1799 réponses à ce sujet

[EmperorSahlertz]

cjones91 wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

This makes me wish some unknown land(and there are unexplored lands beyond Thedas) who actually embraced and harness magic came in and curbstomped the Chantry controlled lands of Thedas.Thedas is stagnant because the Chantry keeps the people fearful when they should be using magic to create things that could not be rivaled.

But just like the Dark Ages in real life the Chantry willfully and intentionally keeps the people of Thedas ignorant and stifles any attempts of using magic to improve the lives of everyone.

Ugh all that situation would lead to is Andraste/Chantry 2.0. The Qunari are more anti mage than the Chantry yet they're more technologically/medically advanced than Tevinter, and Orzammar too. Even without the Chantry's restrictions on magic, it's applications or advances would only benefit a select minority versus technological innovations that can be used by anyone.

The one known area of study the Chantry hindered is medical research, due to the ban on cadavers.

I slightly disagree with the assumption that technology that was created with magic would only benefit a minority.Even if it did atleast everyone would have access to it like for example if someone wanted to buy medicine that was made from magic then they could do so.Mages would have assigned jobs like using fire for smithing,cooking and lighting torches.

Spirit healers and any mage that know basic healing magic can open up their own clinics in towns the people could benefit from(just imagine how much the lives of the common people in Thedas would be improved if spirit healers were able to use their talents without being demonized by a group that is completely ignorant of the differences between demons and spirits.)

I highly doubt all of the unexplored lands are like the Qunari because there may be some who have blended magic and technology together and use both for everyday life,

You can already buy items crafted by mages.... What you don't have free acces to currently, is actual magic being cast on you. And even that isn't entirely correct, since obviously the CIrcles allow for people to recieve treatment from mages. The only thing you have to do on your own, is actually travel to the Circle.

[cjones91]

Morocco Mole wrote...

Mages can do it much easier though

True,but there are people like Vaugh who could stroll into a alienage, kidnap the women there,rape them and no one gives a ****.What's worse is the city guard could join in on it and drag the women kicking and screaming through the streets while no one does anything to stop them.

The point is nobles can and do get away with murder,treason,rape,torture,conspiracy,and a whole bunch of other crimes simply because they are noble blood.

[TheKomandorShepard]

cjones91 wrote...

stonemyst wrote...

Well only a mage has the power of choice to burn down a whole city or force people to do there will with blood magic. I would have to be on Templar side unless all had magic they could do.

 A person with a torch can set a village on fire if he/she is lucky,nobles can do whatever they want to city elves and rape their women.Everybody is capable of doing depraved acts so mages aren't special in that regard.

Yey now i renember old good times when my chaotic evil character use torch to burn city watch post and guard stops me with torch in hand and accuse me that i do that then  i choose dialogue option "i don't even have a torch"

Morocco Mole wrote...

Mages can do it much easier though

I tell what sten often says "comparing to what?" ,one can do that easily other not leliana or zevran could do that easily even do that better.   

[EmperorSahlertz]

cjones91 wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

Mages can do it much easier though

True,but there are people like Vaugh who could stroll into a alienage, kidnap the women there,rape them and no one gives a ****.What's worse is the city guard could join in on it and drag the women kicking and screaming through the streets while no one does anything to stop them.

The point is nobles can and do get away with murder,treason,rape,torture,conspiracy,and a whole bunch of other crimes simply because they are noble blood.

Indeed they can. But we won't have time to deal with the Feudal system, if we constantly have to fight mages, and their selfish desires... At the end of the line, the mages pose a far bigger threat to society, than any noble.

[cjones91]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

Mages can do it much easier though

True,but there are people like Vaugh who could stroll into a alienage, kidnap the women there,rape them and no one gives a ****.What's worse is the city guard could join in on it and drag the women kicking and screaming through the streets while no one does anything to stop them.

The point is nobles can and do get away with murder,treason,rape,torture,conspiracy,and a whole bunch of other crimes simply because they are noble blood.

Indeed they can. But we won't have time to deal with the Feudal system, if we constantly have to fight mages, and their selfish desires... At the end of the line, the mages pose a far bigger threat to society, than any noble.

Depending on the context a noble who throws a country into turmoil by conspiring to kill the king and any of his supporters is a major threat to the people of that country.Rendon Howe almost wiped out a entire family simply because he wanted power and then commited several atrocities to any that opposed him.Howe was no mage but he was a very dangerous man regardless so mages aren't the only ones that pose a threat.

[EmperorSahlertz]

cjones91 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

Mages can do it much easier though

True,but there are people like Vaugh who could stroll into a alienage, kidnap the women there,rape them and no one gives a ****.What's worse is the city guard could join in on it and drag the women kicking and screaming through the streets while no one does anything to stop them.

The point is nobles can and do get away with murder,treason,rape,torture,conspiracy,and a whole bunch of other crimes simply because they are noble blood.

Indeed they can. But we won't have time to deal with the Feudal system, if we constantly have to fight mages, and their selfish desires... At the end of the line, the mages pose a far bigger threat to society, than any noble.

Depending on the context a noble who throws a country into turmoil by conspiring to kill the king and any of his supporters is a major threat to the people of that country.Rendon Howe almost wiped out a entire family simply because he wanted power and then commited several atrocities to any that opposed him.Howe was no mage but he was a very dangerous man regardless so mages aren't the only ones that pose a threat.

You realize that Rendon Howe had an army backing him right? Mages don't even need one... Hell, some mages can even create their own army.... So no.. A mage will always be infinitely more dangerous than any one man.

[Sir DeLoria]

Lord Acton said: "Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.”

Mages have incredible power, even if only one mage turns rogue, hundreds could die. They can't be left unchecked.

Modifié par Necanor, 14 juillet 2013 - 09:58 .

[cjones91]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

Mages can do it much easier though

True,but there are people like Vaugh who could stroll into a alienage, kidnap the women there,rape them and no one gives a ****.What's worse is the city guard could join in on it and drag the women kicking and screaming through the streets while no one does anything to stop them.

The point is nobles can and do get away with murder,treason,rape,torture,conspiracy,and a whole bunch of other crimes simply because they are noble blood.

Indeed they can. But we won't have time to deal with the Feudal system, if we constantly have to fight mages, and their selfish desires... At the end of the line, the mages pose a far bigger threat to society, than any noble.

Depending on the context a noble who throws a country into turmoil by conspiring to kill the king and any of his supporters is a major threat to the people of that country.Rendon Howe almost wiped out a entire family simply because he wanted power and then commited several atrocities to any that opposed him.Howe was no mage but he was a very dangerous man regardless so mages aren't the only ones that pose a threat.

You realize that Rendon Howe had an army backing him right? Mages don't even need one... Hell, some mages can even create their own army.... So no.. A mage will always be infinitely more dangerous than any one man.

I know that's why I said depending on the context a noble could be just as much of a danger to the people.

[cjones91]

Necanor wrote...

Lord Acton said: "Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.”

Mages have incredible power, even if only one mage turns rogue, hundreds could die. They can't be left unchecked.

You might as well include nobles too since many of them abuse their power which can result in people dying on a whim.

Modifié par cjones91, 14 juillet 2013 - 10:01 .

[The Hierophant]

@cjones91 - the issue with magic based tech is that technological advancements would soley be dependant on mages/magic versus normal engineering/manufacturing methods that anyone can study, discover, and innovate, whereas the over reliance on magical healers could stagnate advancements in medical research.

Modifié par The Hierophant, 14 juillet 2013 - 10:06 .

[Sir DeLoria]

cjones91 wrote...

Necanor wrote...

Lord Acton said: "Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.”

Mages have incredible power, even if only one mage turns rogue, hundreds could die. They can't be left unchecked.

You might as well include nobles too since many of them abuse their power which can result in people dying on a whim.

Yep, nobles should be treated like any other peasant when it comes to law enforcement.

[cjones91]

The Hierophant wrote...

@cjones91 - the issue with magic based tech is that technological advancements would soley be dependant on mages/magic versus normal engineering/manufacturing methods that anyone can study, discover, and innovate, whereas the over reliance on magical healers could stagnate advancements in medical research.

I don't see how medical research would stagnate since magical healing would be a specialized field and not anyone could do it.If anything it could help improve medical care for the people of Thedas, as people use the various herbs and incredients to make highly effective potions because they could buy them from a magical healer's shop.

Modifié par cjones91, 14 juillet 2013 - 10:14 .

[Urazz]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

Mages can do it much easier though

True,but there are people like Vaugh who could stroll into a alienage, kidnap the women there,rape them and no one gives a ****.What's worse is the city guard could join in on it and drag the women kicking and screaming through the streets while no one does anything to stop them.

The point is nobles can and do get away with murder,treason,rape,torture,conspiracy,and a whole bunch of other crimes simply because they are noble blood.

Indeed they can. But we won't have time to deal with the Feudal system, if we constantly have to fight mages, and their selfish desires... At the end of the line, the mages pose a far bigger threat to society, than any noble.

Depending on the context a noble who throws a country into turmoil by conspiring to kill the king and any of his supporters is a major threat to the people of that country.Rendon Howe almost wiped out a entire family simply because he wanted power and then commited several atrocities to any that opposed him.Howe was no mage but he was a very dangerous man regardless so mages aren't the only ones that pose a threat.

You realize that Rendon Howe had an army backing him right? Mages don't even need one... Hell, some mages can even create their own army.... So no.. A mage will always be infinitely more dangerous than any one man.

You also got to realize that a lot of mages are not powerful enough that they can raise an army or destroy an army.  Most of them are about as deadly as a soldier.

The current system with the Circle of Magi doesn't stop those that would do whatever it takes to increase their power and then abuse said power.  It just locks down the normal mages and the powerful good mages.

Templars are needed to help go after the bad mages but I don't think mages need to stay locked in the tower all their life.  Like have them be free after they pass their Harrowing.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Urazz wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

Mages can do it much easier though

True,but there are people like Vaugh who could stroll into a alienage, kidnap the women there,rape them and no one gives a ****.What's worse is the city guard could join in on it and drag the women kicking and screaming through the streets while no one does anything to stop them.

The point is nobles can and do get away with murder,treason,rape,torture,conspiracy,and a whole bunch of other crimes simply because they are noble blood.

Indeed they can. But we won't have time to deal with the Feudal system, if we constantly have to fight mages, and their selfish desires... At the end of the line, the mages pose a far bigger threat to society, than any noble.

Depending on the context a noble who throws a country into turmoil by conspiring to kill the king and any of his supporters is a major threat to the people of that country.Rendon Howe almost wiped out a entire family simply because he wanted power and then commited several atrocities to any that opposed him.Howe was no mage but he was a very dangerous man regardless so mages aren't the only ones that pose a threat.

You realize that Rendon Howe had an army backing him right? Mages don't even need one... Hell, some mages can even create their own army.... So no.. A mage will always be infinitely more dangerous than any one man.

You also got to realize that a lot of mages are not powerful enough that they can raise an army or destroy an army.  Most of them are about as deadly as a soldier.

The current system with the Circle of Magi doesn't stop those that would do whatever it takes to increase their power and then abuse said power.  It just locks down the normal mages and the powerful good mages.

Templars are needed to help go after the bad mages but I don't think mages need to stay locked in the tower all their life.  Like have them be free after they pass their Harrowing.

A weak mage perhaps not. But a weak mage, also have a higher chance of becoming an Abomination. And once that happens, he will have no problem destroying entire cities. That is why a mage is so much more dangerous than any other human being.

[Bionuts]

If you knew someone that could control your mind, call down fire, lightning, ice, and turn people into demons... you would stay away from that person even if they never turn to blood magic before. The potential is too much.

Now more than a million of those? Eh..

[Urazz]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Urazz wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

Mages can do it much easier though

True,but there are people like Vaugh who could stroll into a alienage, kidnap the women there,rape them and no one gives a ****.What's worse is the city guard could join in on it and drag the women kicking and screaming through the streets while no one does anything to stop them.

The point is nobles can and do get away with murder,treason,rape,torture,conspiracy,and a whole bunch of other crimes simply because they are noble blood.

Indeed they can. But we won't have time to deal with the Feudal system, if we constantly have to fight mages, and their selfish desires... At the end of the line, the mages pose a far bigger threat to society, than any noble.

Depending on the context a noble who throws a country into turmoil by conspiring to kill the king and any of his supporters is a major threat to the people of that country.Rendon Howe almost wiped out a entire family simply because he wanted power and then commited several atrocities to any that opposed him.Howe was no mage but he was a very dangerous man regardless so mages aren't the only ones that pose a threat.

You realize that Rendon Howe had an army backing him right? Mages don't even need one... Hell, some mages can even create their own army.... So no.. A mage will always be infinitely more dangerous than any one man.

You also got to realize that a lot of mages are not powerful enough that they can raise an army or destroy an army.  Most of them are about as deadly as a soldier.

The current system with the Circle of Magi doesn't stop those that would do whatever it takes to increase their power and then abuse said power.  It just locks down the normal mages and the powerful good mages.

Templars are needed to help go after the bad mages but I don't think mages need to stay locked in the tower all their life.  Like have them be free after they pass their Harrowing.

A weak mage perhaps not. But a weak mage, also have a higher chance of becoming an Abomination. And once that happens, he will have no problem destroying entire cities. That is why a mage is so much more dangerous than any other human being.

Actually, a lot of why a weaker mage becomes an abomination is either due to choosing to consort with demons in some fashion to gain power or they are stressed and in a more vulnerable situation.  We did see a lot of mages become abominations in DA2 because they were in a bad situation (plus the veil being weak in Kirkwall).

Also, another thing is that there has been the point that mages that pass their harrowing should be allowed to become free of the tower and go back to their families at that point.

I think Templars should also be acting more as a police force against mages than as prison guards of the Circle.  If you notice a lot of the Templars' forces tend to be tied up in guarding the Circle than actually hunting down bad mages.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Urazz wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Urazz wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

Mages can do it much easier though

True,but there are people like Vaugh who could stroll into a alienage, kidnap the women there,rape them and no one gives a ****.What's worse is the city guard could join in on it and drag the women kicking and screaming through the streets while no one does anything to stop them.

The point is nobles can and do get away with murder,treason,rape,torture,conspiracy,and a whole bunch of other crimes simply because they are noble blood.

Indeed they can. But we won't have time to deal with the Feudal system, if we constantly have to fight mages, and their selfish desires... At the end of the line, the mages pose a far bigger threat to society, than any noble.

Depending on the context a noble who throws a country into turmoil by conspiring to kill the king and any of his supporters is a major threat to the people of that country.Rendon Howe almost wiped out a entire family simply because he wanted power and then commited several atrocities to any that opposed him.Howe was no mage but he was a very dangerous man regardless so mages aren't the only ones that pose a threat.

You realize that Rendon Howe had an army backing him right? Mages don't even need one... Hell, some mages can even create their own army.... So no.. A mage will always be infinitely more dangerous than any one man.

You also got to realize that a lot of mages are not powerful enough that they can raise an army or destroy an army.  Most of them are about as deadly as a soldier.

The current system with the Circle of Magi doesn't stop those that would do whatever it takes to increase their power and then abuse said power.  It just locks down the normal mages and the powerful good mages.

Templars are needed to help go after the bad mages but I don't think mages need to stay locked in the tower all their life.  Like have them be free after they pass their Harrowing.

A weak mage perhaps not. But a weak mage, also have a higher chance of becoming an Abomination. And once that happens, he will have no problem destroying entire cities. That is why a mage is so much more dangerous than any other human being.

Actually, a lot of why a weaker mage becomes an abomination is either due to choosing to consort with demons in some fashion to gain power or they are stressed and in a more vulnerable situation.  We did see a lot of mages become abominations in DA2 because they were in a bad situation (plus the veil being weak in Kirkwall).

Also, another thing is that there has been the point that mages that pass their harrowing should be allowed to become free of the tower and go back to their families at that point.

I think Templars should also be acting more as a police force against mages than as prison guards of the Circle.  If you notice a lot of the Templars' forces tend to be tied up in guarding the Circle than actually hunting down bad mages.

If a mage is being weak and consort with demons for more power, htne he has no place in society anyway. Stress is not a state of being unique to the Circle. And the mages are allowed visists and correnspondence with their families., in some, if not most, Circles. However, most mages have been in the Circle since they were small children, and have no memories of their families, and thus no place to return to anyway. And the CIrcle is the single best place to study magic in all of Thedas.
And hunting down bad mages and abomination, is horribly ineffiecient. The Templars wouldn't even hear about the mage or abomination in question, until weeks, maybe even months after they had been discovered. Needless to say, a response time measured in days, weeks and months, are obviously unacceptable, when the stakes are so high.

[Eveangaline]

It'd be interesting if a mage pc had the chance to be taken over by demons. Without it, the anti-mage arguments seem so weak.

Or maybe those arguments are just weak.

Modifié par Eveangaline, 15 juillet 2013 - 04:41 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

cjones91 wrote...
Thedas is stagnant because the Chantry keeps the people fearful when they should be using magic to create things that could not be rivaled.

But just like the Dark Ages in real life the Chantry willfully and intentionally keeps the people of Thedas ignorant and stifles any attempts of using magic to improve the lives of everyone.

Somethnig tells me you flunk history. Either that, or education where you live is really bad.

Star fury wrote...

When Cullen, the worst templar in DAO, is the BEST damn one in DA2, they're in deep trouble.

Cullen the worst?

[Lord Raijin]

As a loyal mage player I support both the mages and the Templars.

As a mage player why do you support the Templars?

I support the Templars because it's a necessary branch of military to have in each state. They already have a system to control weak and unstable mages. The Harrowing ritual is necessary for all mages to go through. The weak, unstable or those who simply do not want to master their magikica ability can go through the Rite of Tranquility as an act of mercy instead of being killed. The Side effect are indeed brutal, but it protects themselves and others around them. Being tranquil you still benefit from society so you don't become completely useless.

Being a mage with magic abilities IMO should not a right but a privilege. You should prove that you can master your abilities, and to resist demonic possessions. It's like getting a drivers license from the DMV. You must prove that you're capable of driving a motor vehicle, and know the laws.

This is where I support the mages. The circle should NOT be a prison but a safe haven for all-ages to go to master their special abilities. Families shouldn't have to cry or crash to the floor because the big bad Templars took their sons/daughters/brothers/sisters to the circle in cuffs. The Circle should be used for educational purpose. A college of some sort. Yes they should have a special unit for mage criminals.

Once a mage passes their Harrowing they should have a choice of returning back to their families or to further educate themselves.

If a mage is too weak or refusing to better themselves... the humane thing to do is to make them tranquil. Once they're branded they should be returned back to the families.

Modifié par Lord Raijin, 15 juillet 2013 - 08:14 .

[Brexan]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Somethnig tells me you flunk history. Either that, or education where you live is really bad.

Something tells me you flunked English. Either that, or education where you live is really bad.

Also, you're damned rude.

Lord Raijin wrote...
Being a mage with magic abilities IMO should not a right but a privilege. You should prove that you can master your abilities, and to resist demonic possessions. It's like getting a drivers license from the DMV. You must prove that you're capable of driving a motor vehicle, and know the laws. 

I can see where you're comming from, but given that a person does not have any choice in being born a mage it would seem to suggest that having life is a privelage, whereas I would argue its the most basic right. The term privelage suggests its somethin society can bestow, or take away as it sees fit.

I do agree with you that there needs to be some protection in place for the wider population against mages. The current situation in Thedas does seem to be a little over the top though, and as we are going to see in the next installment of the series its about to result in what could easily be pretty devestating war.  The system that is designed to protection people is provoking a war which could end up causing the same or greater level of devestation. Not everyone involved in the war will show restraint, and no doubt there will be at least some mages who will unleash demons to further their cause.

Exactly what system could be devised to keep a track on mages without restricting their freedoms and liberties is one hell of a question. Short of killing every potential mage at birth I can't see how a sufficient level of control can be imposed whils also keeping the mage population happy.

Modifié par Brexan, 15 juillet 2013 - 09:08 .

[Star fury]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...


Cullen the worst?

Absolutely lol.

[BouncyFrag]

Star fury wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...


Cullen the worst?

Absolutely lol.

*tosses over a flame shield, flees*

[Bionuts]

Anyone found out to be a mage should be killed. Problem solved.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Brexan wrote...
Something tells me you flunked English. Either that, or education where you live is really bad.

Also, you're damned rude.

Sorry, but historical misconceptions peddled as truth is a pet peeve of mine.

Lord Raijin wrote...
I can see where you're comming from, but given that a person does not have any choice in being born a mage it would seem to suggest that having life is a privelage, whereas I would argue its the most basic right. The term privelage suggests its somethin society can bestow, or take away as it sees fit.

Life fits in that categotry.

Exactly what system could be devised to keep a track on mages without restricting their freedoms and liberties is one hell of a question. Short of killing every potential mage at birth I can't see how a sufficient level of control can be imposed whils also keeping the mage population happy.

Which is exactly the problem.
There is no way to keep everyone happy.
Lock the mage up - he is unhappy.
Don't lock him up - the mundane is unhappy (especially when some mages burns down a village).

Ultimatively, is it even possible a containment/protection system ever make those it targets happy?
It's like judging the sucess of a prison system by how happy the inmates are in it. They will never be fully happy.