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[garrusfan1]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Should we ignore Kirby's comments about the dalish because of a single (and somewhat vaguer) comment from Gaider?

If we both have dev comments to back up a position, why should one automatically cancel the other?

I'll admit it's confusing, but Kirby's post is more recent. One could make a case that gives it more weight when speaking to the writers' intention. I don't think it should just be dismissed out of hand any more than Gaiders'.

well the dalish in DAO say dalish live longer then normal elves. and I am not talking about the keeper that was ancient he was not normal

[In Exile]

garrusfan1 wrote...
well the dalish in DAO say dalish live longer then normal elves. and I am not talking about the keeper that was ancient he was not normal

Every Chanter you meet also says the Maker is real, but that doesn't mean that it's true. 

[Mothalickaz]

I will side with the Tevinter Imperrium.(I don't know how to spell that...)

I always side with the mages, the templars remind me of a really bad government, or my government(USA). They lie and kill and claim that it is best for their "country"(Or city)and their people, when in reality, all they are doing is making things worse off by poking at the mages constantly.

People mentioned they side with the templars because the mages relied on blood magic, but can you blame them? What would you do, if you HAD to stay in a SINGLE tower for the rest of your life, and if you ever left, you were hunted and given a scum title like apostate? It is no secret that blood magic is obviously the most powerful of all magic in thedas, it is the sole reason the chantry exists, because mages rely on blood magic for ultimate power, and the templars have to protect the people from these blood mages.

Mages I feel are like dogs, they are fine until you back them into a corner, and then BOOM! The roof goes off the place. I learned to appreciate the mages more after spending a lot of time with morrigan and anders(and of course being a mage myself). I feel mages aren't given the proper chance to redeem themselves. The chantry doesn't trust mages because of whats happened with mages in the past, and now the mages of today have to put up with the punishment without even showing the chantry that they can live normal on the surface and not stuck within the circle tower.

It's true, there are just as many evil mages as there are templars, but I am going to side with the mages since they have done more good for thedas than the templars have.(or did anyone forget about the blood mage who saved arl eamons son from being possessed by a demon? I mean I still sentenced him to death, but I mean come on,)

Thedas needs mages, they do not need templars, Mages can heal life with a single touch, they can banish demons, even duncan said that a mage is priority when it comes to the blight. You don't see any templars fighting the blight unless you put a gun up their ass and force them too.

But anyway, that's who I am siding with. If I could pick an option that is NOT available, I would side with either the Tevinter or Qunari. Out of those, probablly the Tevinter since i'm big on the whole mage thing.

[Mothalickaz]

I will side with the Tevinter Imperrium.(I don't know how to spell that...)

I always side with the mages, the templars remind me of a really bad government, or my government(USA). They lie and kill and claim that it is best for their "country"(Or city)and their people, when in reality, all they are doing is making things worse off by poking at the mages constantly.

People mentioned they side with the templars because the mages relied on blood magic, but can you blame them? What would you do, if you HAD to stay in a SINGLE tower for the rest of your life, and if you ever left, you were hunted and given a scum title like apostate? It is no secret that blood magic is obviously the most powerful of all magic in thedas, it is the sole reason the chantry exists, because mages rely on blood magic for ultimate power, and the templars have to protect the people from these blood mages.

Mages I feel are like dogs, they are fine until you back them into a corner, and then BOOM! The roof goes off the place. I learned to appreciate the mages more after spending a lot of time with morrigan and anders(and of course being a mage myself). I feel mages aren't given the proper chance to redeem themselves. The chantry doesn't trust mages because of whats happened with mages in the past, and now the mages of today have to put up with the punishment without even showing the chantry that they can live normal on the surface and not stuck within the circle tower.

It's true, there are just as many evil mages as there are templars, but I am going to side with the mages since they have done more good for thedas than the templars have.(or did anyone forget about the blood mage who saved arl eamons son from being possessed by a demon? I mean I still sentenced him to death, but I mean come on,)

Thedas needs mages, they do not need templars, Mages can heal life with a single touch, they can banish demons, even duncan said that a mage is priority when it comes to the blight. You don't see any templars fighting the blight unless you put a gun up their ass and force them too.

But anyway, that's who I am siding with. If I could pick an option that is NOT available, I would side with either the Tevinter or Qunari. Out of those, probablly the Tevinter since i'm big on the whole mage thing.

[Nightdragon8]

Mothalickaz wrote...

I will side with the Tevinter Imperrium.(I don't know how to spell that...)

I always side with the mages, the templars remind me of a really bad government, or my government(USA). They lie and kill and claim that it is best for their "country"(Or city)and their people, when in reality, all they are doing is making things worse off by poking at the mages constantly.
.

.... so slavers and mages using blood magic and sacerficing elves is prefectly fine....

as for the "Government" stuff honestly, ALL governments lie and claim what they are doing is for the best for the people.

[elyu]

I always support the mages even if they use blood magic but not if there's a possibility to lose a companion (whom I like) permanently. For example, I let the blood mage in the circle tower live but killed Danarius.

I'm kinda hoping that the grey wardens would become allies to the mages, too.

[TheKomandorShepard]

I will never understand peoples who are against templars but support tevinter (unless their philosophy is stronger will survive) for me both they are di*** made by two different corupted cultures i support freedom for everyone and both tevinter and templars are opposites freedom.On on side we have templars fanatics consumed by hate and fear not only towards mages on other we have tevinter where racial problems are much smaller but they are consumed by greed like orlesians but whitout racism.

[RepHope]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

I will never understand peoples who are against templars but support tevinter (unless their philosophy is stronger will survive) for me both they are di*** made by two different corupted cultures i support freedom for everyone and both tevinter and templars are opposites freedom.On on side we have templars fanatics consumed by hate and fear not only towards mages on other we have tevinter where racial problems are much smaller but they are consumed by greed like orlesians but whitout racism.

Did you miss the part where Tevinter uses elven slaves, and non-mages are looked upon as less than human?... And I'm pretty sure they're racist against qunari

Edit: in reply to the claim that Tevinter isn't racist

Modifié par RepHope, 07 juillet 2013 - 03:44 .

[RepHope]

I hope we can let both groups just kill each other off neither seems worth saving to me

[TheKomandorShepard]

RepHope wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

I will never understand peoples who are against templars but support tevinter (unless their philosophy is stronger will survive) for me both they are di*** made by two different corupted cultures i support freedom for everyone and both tevinter and templars are opposites freedom.On on side we have templars fanatics consumed by hate and fear not only towards mages on other we have tevinter where racial problems are much smaller but they are consumed by greed like orlesians but whitout racism.

Did you miss the part where Tevinter uses elven slaves, and non-mages are looked upon as less than human?... And I'm pretty sure they're racist against qunari

Edit: in reply to the claim that Tevinter isn't racist

Tevinter uses all races as slaves (even mages) so you missing point they are greedy they do not use elves as slaves because they are elves only for money as they do with others , in ferelden alienage they capture elves because that was opportunity no one care about them in Andrastian society so it was easy profit , but we can see that elf from tevinter command others which in andrastian society it is almost impossible due to racism she even loyal to tevinter.  

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 07 juillet 2013 - 04:29 .

[LogicGunn]

Mages. "Some of them might do something bad" is never a reason to discriminate against and condemn a group of people. There is no justification for what the Chantry, Templars and common people do to the Mages. Punishing the innocent to punish the bad guys is immoral and never works. It just makes the bad ones more resourceful.

[MadCat221]

Pro-Mage.

It is unfair to blame Mages for the creation of the Darkspawn. I think it'd be more accurate to lay blame at Tevinter instead.

And where do you think Orlais (because anyone who thinks the Chantry isn't an extension of Orlais's power is self-delusional) learned its cultural hubris from? The only difference between Tevinter's and Orlais's elite is that those in Orlais don't have magic. They're both high and haughty, care nothing for the lower rungs of their society, consider those of other nations as rubes (Orlais's opinion of Ferelden, Tevinter's opinion of everyone), and are playing a deadly courtly game.

Time for the pendulum to find its centerpoint.

Also, Pro-Mage does NOT mean Libertarian.

Modifié par MadCat221, 07 juillet 2013 - 05:04 .

[Raging_Pulse]

Neutral.

I am going to push neutrality agenda as hard and for as long the game possibly let me.

[BouncyFrag]

I'm hoping we get more depth on both sides. By the end of DA2 I disliked the Templars the least. That said, I'd be delighted if the whole mage/templar mess is overshadowed by an incredible single player campaign about something else.

[AtreiyaN7]

At this point I'll stick to siding with the mages because their ability to control fire will result in instant smores any time that I want them.

[Bardox9]

DA2s impression of the Templars and Mages was tainted from the start. Meredith was warped by the idol and according to "The Enigma of Kirkwall" there is some ancient evil under the city twisting the mages.

In DA:O I side with the mages in "Broken Circle" simply because the Templars are wrong to try and kill everyone. In DA2 there is no "right" side. Templars are too extreme in their measures and the mages constantly succumb to demons and the evils of blood magic. I see nothing wrong with blood magic itself as long as you are using your own blood, but when you start slaughtering people for a power boost you need to die. Orsino is protect these mages and earning every harsh punishment Meredith dishes out.

I prefer the Ferelden version of the circle. IMO that is the way it is suppose to work. The templars, in my view, are meant to protect the mages as much as they are to protect others from the mages. The are not meant to be jailors. Mages are at constant risk of demons and the bigotry of the masses. They must be defended. Sometimes from themselves as is evident by Kirkwall.

If a mage is too weak to resist the allure of the evils of magic and demons then they should be made Tranquil or be put to the sword. It is the job of the First Enchanter to train a mage in the proper use of their powers and prepare them to resist temptation. Should he/she fail at this task it is the Templars duty to neutralize the threat. When these two do not work together you get The Gallows.

In DA:O the the rite of annulment was not necessary, but in DA2 (given the number of maleficarum and abominations constantly pouring out of the circle) it was the right call. At this point it is hard to say which side to support in DA:I. Until we see what the situation is, it's up in the air as far as I'm concerned. Abominations must be killed. Maleficarum must be made Tranquil or die. Apostates must be brought back to the circle. Templars who hold nothing but spite for mages are not fit to carry the shield. Greagoir is what a Templar should be. Meredith is what a Templar shouldn't be. Irving is what a First Enchanter should be. Orsino is what a First Enchanter shouldn't be.

I support The Circle of Magi. The Chantry can burn for all I care. Whether I support the Mages or Templars depends on what this blighted war has done to them. We shall see...

Modifié par Bardox9, 07 juillet 2013 - 07:17 .

[CitizenThom]

Based on the mages in DA2 and Anders? I'm with the Templars. Meredith was just another abomination after all.

p.s. I agree with the above poster... the mage / templar dynamic in DA:O is a less caricatured and more interesting dynamic than the one in DA2. In DA:O it's be a coin flip, I tended not to want all the mages executed after clearing the tower, although had even a second incident occurred at the tower in DA:O, it would be time to clean house.

Modifié par CitizenThom, 07 juillet 2013 - 07:31 .

[dorianpervus]

Which ever one seems like the most logical option. In DA2 my main sided with the Templar's, since afterwards you become the Viscount of Kirkwall and ultimately can make bigger decisions with that role. If siding with the Templar's means going back to the way things were then I'm going with the mages. But I have a feeling we may be able to pick a middle ground between the Templar's and the mages.

[MadCat221]

If Neutrality means "I am not getting involved", then I will have to side with the Mages.

If Neutrality means proverbially grabbing both sides by the neck, smearing their face into the monitor, and saying "SEE THIS S*&#$? STOP THIS S@&#$.", then I would like to be Neutral.

[garrusfan1]

In Exile wrote...

garrusfan1 wrote...
well the dalish in DAO say dalish live longer then normal elves. and I am not talking about the keeper that was ancient he was not normal

Every Chanter you meet also says the Maker is real, but that doesn't mean that it's true. 

really that is your argument. someone talking about life expectancy and someone talking about religion are very very different things. It is accepted by most that the elves were originally immortal (they couldn't die of old age) but that changed. the dalish don't say they live longer then they used to but not for a long time like zatherin did (he only lived because of the curse). anyways your argument is pathetic

[In Exile]

garrusfan1 wrote...
really that is your argument. someone talking about life expectancy and someone talking about religion are very very different things. It is accepted by most that the elves were originally immortal (they couldn't die of old age) but that changed. the dalish don't say they live longer then they used to but not for a long time like zatherin did (he only lived because of the curse). anyways your argument is pathetic

It's accepted by all Andrastians that the Maker is real, and that the Maker left. The preponderance of belief, in the absence of any actual evidence, isn't an argument. 

There's certainly a difference between life expectancy and religion, but there's no difference between a complete lack of evidence for one thing, and a complete lack of evidence for another thing. 

[garrusfan1]

LikesThingsHatesStuff wrote...

Which ever one seems like the most logical option. In DA2 my main sided with the Templar's, since afterwards you become the Viscount of Kirkwall and ultimately can make bigger decisions with that role. If siding with the Templar's means going back to the way things were then I'm going with the mages. But I have a feeling we may be able to pick a middle ground between the Templar's and the mages.

I do side with them sometimes when I am a mage (I can't side against Bethany) only because nothing really changes and I get to be viscount. I think mages were right since they did nothing wrong and were being blamed for what anders did.

[garrusfan1]

In Exile wrote...

garrusfan1 wrote...
really that is your argument. someone talking about life expectancy and someone talking about religion are very very different things. It is accepted by most that the elves were originally immortal (they couldn't die of old age) but that changed. the dalish don't say they live longer then they used to but not for a long time like zatherin did (he only lived because of the curse). anyways your argument is pathetic

It's accepted by all Andrastians that the Maker is real, and that the Maker left. The preponderance of belief, in the absence of any actual evidence, isn't an argument. 

There's certainly a difference between life expectancy and religion, but there's no difference between a complete lack of evidence for one thing, and a complete lack of evidence for another thing. 

uh given the evidence we are given by the games it means yes there is evidence

[In Exile]

garrusfan1 wrote...
uh given the evidence we are given by the games it means yes there is evidence

We're not given any evidence other than the elves saying "dude, trust us, totally immortal back in the day". The only elf we see that's supposedly ancient used blood magic to do it. The only other thing any poster can give us is a throwaway line from the DA:O Dalish origin, and we can easily explain that as bad writing, because there's a DA:O dwarf quest that if you play straight implies dwarves live an average of 200 or so years. 

[Medhia Nox]

@In Exile: There's an ancient immortal elf that supports my "all elves gained immortality through blood magic" theory?

Who?