606 réponses à ce sujet

[Farangbaa]

KaiserShep:

The Mass Relays are almost as old as the Reapers. That, and the entire nature of the Mass Relays is so strange compared to anything else that's in the universe, that they would at the very least spark massive interest.

AlanC9:

We're almost looking as far back as the big bang, which is well outside our galaxy. (though you could argue that at the time of the big bang it was our galaxy)

And here's something else: a lot of people can't get over the ending, yet somehow live with the fact that a Geth memory core, presented by a Quarian (!!!), is "irrefutable proof".

Why not stop playing the game there?

The entire nature of a game, book, or movie like this is that it's all highly unlikely. You can come up with some story to make it seem somewhat plausible, but when you expect it closely, it's all very dodgy, at best. Making everything want to fit in a real world setting will ruin it, by definition.

One of the parts of the entire IT is that your pistol seemingly has endless ammo. I don't even carry a pistol, ever, whatever character I play (I even use assault rifles on an adept. Yes, also in ME1. Not in ME2, obviously, because it's not possible).

Somehow my Shepard always seems to bring a pistol along, just for the cutscenes.

[txgoldrush]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

I'm too lazy to read through all these pages; has txgoldrush given an explanation for how the main theme of ME3 is sacrifice when almost all of the potential sacrifices can be avoided yet?

Can you avoid Legion's sacrifice? Thane's? Mordin's without sacrificing the Krogan's future? Nyreen's?

Can you save both Koris and his crew? Can you save Rila? Tarquin Victus?

There is some sacrifice you can avoid, but others you can't.

Almost every mission deals with sacrifice in some form, Nevermind Omega DLC, its the central theme there as well.

---------

From PC Gamer preview with Hudson

"Casey sums up Mass Effect 3 as being about victory through sacrifice, the scale of that sacrifice has been increasing with each new chapter"

Modifié par txgoldrush, 18 juin 2013 - 07:32 .

[hpjay]

txgoldrush wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

I'm too lazy to read through all these pages; has txgoldrush given an explanation for how the main theme of ME3 is sacrifice when almost all of the potential sacrifices can be avoided yet?

Can you avoid Legion's sacrifice? Thane's? Mordin's without sacrificing the Krogan's future? Nyreen's?

Can you save both Koris and his crew? Can you save Rila? Tarquin Victus?

There is some sacrifice you can avoid, but others you can't.

Almost every mission deals with sacrifice in some form, Nevermind Omega DLC, its the central theme there as well.

---------

From PC Gamer preview with Hudson

"Casey sums up Mass Effect 3 as being about victory through sacrifice, the scale of that sacrifice has been increasing with each new chapter"

 

And there's the problem.  The sacrifice was on Starkids terms, not ours.  And it was the only sacrifice of signifigance for Shepard.  Shepard didn't really give up anything important to him/her until the end.  And then it was weak, the Starkids choices and arguements were weak.  Shepard dying after the line "best seats in the house"  would have worked so much better.  But no.  Instead we're given the last 5 minutes of philosophising and a dryly intelectual climax that squandered that feeling of sacrifice.

[The Night Mammoth]

[quote]txgoldrush wrote...

[quote]Cthulhu42 wrote...

I'm too lazy to read through all these pages; has txgoldrush given an explanation for how the main theme of ME3 is sacrifice when almost all of the potential sacrifices can be avoided yet?[/quote]
Can you avoid Legion's sacrifice?[/quote]
Yes.
[quote]Thane's?[/quote]
Yes.
[quote]Mordin's without sacrificing the Krogan's future?[/quote]
Yes.
[quote]Nyreen's?[/quote]
Yes.

[quote]Can you save both Koris and his crew?[/quote]
No, but you don't have to do that mission. Or care.

[quote]Can you save Rila?[/quote]
Rila who was already in the process of becoming a Banshee? Where's the sacrifice there?
[quote]Tarquin Victus?[/quote]
No, and that is a solid example of someone sacrificing themselves.

[quote]There is some sacrifice you can avoid, but others you can't.[/quote]
Whereas working together and unity is basically the corner stone of everything Shepard does. 

[quote]Almost every mission deals with sacrifice in some form, Nevermind Omega DLC, its the central theme there as well.[/quote]
Omega's central theme is not sacrifice. One character abruptly killing themselves in an insanely contrived manner, does not make the whole DLC about sacrifice. 

[quote]From PC Gamer preview with Hudson

"Casey sums up Mass Effect 3 as being about victory through sacrifice, the scale of that sacrifice has been increasing with each new chapter"[/quote]
Yeah, what Casey Hudson has to say doesn't matter. 

[Mcfly616]

Lol ^


Is that how you rationalize things? Hmm....quite telling.

Modifié par Mcfly616, 18 juin 2013 - 11:30 .

[The Night Mammoth]

Oh no, I've been judged by Mcfly616, I'm going to throw myself off a building because I don't think I can live with that.

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 18 juin 2013 - 11:08 .

[FlamingBoy]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Oh no, I've been judged by Mcfly616, I'm going to throw myself off a building because I don't think I can live with that.

You must perform the wiccan cleansing ritual ASAP!!! Ok every one we need a barrel and 20 electric eels, Don't worry I will bring the baby powder.....

God I hope I am not to late.

[Nightwriter]

I don't get how you can say poorly written sacrifice is in keeping with a history of well written sacrifice.

For poorly written sacrifice to fit a pre-established pattern the pattern needs to consist of more poorly written sacrifice.

[Mcfly616]

Just pointing out how pathetic your post is

Modifié par Mcfly616, 18 juin 2013 - 11:29 .

[KiwiQuiche]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Oh no, I've been judged by Mcfly616, I'm going to throw myself off a building because I don't think I can live with that.

Yeah, god forbid. But seriously, I agree with your deconstructive post above. "One character abruptly killing themselves in an insanely contrived manner" seems to happen a stupid amount of times in ME.

Seriously Goldrush, who cares about Rila? You can kill the other one as well to be on the safe side.

Mcfly616 wrote...

Just pointing out how pathetic your post is

I see someone doesn't like being mocked.

Oh and there's a big difference between telling and showing. He said it was about sacrifice? I certainly didn't see it in the game, so him saying it and it actually being there is different. 

Modifié par KiwiQuiche, 18 juin 2013 - 11:40 .

[The Night Mammoth]

Mcfly616 wrote...

Just pointing out how pathetic your post is

And you did it so astutely too, truly, a perfect demonstration of why I've always considered you one of BSN's paragon's of reason and logic.

[IntelligentME3Fanboy]

what sacrifice?Im ultra paragonz boy scout i save everyone

[Maxster_]

Psychevore wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

Psychevore wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

We're only now in the recent decade and a half or so detecting new planets. It's hard enough to detect even gas giants. And the method used is doppler effect. Not clear observation. Moon sized relays in another stellar system would be extremely difficult to detect. The one in the Sol system wouldn't however. I've always found that questionable myself. Did it get moved here? Or was it always here?

Detecting planets is hard, because they only reflect light. Mass relays are a light source. MUCH easier to detect.

I choose not to argue about the Sol relay, because it's explained in the game why it wasn't found (a somewhat weak explanation, but still)

And I stress that I'm only arguing this here for the sake of showing that focusing so much on plotholes/errors sucks the fun out of the entire game. I really, really love all of the Mass Effect games.

That's new :lol::lol:
http://en.wikipedia....ki/Radiant_flux
http://en.wikipedia....rasolar_planets

You clearly have no idea what are you talking about.

http://en.wikipedia....ight_variations

Which would also apply to Mass Relays.  If anything, a Mass Relay would show up as a highly irregular object in space, sometimes emitting light, mostly reflecting it from a nearby sun. (or the other way around, if it was used frequently)

Like someone with spastic fingers using a flashlight at night.

That, or don't obey to any physical laws whatsoever.

And yes, I highly simplified the detection of planets. But the fact that Mass Relays are light sources would make them stand out against anything in the universe, except stars. 

Short period giant planets in close orbits around their stars will undergo reflected light variations changes because, like the Moon, they will go through phases
from full to new and back again. Since telescopes cannot resolve the
planet from the star, they see only the combined light, and the
brightness of the host star seems to change over each orbit in a
periodic manner. Although the effect is small — the photometric
precision required is about the same as to detect an Earth-sized planet
in transit across a solar-type star – such Jupiter-sized planets are
detectable by space telescopes such as the Kepler Space Observatory.
Like with many other methods, it is easier to detect large planets
orbiting close to their parent star than other planets as these planets
catch more light from their parent star. In the long run, this method
may find the most planets that will be discovered by that mission
because the reflected light variation with orbital phase is largely
independent of orbital inclination of the planet's orbit and does not
require the planet to pass in front of the disk of the star. It still
cannot detect planets with circular face-on orbits from Earth's
viewpoint as the amount of reflected light doesn't change.

Planets, you know.
They are by orders of magnitude larger than a mass relay.

As i said, you really have no idea, what are you talking about.

In radiometry, radiant flux or radiant power is the measure of the total power of electromagnetic radiation (including infrared, ultraviolet, and visible light). The power may be the total emitted from a source, or the total landing on a particular surface.

You are basically saying, that radiant power of a mass relay is stronger than a radiant power of a gas giant.
Like saying, that a handheld light source, orbiting alpha centaury, will be much easily detected from earth, than any planet orbiting those stars.
Because, you know, it is a ligh source. :lol::lol:

[Maxster_]

Psychevore wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Depends on how much light, doesn't it? And how close the active relays are to Earth.

If we can detect the reflection of light off of planets NOT EVEN IN OUR GALAXY, I'm pretty sure we'd be able to detect the mass relays. No matter how dim they are compared to stars.

For the love of God, seriously.

:lol::lol:

[AlanC9]

Psychevore wrote...

AlanC9:

We're almost looking as far back as the big bang, which is well outside our galaxy. (though you could argue that at the time of the big bang it was our galaxy)

But we're not detecting planets by reflected light outside of our galaxy, which is what you were talking about when you started ranting about stuff outside of our galaxy.

Surely you're not saying that relays are as bright as stars?

[AlanC9]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Victus, Rila, Nyreen, and Koris all appear in optional missions, Thane can be dead pre-ME3 (and I don't consider getting stabbed in a fight a "sacrifice" anyway), Legion can be killed instead of allowing it to sacrifice itself, and Mordin can be saved via persuasion.

So yes, you can avoid them.

If you don't do the Koris mission both he and the crew die. Interesting way to svoid sacrifice.

[TheRealJayDee]

Benchpress610 wrote...

My opinion, whoever wrote it has no clue either. At least I haven’t heard anyone from BioWare addressing the issue. Their silence speaks volumes. 

Just wait until enough people have had the chance to experience ME3's endings, then they will be able and willing to discuss things...

[KaiserShep]

AlanC9 wrote...

Psychevore wrote...

AlanC9:

We're almost looking as far back as the big bang, which is well outside our galaxy. (though you could argue that at the time of the big bang it was our galaxy)

But we're not detecting planets by reflected light outside of our galaxy, which is what you were talking about when you started ranting about stuff outside of our galaxy.

Surely you're not saying that relays are as bright as stars?

It also bears reminding that the relays are relatively tiny. The light they produce would be obscured by the star system they're in, and on top of that, being nowhere as near a star in terms of brightness, the light they emit can also be obscured as it interacts with other masses in space. So the light from a relay may not even get that far. 

[Liamv2]

Wow i'm kinda suprised this has not been locked yet

[CronoDragoon]

Well, I like this relay-light-detection discussion that's begun.

[txgoldrush]

[quote]The Night Mammoth wrote...

[quote]txgoldrush wrote...

[quote]Cthulhu42 wrote...

I'm too lazy to read through all these pages; has txgoldrush given an explanation for how the main theme of ME3 is sacrifice when almost all of the potential sacrifices can be avoided yet?[/quote]
Can you avoid Legion's sacrifice?[/quote]
Yes.

[quote]Thane's?[/quote]
Yes.

[quote]Mordin's without sacrificing the Krogan's future?[/quote]
Yes.

[quote]Nyreen's?[/quote]
Yes.


[quote]Can you save both Koris and his crew?[/quote]
No, but you don't have to do that mission. Or care.


[quote]Can you save Rila?[/quote]
Rila who was already in the process of becoming a Banshee? Where's the sacrifice there?

[quote]Tarquin Victus?[/quote]
No, and that is a solid example of someone sacrificing themselves.


[quote]There is some sacrifice you can avoid, but others you can't.[/quote]
Whereas working together and unity is basically the corner stone of everything Shepard does. 


[quote]Almost every mission deals with sacrifice in some form, Nevermind Omega DLC, its the central theme there as well.[/quote]
Omega's central theme is not sacrifice. One character abruptly killing themselves in an insanely contrived manner, does not make the whole DLC about sacrifice. 

[quote]From PC Gamer preview with Hudson

"Casey sums up Mass Effect 3 as being about victory through sacrifice, the scale of that sacrifice has been increasing with each new chapter"[/quote]
Yeah, what Casey Hudson has to say doesn't matter. 
[/quote]

Wow you are so wrong.....

No, you can't avoid sacrifice in regards to Legion, he sacrifices himself or you sacrifice him for the Quarian fleet.

If Thane is alive, you cannot avoid his sacrifice, he will always die.

The only way Mordin can survive is if you sacrifice the Krogan's future.

Optional missions still count.

"Whereas working together and unity is basically the corner stone of everything Shepard does."

ME1 Renegade Shepard disagrees

"Omega's central theme is not sacrifice. One character abruptly killing themselves in an insanely contrived manner, does not make the whole DLC about sacrifice."

You really don't get it, do you? The entire foil between Nyreen and Aria, what drives the entire DLC, is on the theme of sacrifice.

[txgoldrush]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Oh no, I've been judged by Mcfly616, I'm going to throw myself off a building because I don't think I can live with that.

Yeah, god forbid. But seriously, I agree with your deconstructive post above. "One character abruptly killing themselves in an insanely contrived manner" seems to happen a stupid amount of times in ME.

Seriously Goldrush, who cares about Rila? You can kill the other one as well to be on the safe side.

Mcfly616 wrote...

Just pointing out how pathetic your post is

I see someone doesn't like being mocked.

Oh and there's a big difference between telling and showing. He said it was about sacrifice? I certainly didn't see it in the game, so him saying it and it actually being there is different. 

And killing the other one is sacrificing her.....sacrificing others to accomplish the mission is part of the theme of sacrifice. Shepard does have moral justification to kill Falere, especially if Samara isn't present....she is an ardat yakshi and she can turn into a banshee.

"Oh and there's a big difference between telling and showing. He said it was about sacrifice? I certainly didn't see it in the game, so him saying it and it actually being there is different.  "

Not only do they talk about it throughout the game, they show it. Even in comical moments like Conrad Verner.

[The Night Mammoth]

txgoldrush wrote...

Wow you are so wrong.....

Condescendingly says someone is wrong; proceeds not to prove so. 

No, you can't avoid sacrifice in regards to Legion, he sacrifices himself or you sacrifice him for the Quarian fleet.

How is gleefully shooting the Legion VI not avoiding Legion's sacrifice?

If Thane is alive, you cannot avoid his sacrifice, he will always die.

And if he dies?

The only way Mordin can survive is if you sacrifice the Krogan's future.

Where's the sacrifice in preventing the genophage cure?

Optional missions still count.

No, they don't, since you're trying to argue that sacrifice is the main theme of Mass Effect. It's not the main theme if it's possible for the player to miss half the content which makes it so. 

ME1 Renegade Shepard disagrees

How exactly does one play a Shepard without promoting cooperation?

You really don't get it, do you? The entire foil between Nyreen and Aria, what drives the entire DLC, is on the theme of sacrifice.

How? There's exactly one concrete moment of sacrifice in the whole DLC, and that's Nyreen's death, which is, as I said, abrupt and contrived and actually doesn't matter at all to anything outside of those three civilians she saves.

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 18 juin 2013 - 06:25 .

[Seboist]

LOL @"sacrificing the krogan's future"

How the hell is someone deliberately sabotaging the genophage cure ANY kind of sacrifice?

Did I make "sacrifices" of the futures of characters i choose to deliberately execute by that logic?