606 réponses à ce sujet

[TheProtheans]

AlanC9 wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...


You make a fair point Alan, but it's still a fact that explicitly rejecting the Catalyst leads to the Reapers killing all of the things (and that's to say nothing of the 'wisdom' in trusting in anything the glowing little turd has to say for itself) *shrugs*.

Well, that's the problem. A lot of what the Catalyst says is simply true. Even if Satan tells you 2 + 2 = 4, it's still 4.

Not when magic is involved.
Open you narrowed minded view and let magic take control of you.

[AlanC9]

Right. But the xenophobic pish is irrelevant anyway.

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...


You make a fair point Alan, but it's still a fact that explicitly rejecting the Catalyst leads to the Reapers killing all of the things (and that's to say nothing of the 'wisdom' in trusting in anything the glowing little turd has to say for itself) *shrugs*.

Well, that's the problem. A lot of what the Catalyst says is simply true. Even if Satan tells you 2 + 2 = 4, it's still 4.

What the Catalyst says that is true is mostly what the Catalyst created inits own self-fufilling prophecy.

It takes 2+3, forcibly subtracts one, then declares 2+2=4

[AlanC9]

Fandango9641 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Right. But the xenophobic pish is irrelevant anyway.

If by irrelevant you mean poorly conceived and offensive I couldn't agree more.

If you like, but so what? What the Catalyst and his creators believed is of historical interest, but that's it

[txgoldrush]

iakus wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

iakus wrote...
I didn't zone out.  I'm saying that statement in EC is utter and complete nonsense on top of the sheer nonsense of the endings.  Nonsense with a side of nonsense that flies in the face of everything we've learned about the Reapers over the entire trilogy.  EC deserves to be mocked for that line alone.

Regardless, it is canon, and must be accounted for in any discussion about the Catalyst's motivations.

And here you hit on the big problem with the Catalyst (well, one of the big problems)  He is so full of contradictions and logical fallacies that nothing he says stands up to scrutiny. The best you can do is make the logical leaps that hurt your brain least.

So a villain can't have problems in his logic?

There is a flaw with the Catalyst...it simply put, does not truly understand organic life.

Modifié par txgoldrush, 14 juin 2013 - 11:58 .

[txgoldrush]

Reorte wrote...

Tron Mega wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

No they don't...if they got it, they would understand that it dealt with themes not only throughout ME3, but the entire series.

And if you don't like the theme of sacrifice or that you can't save everyone...too bad. Hell, you couldn't save everyone in ME1 and ME2's ending. Its consistent.

im not sure i sacrificed anything throughout the ME trilogy, other then the VS......

i dont consider everyone that died, that their death was a sacrifice. like i didnt sacrifice all the people that died on earth at the begining of ME3. or am i supposed to feel like just becasue someone died, it was a sacrifice?

i played a suicide mission WHERE NO ONE DIED. even when the game tells me i should be sacrificeing, im not seeing it happen.

Exactly. There's a huge big difference between "It's war, sometimes people die" and sacrifice being a specific theme. 

No one dies in ME2's perfect suicide run?

Like the Horizon colonists? Including Lilith?

Nevermind once again, ME3 is clearly about sacrifice. In almost every major mission of the game, there are sacrifices being made.

[Iakus]

txgoldrush wrote...

So a villain can't have problems in his logic?

There is a flaw with the Catalyst...it simply put, does not truly understand organic life.

If you have to capitualte to that logic, yes

[Maxster_]

iakus wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

So a villain can't have problems in his logic?

There is a flaw with the Catalyst...it simply put, does not truly understand organic life.

If you have to capitualte to that logic, yes

ME3 is a story about futility and unconditional surrender to a insane powerful entity. Some people, obviously, okay with that

[hpjay]

txgoldrush wrote...

No one dies in ME2's perfect suicide run?

Like the Horizon colonists? Including Lilith?

Nevermind once again, ME3 is clearly about sacrifice. In almost every major mission of the game, there are sacrifices being made.

No, no one dies in a perfect suicide run.  Why do you ask?  Did you lose squadmates on your suicide run?  Did you not know that if you completed the loyalty missions and performed the necessary Normandy upgrades, that no one dies on the SR?

As for the Horizon colonists, yes they did die.  But what does that have to do with sacrifice.  There was no trade off there.  The colonist were casualties.  Nothing more.  Do you you think simply having a character die in a story is an example of sacrifice?  Weird.  

[hpjay]

Kataphrut94 wrote...

Surely the fact that the Reapers motivations make no sense must mean that they are still inscrutable and mysterious.

No really.  They just make no sence, or poor sense.    Inscrutable and mysterious is like old HP Lovecraft or Phillip K Dick.  If you really want inscrutable and mysterious read Solaris by Stanislaw Lem and try to figure out what is up with the planet.  There's another one by Lem, a bit dry and difficult, called His Masters Voice that is text book inscrutable and mysterious.

[Angry_Elcor]

Thank you, OP. Tell me more. Should I go for the extended warranty on my iPhone?

[txgoldrush]

iakus wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

So a villain can't have problems in his logic?

There is a flaw with the Catalyst...it simply put, does not truly understand organic life.

If you have to capitualte to that logic, yes

and how is destroy capitulating?

[txgoldrush]

Maxster_ wrote...

iakus wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

So a villain can't have problems in his logic?

There is a flaw with the Catalyst...it simply put, does not truly understand organic life.

If you have to capitualte to that logic, yes

ME3 is a story about futility and unconditional surrender to a insane powerful entity. Some people, obviously, okay with that

or you simply did not get it.

He can tell you that he is bound to the Crucible and the choices it provides like you are.

[Tron Mega]

txgoldrush wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

iakus wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

So a villain can't have problems in his logic?

There is a flaw with the Catalyst...it simply put, does not truly understand organic life.

If you have to capitualte to that logic, yes

ME3 is a story about futility and unconditional surrender to a insane powerful entity. Some people, obviously, okay with that

or you simply did not get it.

He can tell you that he is bound to the Crucible and the choices it provides like you are.

i was never bound to the crucible.

thats why i picked refuse.

hacket, and subsequently the rest of the galaxy, were just written into being morons.

Modifié par Tron Mega, 15 juin 2013 - 01:04 .

[Tron Mega]

txgoldrush wrote...

Reorte wrote...

Tron Mega wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

No they don't...if they got it, they would understand that it dealt with themes not only throughout ME3, but the entire series.

And if you don't like the theme of sacrifice or that you can't save everyone...too bad. Hell, you couldn't save everyone in ME1 and ME2's ending. Its consistent.

im not sure i sacrificed anything throughout the ME trilogy, other then the VS......

i dont consider everyone that died, that their death was a sacrifice. like i didnt sacrifice all the people that died on earth at the begining of ME3. or am i supposed to feel like just becasue someone died, it was a sacrifice?

i played a suicide mission WHERE NO ONE DIED. even when the game tells me i should be sacrificeing, im not seeing it happen.

Exactly. There's a huge big difference between "It's war, sometimes people die" and sacrifice being a specific theme. 

No one dies in ME2's perfect suicide run?

Like the Horizon colonists? Including Lilith?

Nevermind once again, ME3 is clearly about sacrifice. In almost every major mission of the game, there are sacrifices being made.

is it sacrifice because they died? or sacrifice because they died for something?

all of ME3s story segments are about creating a big enough meat shield to protect the device that nobody knows a damn thing about.

i wouldnt call that sacrifice. id just call it stupid.

[AlanC9]

Tron Mega wrote...

i was never bound to the crucible.

thats why i picked refuse.

hacket, and subsequently the rest of the galaxy, were just written into being morons.

Morons because they trusted your Shepard? 

[Maxster_]

txgoldrush wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

iakus wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

So a villain can't have problems in his logic?

There is a flaw with the Catalyst...it simply put, does not truly understand organic life.

If you have to capitualte to that logic, yes

ME3 is a story about futility and unconditional surrender to a insane powerful entity. Some people, obviously, okay with that

or you simply did not get it.

He can tell you that he is bound to the Crucible and the choices it provides like you are.

Which is pure bull****, given the refusal ending.
And of course it is bull**** long before that, because Crucible could not be created at all.
And of course, he tells you that he is bound to the Crucible, and the choices it provides you. Sure, for an entity which strategy relies on manipulation and brainwashing, he is telling the truth, yes.

[AlanC9]

Maxster_ wrote...
Which is pure bull****, given the refusal ending.
And of course it is bull**** long before that, because Crucible could not be created at all.
And of course, he tells you that he is bound to the Crucible, and the choices it provides you. Sure, for an entity which strategy relies on manipulation and brainwashing, he is telling the truth, yes.

This doesn't make much sense. If you mean he's lying about something, what's he lying about?