606 réponses à ce sujet

[txgoldrush]

NeonFlux117 wrote...

The ending was an attempt for and I quote from Hudson- "High level storytelling". And an attempt at deus ex machina. One of the themes of the entire game is sacrifice not just the ending. Derp.

The ending isn't bad cause "we don't get it" it's bad cause it's bad storytelling and lacks narrative cohesiveness and also introduces a major character- The Catalyst, in the last 15 minutes of a 90 plus hour narrative and plot.

That's called poor writing and storytelling.

Nuff said.

Actually its opposite of deus ex machina.....a true DEM character archetype played straight simply doesn't say this.

"You have altered the variables, the Crucible changed me, created new possibilities, but I can't make them happen"

[txgoldrush]

Bill Casey wrote...

And Arrival fails horribly for that matter...
The achievement for blowing up a Batarian system is "The Ultimate Sacrifice"...

Harbinger: "You consider this a victory, a star system sacrificed"

**** you...
If you're a Renegade who doesn't like Batarians, there is no sacrifice...
And if you're a Paragon, Arrival isn't a victory. It's a second act defeat...

And notice how Arrival is thematic transition to ME3.

[txgoldrush]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

How can the theme of the ending be sacrifice when in High-EMS Destroy you don't even sacrifice anything?

EDI and the Geth.

[txgoldrush]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

NeonFlux117 wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

For anyone interested, here's the list of main themes that I personally saw from the series up to just before the ending. I think an ending based off of these themes would have been much better appreciated by the fans, though of course that is my own hubris speaking.

Here's my ending concept itself. It is kind of hokey and not completely thought out, but I'd like to know how people would see it compared to what we have.

I agree with all your themes pre ending. Post ending is just nihilistic crap. Nothing matters, it's all reciprocal and things (like synthesis) will inevitably happen.Weak sauce. And dumb. 

And the ending took those themes and abandoned them for it's own purposes. The theme of the ending changed Mass Effect to justify the nihilistic ending crap we got. Pre-EC, I think CHud and SuperMac wanted you to pick Synthesis. I think to them, the whole point of the ending was Synthesis. So they created a scenario to justify it's addition.

No, they didn't...sacrifice has been a huge part of the series since ME1......Virmire, Bring Down the Sky, ME2's intro, Nevermind both sides of sacrifice such as Jacob's father sacrificing his crew and the possibility of sacrificing the workers in that factory so Zaeed can get revenge.

In ME3, through Arrival, it just becomes the main theme.

[Bill Casey]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Pre-EC, I think CHud and SuperMac wanted you to pick Synthesis. I think to them, the whole point of the ending was Synthesis. So they created a scenario to justify it's addition.

Hudson lobbied a long time for a secret ending where shepard lived, and Walters plays renegade shep and is on record saying the reapers are as bad as everyone says and you don't want to be doing anything but killing them...

[Bill Casey]

txgoldrush wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

And Arrival fails horribly for that matter...
The achievement for blowing up a Batarian system is "The Ultimate Sacrifice"...

Harbinger: "You consider this a victory, a star system sacrificed"

**** you...
If you're a Renegade who doesn't like Batarians, there is no sacrifice...
And if you're a Paragon, Arrival isn't a victory. It's a second act defeat...

And notice how Arrival is thematic transition to ME3.

Commiting genocide is not sacrifice...
It doesn't work...


The theme becomes "victory through being a horrible monster"...
Which ****s all over the very concept of paragon...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 10 juin 2013 - 08:12 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Bill Casey wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Pre-EC, I think CHud and SuperMac wanted you to pick Synthesis. I think to them, the whole point of the ending was Synthesis. So they created a scenario to justify it's addition.

Hudson lobbied a long time for a secret ending where shepard lived, and Walters plays renegade shep and is on record saying the reapers are as bad as everyone says and you don't want to be doing anything but killing them...

That's true, but does that still really say what they want? They can add other endings, but I really think that for them, Synthesis was the ending they hoped players would embrace.

[TheProtheans]

These are types of themes almost every game has.
To put them out is bit silly.

[txgoldrush]

Bill Casey wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

And Arrival fails horribly for that matter...
The achievement for blowing up a Batarian system is "The Ultimate Sacrifice"...

Harbinger: "You consider this a victory, a star system sacrificed"

**** you...
If you're a Renegade who doesn't like Batarians, there is no sacrifice...
And if you're a Paragon, Arrival isn't a victory. It's a second act defeat...

And notice how Arrival is thematic transition to ME3.

Commiting genocide is not sacrifice...
It doesn't work...


The theme becomes "victory through being a horrible monster"...
Which ****s all over the very concept of paragon...

How is it genocide? Because it really doesn't fit the term.

[Yestare7]

txgoldrush wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

How can the theme of the ending be sacrifice when in High-EMS Destroy you don't even sacrifice anything?

EDI and the Geth.

THAT's not sacrifice, it's icing on the cake!!:whistle:

[Seboist]

txgoldrush wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

How can the theme of the ending be sacrifice when in High-EMS Destroy you don't even sacrifice anything?

EDI and the Geth.

Cthulhu didn't have to sacrifice the Geth in that ending.

Modifié par Seboist, 10 juin 2013 - 08:26 .

[Fixers0]

Sacrifice is what you made it to be, not what it is. Fact and opinion are very different things.

In reality, the ending was about listining to the nonsensical story of Holographic kid and then shooting attube/grab two electrified rods/jump into a beam to produce a red/blue/green wave, that's it.

Modifié par Fixers0, 10 juin 2013 - 08:41 .

[Archonsg]

Shouldn't be surprised.
Txgoldrush, like Sevial and Auld Wulf has been telling us for ages, that we just don't get it.
/shrugs

This time it's "sacrifice".
Right.
Accepting an ultimatum, accepting a solution dictated by the enemy because there is *no other way to win* as intended by the writers isn't capitulation, it's "sacrifice".

[Ridwan]

Don't worry bro! I totally get the ending.

It's like you shouldn't refuse, cause like, then you're just being a lamer and a buzzkill. Like this hot chick I wanted to bang, but she refused and I had to like hook up with her fat friend instead (she weighed like almost 60kg). So refuse is lame.

And you know, like destroy is the bad, cause it's like red and like red is bad cause you know, the commies are red. Also red is like... flames 'n **** and that hurts, like really bad. Like this one time I made a bet how long I could, like, keep my hand over a candle, well... it hurts bro.

Also like blue is like alright and stuff, cause you know water is blue and you can drink that, but then again, salt water is like, blue too! And you can't drink that ****, can you? So it's like... blue is like taking a gamble, either you can drink it or not.

So green is like totally the right choice, cause it's like green, and green is good. Like greenpeace, the nature, ehmm... weed, and ehm.... grass... ehmmm cucumbers, you know what I mean bro! It's like green means we're one with nature, but like nature here is the Reapers and when we're like green we all become one with our inner robots!

Modifié par M25105, 10 juin 2013 - 08:52 .

[Ryzaki]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

*sigh*

Cause this is exactly what we needed. More ending debates.

There's nothing wrong with debate.

But the OP is more or less flame baiting now. He's made numerous threads and appearances in other threads saying the exact same thing. 

When it becomes the same circlejerk between the same 3 or 4 people yeah there's plenty wrong with it.

[txgoldrush]

Archonsg wrote...

Shouldn't be surprised.
Txgoldrush, like Sevial and Auld Wulf has been telling us for ages, that we just don't get it.
/shrugs

This time it's "sacrifice".
Right.
Accepting an ultimatum, accepting a solution dictated by the enemy because there is *no other way to win* as intended by the writers isn't capitulation, it's "sacrifice".

And how is Destroy dictated by the enemy?

Nevermind he warns you against it saying the chaos will come back.

Also note that he says that he is bound by the same choices Shepard is...meaning its the Crucible that provides them, not the Catalyst, so you are wrong and you didn't get it.

[txgoldrush]

Fixers0 wrote...

Sacrifice is what you made it to be, not what it is. Fact and opinion are very different things.

In reality, the ending was about listining to the nonsensical story of Holographic kid and then shooting attube/grab two electrified rods/jump into a beam to produce a red/blue/green wave, that's it.

No, you refuse to except facts.

Nevermind Hudson described ME3 as "victory through sacrifice"....his exact words.

You can accept that sacrifice is the main theme, or you can continue to be ignorant about it, refusing to accept this fact.

Once again, tell me, why does the three main endings all end in taking about sacrifice with the memorial wall scene?

Maybe because, its the main theme.

[Archonsg]

txgoldrush wrote...

Archonsg wrote...

Shouldn't be surprised.
Txgoldrush, like Sevial and Auld Wulf has been telling us for ages, that we just don't get it.
/shrugs

This time it's "sacrifice".
Right.
Accepting an ultimatum, accepting a solution dictated by the enemy because there is *no other way to win* as intended by the writers isn't capitulation, it's "sacrifice".

And how is Destroy dictated by the enemy?

Nevermind he warns you against it saying the chaos will come back.

Also note that he says that he is bound by the same choices Shepard is...meaning its the Crucible that provides them, not the Catalyst, so you are wrong and you didn't get it.

/facepalm 
And,  there it is,  missing/ignoring/not understanding *my point*. 

[Anthadlas]

Jeusus, did you really need to start this troll thread up again after the last one got locked?

[Tonymac]

This is another pathetic attempt by a developer cronie to put the blame on the player for the failure of the game. We as players tell the devs/Bioware that the ending sucks balls. They point at us and yell that we are too dumb to get it - try to shame us into backing down or being quiet.

We get the ending. Its just so dumb and breathtakingly stupid and poorly written tht there is NO excuse for it.

Many forumites are trying hard to comprehend the ending - as if an answer will help them deal with the utter garbage that is the end. A prime example of this would be the the indoctrination theory. It was a good effort on their part - and happened to be a more interesting story than the devs tried to paint.

Try as hard as you might, a spaceterd is still a spaceterd. You can't make it any better. You can call it high minded, "only the intellectually elite get it" and all of that other jazz - even blame Bush for it. Its still just a spaceterd.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

The story of 120-160 hrs is about friends. Less than five minutes of the story is about sacrifice. I understand the point of the ending perfectly. It is dumb.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 10 juin 2013 - 10:53 .

[KiwiQuiche]

I was going to make a strong, opinionated argument against you but then I remembered your username. Oh well, game on Gold.

EDIT: Also the quote in my signature is kinda relevant to this.

Modifié par KiwiQuiche, 10 juin 2013 - 10:55 .

[Asharad Hett]

Speculation for everyone!

[Seboist]

Need I remind everyone that the OP once claimed that Kai Leng was SUPPOSED to be a joke(lol).

[TheProtheans]

txgoldrush wrote...

So when anti enders say that the themes of the ending come out of nowhere, they really do not get it.

Which is weird considering it has little to do with anti-enders and more to do with Fans.
Me thinks you  like don't anti enders.

Modifié par TheProtheans, 10 juin 2013 - 11:17 .