1799 réponses à ce sujet

[Nynaeve1981]

I don't know. They did try and so now her guards should be more careful. Plus, she has Leliana watching her back. Im curious to see what Flemeth is up to. She has been making everyone dance to her tune And in the game trailer Morrigans(if it was really Morrigan) voice sounded like an old lady. She's not that old.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Nynaeve1981 wrote...

I don't know. They did try and so now her guards should be more careful. Plus, she has Leliana watching her back. Im curious to see what Flemeth is up to. She has been making everyone dance to her tune And in the game trailer Morrigans(if it was really Morrigan) voice sounded like an old lady. She's not that old.

Morigan was in her mid twenties, maybe late twenties in DA:O. Ten years (at least) have passed since DA:O, so Morrigan is getting older. And it still sounded like Morrigan, but older, which makes sense, with the point i just made.

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 12 juillet 2013 - 04:02 .

[cjones91]

I actually hope Morrigan becomes one of the chess masters that is using the war to further her own agenda.

[Nynaeve1981]

So she would be in her mid to late 30s she just shouldn't be sounding that old. Maybe its just me but her voice was cracking. Yeah I think she's manipulating things like Flemeth. That's if Flemeth hasn't possessed her or whatever she does to her daughters.

[Lotion Soronarr]

cjones91 wrote...

They have done alot of terrible things like destroy Andraste's allies and IMO twisted what she said about magic to gain total control of mages.They then use there power to destroy any other religion and forcibly convert people out of some belief that their religion is the only correct one to follow.

The Chantry is the cause of everything from templars abusing their power
over mages from mages then fighting back-almost everything that has
happened can be traced back to them.

https://i.chzbgr.com...0432/hDF8A2B39/

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 12 juillet 2013 - 05:57 .

[cjones91]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

They have done alot of terrible things like destroy Andraste's allies and IMO twisted what she said about magic to gain total control of mages.They then use there power to destroy any other religion and forcibly convert people out of some belief that their religion is the only correct one to follow.

The Chantry is the cause of everything from templars abusing their power
over mages from mages then fighting back-almost everything that has
happened can be traced back to them.

https://i.chzbgr.com...0432/hDF8A2B39/

How is it bullsh*t?What do you call forcing a entire people into living as second class citizens simply because they refused to follow your religion?That's the whole point of forced conversion and the Chantry is no different from the Qun when it comes to destroying cultures and replacing them with their own.

Also I did say it was my opinion that the Chantry twisted Andraste's teachings in order to serve their own agenda,but it's supported by facts that they did betray the elves regardless of who started the fight over the Dales.
 
The Chantry's near 1000 years of anti magic brainwashing is clearly the culprit of why the templars and mages are now fighting each other,it's like a racist teaching people to be racists and then acting surprised when a hate crime happens.

Modifié par cjones91, 12 juillet 2013 - 06:12 .

[Jedi Master of Orion]

You can't "betray" the elves if they started the war. The elves sacked the captial of Orlais. The Orlesians fought back, maybe too far but it's hardly a betrayal when the elves' armies were carving up peices of Orlais before the Exalted March was even called.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 12 juillet 2013 - 06:23 .

[cjones91]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

You can't "betray" the elves if they started the war.

Like the old saying goes "History is written by the victors".The Chantry had every reason to demonize the elves in that conflict because it makes them look good,however we can never truly know who started the war so it's a case of both sides pointing the finger at each other.

Also the Dalish may have been d*cks but does that warrant destroying their entire culture and treating the rest of the elves worse than scum?Orlais would have invaded the Dales regardless if the Dalish provoked them or not because it was just a matter of time before Emperor Drakon set his sights on conquering the Dales.

Some might say he had the perfect excuse while others would argue the Dalish simply struck first against a empire they feared would conquer them.

Modifié par cjones91, 12 juillet 2013 - 06:34 .

[Jedi Master of Orion]

By the same token the Dalish have every reason to demonize the humans, though that's beside the point. My point is you said "they did betray the elves regardless of who started the war of the Dales" when you can't betray someone who attacked you. They were no longer allies by then. The Chantry itself didn't become involved in the war until the elves were closing in on Val Royeaux, so even then it wasn't involved in starting the war.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 12 juillet 2013 - 06:32 .

[cjones91]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

By the same token the Dalish have every reason to demonize the humans, though that's beside the point. My point is you said "they did betray the elves regardless of who started the war of the Dales" when you can't betray someone who attacked you. They were no longer allies by then. The Chantry itself didn't become involved in the war until the elves were closing in on Val Royeaux, so even then it wasn't involved in starting the war.

But whose to say Orlais would'nt have invaded the Dales at a later time after the Second Blight?Like I said before we don't know what caused the Dalish to attack Montsimmard so putting all the blame on them is pointless.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Who's to say they would have? Are you arguing that the elves should have attacked Orlais because of what they might do in the future, but the Orlesians weren't justified in fighting back? You say asigning blame to the elves is pointless but You seem determined to place the blame on the humans.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 12 juillet 2013 - 06:45 .

[cjones91]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Who's to say they would have? Are you arguing that the elves should have attacked Orlais because of what they might do in the future? You seem determined to place the blame on the humans.

I'm not placing blame on either side until we know for certain who started the war.Orlais has a history of offering "help" to countries affected by Blights and then slowing taking them over afterwards, so the Dales might have thought Emperor Drakon may attack them for allegedly refusing to help during the Second Blight.

[Lotion Soronarr]

cjones91 wrote...
How is it bullsh*t?What do you call forcing a entire people into living as second class citizens simply because they refused to follow your religion?That's the whole point of forced conversion and the Chantry is no different from the Qun when it comes to destroying cultures and replacing them with their own.

Second class citizenship? The Chantry didn't force anything.
In fact, it protected the elves by demanding that the nations give them shelter - hence Alianages.

Also I did say it was my opinion that the Chantry twisted Andraste's teachings in order to serve their own agenda,but it's supported by facts that they did betray the elves regardless of who started the fight over the Dales.

Betrayed?
Who betrayed whom there?
 
Alos, Orlais and the Chantry are not the same thing.

The Chantry's near 1000 years of anti magic brainwashing is clearly the culprit of why the templars and mages are now fighting each other,it's like a racist teaching people to be racists and then acting surprised when a hate crime happens.

There is no anti-magic brainwashing really.
You insist that people only fear mages becuase the Chantry sez so. That is 100% false.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 12 juillet 2013 - 07:22 .

[cjones91]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

cjones91 wrote...
How is it bullsh*t?What do you call forcing a entire people into living as second class citizens simply because they refused to follow your religion?That's the whole point of forced conversion and the Chantry is no different from the Qun when it comes to destroying cultures and replacing them with their own.

Second class citizenship? The Chantry didn't force anything.
In fact, it protected the elves by demanding that the nations give them shelter - hence Alianages.

Also I did say it was my opinion that the Chantry twisted Andraste's teachings in order to serve their own agenda,but it's supported by facts that they did betray the elves regardless of who started the fight over the Dales.

Betrayed?
Who betrayed whom there?
 

The Chantry's near 1000 years of anti magic brainwashing is clearly the culprit of why the templars and mages are now fighting each other,it's like a racist teaching people to be racists and then acting surprised when a hate crime happens.

There is no anti-magic brainwashing really.
You insist that people only fear mages becuase the Chantry sez so. That is 100% false.

I think saying mages are a curse and forbiding all the the useful types of magic from being used by the populace constitutes as anti magic brain washing.Hell people in Thedas think all magic is evil even healing magic that could save countless lives if the Chantry actually allowed it. 

The Chantry has everything to gain keeping people afraid since they maintain a monopoly on magic.

As for the Alienages the elves are treated worse than anything,their women can be raped and killed while nobody does anything to punish those responsible.Even the city guard takes part in it as shown during the City Elf Origin.

Modifié par cjones91, 12 juillet 2013 - 07:43 .

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Kordillus Drakon had been dead for 75 years by the time the Dales fell, but even assuming what you said is true, attacking Orlais just kind of proves the humans' fears about the elves true.

Also the Chantry isn't in charge of the alienages. The state of the elves today is the responsibility of the secular rulers of the nations of Thedas.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 12 juillet 2013 - 08:30 .

[garrusfan1]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

They have done alot of terrible things like destroy Andraste's allies and IMO twisted what she said about magic to gain total control of mages.They then use there power to destroy any other religion and forcibly convert people out of some belief that their religion is the only correct one to follow.

The Chantry is the cause of everything from templars abusing their power
over mages from mages then fighting back-almost everything that has
happened can be traced back to them.

https://i.chzbgr.com...0432/hDF8A2B39/

he is just hardcore anti religion. anti magic is because of tevinter and people who don't understand things will fear it (a lot of people not all)

[TTTX]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
 
Alos, Orlais and the Chantry are not the same thing.

No, but Orlais and the Chantry are somewhat close in their relationship. Because it was there the Chantry got founded and has it's headquarters.

Also Orlais have gotten help from the Chantry in the past as seen in KirkWall when the Viscount before Dumar demanded extra taxes from Orlaisiens ships, they cried out to the Chantry who then used the Templars to force the Viscount to stop that this almost got the Templars thrown out of Kirkwall.

There is also that little fact the Chantry sent Templars along the border to the Dales. That pretty much triggered the war between Orlais and the Dales. Both Orlais and the Chantry gained much by destroying the Dales, Orlais gain land while the Chantry proved itself against the heathens and it was the superior religion gaining more influence in other countries.

But I get the feeling Orlais at the very least goaded the Dales into going to war after all Orlais has a very long record of making excuses in order to invade another country, not to mention history is written by the victories and that were the Chantry and Orlais.

Modifié par TTTX, 12 juillet 2013 - 09:03 .

[garrusfan1]

ah the chantry didn't start the elf hating and people thinking of them as less then humans. tevinter has had elven slaves long before the chantry and many humans always felt that. you can say the chantry made some people hate mages but you cannont blame the chantry for the elves lives. and they started that war by destroying the chantry they built in the dales

[garrusfan1]

TTTX wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
 
Alos, Orlais and the Chantry are not the same thing.

No, but Orlais and the Chantry are somewhat close in their relationship. Because it was there the Chantry got founded and has it's headquarters.

Also Orlais have gotten help from the Chantry in the past as seen in KirkWall when the Viscount before Dumar demanded extra taxes from Orlaisiens ships, they cried out to the Chantry who then used the Templars to force the Viscount to stop that this almost got the Templars thrown out of Kirkwall.

There is also that little fact the Chantry sent Templars along the border to the Dales. That pretty much triggered the war between Orlais and the Dales. Both Orlais and the Chantry gained much by destroying the Dales, Orlais gain land while the Chantry proved itself against the heathens and it was the superior religion gaining more influence in other countries.

But I get the feeling Orlais at the very least goaded the Dales into going to war after all Orlais has a very long record of making excuses in order to invade another country, not to mention history is written by the victories and that were the Chantry and Orlais.

orlais may house the chantry but doesn't mean they are the same. orlais is a very very rich country and thus have a lot of power that is why they can do what they do. they are the most powerful nation of any country that worships andraste and the white divine. only tevinter and the qunari are more powerful

[cjones91]

garrusfan1 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

They have done alot of terrible things like destroy Andraste's allies and IMO twisted what she said about magic to gain total control of mages.They then use there power to destroy any other religion and forcibly convert people out of some belief that their religion is the only correct one to follow.

The Chantry is the cause of everything from templars abusing their power
over mages from mages then fighting back-almost everything that has
happened can be traced back to them.

https://i.chzbgr.com...0432/hDF8A2B39/

he is just hardcore anti religion. anti magic is because of tevinter and people who don't understand things will fear it (a lot of people not all)

Actually I'm not anti religion.

[cjones91]

garrusfan1 wrote...

TTTX wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
 
Alos, Orlais and the Chantry are not the same thing.

No, but Orlais and the Chantry are somewhat close in their relationship. Because it was there the Chantry got founded and has it's headquarters.

Also Orlais have gotten help from the Chantry in the past as seen in KirkWall when the Viscount before Dumar demanded extra taxes from Orlaisiens ships, they cried out to the Chantry who then used the Templars to force the Viscount to stop that this almost got the Templars thrown out of Kirkwall.

There is also that little fact the Chantry sent Templars along the border to the Dales. That pretty much triggered the war between Orlais and the Dales. Both Orlais and the Chantry gained much by destroying the Dales, Orlais gain land while the Chantry proved itself against the heathens and it was the superior religion gaining more influence in other countries.

But I get the feeling Orlais at the very least goaded the Dales into going to war after all Orlais has a very long record of making excuses in order to invade another country, not to mention history is written by the victories and that were the Chantry and Orlais.

orlais may house the chantry but doesn't mean they are the same. orlais is a very very rich country and thus have a lot of power that is why they can do what they do. they are the most powerful nation of any country that worships andraste and the white divine. only tevinter and the qunari are more powerful

Orlais and the Chantry are so intertwined that several people including Marric and Loghain had thought of kicking them both out when Orlais left Fereldan.

[cjones91]

garrusfan1 wrote...

ah the chantry didn't start the elf hating and people thinking of them as less then humans. tevinter has had elven slaves long before the chantry and many humans always felt that. you can say the chantry made some people hate mages but you cannont blame the chantry for the elves lives. and they started that war by destroying the chantry they built in the dales

 The elves refused to have a chantry built in the Dales and we don't fully know whose fault it is.

[TTTX]

garrusfan1 wrote...
orlais may house the chantry but doesn't mean they are the same. orlais is a very very rich country and thus have a lot of power that is why they can do what they do. they are the most powerful nation of any country that worships andraste and the white divine. only tevinter and the qunari are more powerful

I didn't say they were they same, all I did say the Chantry and Orlais was closer then the rest of Thedas is to the Chantry. Which is understandble considering their history and the location of the headquarter of the Chantry.

[Lotion Soronarr]

cjones91 wrote...
I think saying mages are a curse and forbiding all the the useful types of magic from being used by the populace constitutes as anti magic brain washing.

Erm...no. The line is "Magic (not mages) is a GIFT and a CURSE" and that line is 100% correct, becuae magic is a double-edged blade with some really crapy downsides.

Hell people in Thedas think all magic is evil even healing magic that could save countless lives if the Chantry actually allowed it.

I don't recall Chantry dissalowing it.

Eihter way, people will have their own oppinions on magic, and magic is something mundanes will never uinderstand - hell, mages don't really understand it either.

As for the Alienages the elves are treated worse than anything,their women can be raped and killed while nobody does anything to punish those responsible.Even the city guard takes part in it as shown during the City Elf Origin.

That's the problem with the local leadership and people, not the Chantry. The Chantry isn't running the Alianages.

As we've sen in the City Elf opening, the chantry mother was there and attempted to stop Vaughn.