Wasn't blood magic the reason Zathy lived so long?
The curse is what kept him alive. When he broke the curse (something that brought nothing but pain and suffering...and  blood magic is more potent with more pain and suffering), he died.

[LobselVith8]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

Is Zathy not held as an example of Dalish longevity? There seems to be quite a bit of misinformation going around.

So is Ilen, his father (who fought the Clayne centuries ago), and other Dalish elves, as Gaider mentioned that they seemed to live longer the more generations they lived away from humans.

Wasn't blood magic the reason Zathy lived so long?

Which doesn't mean anything when there are other Dalish elves who are also long-lived. As Gaider pointed out:

"City elves have the same lifespans as humans. They call them shemlen because it's an ancient word... occasionally city elves will use some words that are elven without really understanding where they really come from. So it's a derogatory term, and that's all it is to them when they say shem, the short version, they call humans that even though the reasons for that word no longer exist. Dalish tend to live longer. We're not talking into Tolkienesque numbers of years here. The longer they've stayed away and their parents have stayed away from humanity, the longer they seem to live. There are exceptional individuals among them as well, Zathrian had lived for almost three hundred years. It's going to vary but for the city elves, the elves that live inside human cities, they don't have exceptional lifespans at all."

Note: Emphasis mine.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

The curse is what kept him alive. When he broke the curse (something that brought nothing but pain and suffering...and  blood magic is more potent with more pain and suffering), he died. 

Which, again, doesn't negate the other examples of Dalish elves who have lived long lives, like Master Ilen, his father (who fought the Clayne), or the other unnamed Dalish elves who are referenced by some members of Zathrian's clan or by Gaider's interview.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Of course you're ignoring that Mary Kirby said that Dalish elves don't live longer than city elves.

[Xilizhra]

Of course you're ignoring that Mary Kirby said that Dalish elves don't live longer than city elves.

Did she say that city elves don't live longer than humans?

[LobselVith8]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Of course you're ignoring that Mary Kirby said that Dalish elves don't live longer than city elves.

Because Kirby contradicted two games and another developer when she made that comment.