141 réponses à ce sujet

[Medhia Nox]

Who really "hotly debates" the Inquisition in their day to day?

Too soon? Are we really saying it's "too soon" for the use of the term Inquisition?

[Androme]

Medhia Nox wrote...

Yes, Jews and Muslims everywhere should be outraged at the use of the term Inquisition... sitting in interrogation and having your property and wealth seized in a sanctioned act of greed must be infuriating.

Fortunately - in Thedas, everyone does things for emotional overreaction and not greed (unlike the real world where it's pretty much opposite) - and the mage/templar war is about actual killing (unlike the real world Inquisitions which weren't all about killing people even if it did happen).

I guess I as a white, cultural-christian westerner don't have any rights to be outraged over anything, right? Not about anything specific like an inquisition, just generally.

[Boycott Bioware]

Medhia Nox wrote...
Yes, Jews and Muslims everywhere should be outraged at the use of the term Inquisition...

Why would the Jews and Muslims will be outraged with the term Inquisition? lol even the real Inquisition have nothing to do to the Jews and Muslims, but Christians, and the Templars, and the witches, and the heretics...

[satunnainen]

Since they unleashed their comedy writers in me3-citadel it is possible that they are going towards the "nobody expects the spanish inquisition" - route. I wonder if the bsn crowd would like that

[Iakus]

Itkovian wrote...


But how were they wrong?

I've always found it ludicrous how 10 minutes could invalidate 40 hours of excellent gameplay.

I mean really, no matter how much you may hate the ending, there's little doubt that the rest of the game is superior to ME2, including the storytelling.

And quite frankly, the journey being more important goes for pretty much every bloody game out there, especially RPGs. That's why we have 40+ hour games instead of the 5-10 hours most action games span these days.

Beyond that, I long for the day when not every thread is seen as an opportunity to make a snarky pointless remark about ME3's ending. ESPECIALLY in the bloody Dragon Age forums.

Destination's as important as the journey.  I don't play a choice based rpg to discover I was playing "The Incident at Owl Creek Bridge" the whole time.

I say players have every right to be nervous or suspicious of what Bioware has to present today.  Games aren't cheap, and we want to know if Bioware is still a brand worth following

[IanPolaris]

Qistina wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...
Yes, Jews and Muslims everywhere should be outraged at the use of the term Inquisition...

Why would the Jews and Muslims will be outraged with the term Inquisition? lol even the real Inquisition have nothing to do to the Jews and Muslims, but Christians, and the Templars, and the witches, and the heretics...

In Spain in the 15th century, there were a lot of "hidden" Jews and "hidden" Muslims that pretended to be Catholic during the day (or general society) but continued to practice their faith secretly.  Because they publically practiced Catholocism, both the Roman and Spanish Inquisitions ruled that they were heretics rather than heathans and the full weight of the Inquisition could be applied to them.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

Medhia Nox wrote...

Who really "hotly debates" the Inquisition in their day to day?

Too soon? Are we really saying it's "too soon" for the use of the term Inquisition?

While people may not 'hotly debate" the inquistion in their day to day, the centuries old bloodletting and abuses left deep and severe scares in Western Culture that have yet to heal.  Even using the term inquisition almost always implies a strongly negative connotation even today.

-Polaris

[David Gaider]

azarhal wrote...
Both Gaider and Chris posted tweets to the effect that they expect some people to overreact badly.

I don't know about "overreact badly".

I've been through this a number of times. A lot of fans will have built up an imaginary game in their head, based on where they hope it goes or assume it will go, and no matter how good the reveal could possibly be that also means that those imaginary DA3's are simultaneously eliminated. Every element they see means five other elements are now no longer possible and their loss is mourned. Some people get very bitter about that, perhaps without even being fully aware as to why.

Not to mention that some fans apparently expect "reveal" to mean "now we explain every single thing about the game and answer every question". That's unavoidable, and also leads to frustration (particularly after such a long wait-- though personally I will always compare that to the years of waiting fans went through prior to DA3... but I guess I'm just a hipster that way).

There will also be much squeeing and excitement, as well as a windstorm of new speculation. Which is fun in and of itself.

Modifié par David Gaider, 10 juin 2013 - 03:56 .

[Boycott Bioware]

IanPolaris wrote...
In Spain in the 15th century, there were a lot of "hidden" Jews and "hidden" Muslims that pretended to be Catholic during the day (or general society) but continued to practice their faith secretly. Because they publically practiced Catholocism, both the Roman and Spanish Inquisitions ruled that they were heretics rather than heathans and the full weight of the Inquisition could be applied to them.

-Polaris

Muslims fans may outraged if using the title "Crusade", but "Inquisition" have nothing to do with Muslims, it only happen in Christian world and authorized only in Christian world toward Christians. The one who could be offended are Christians, not Muslims or Jews

As what you described, those "hidden" Muslims and Jews are considered "Christians heretic" by the Church so Inquisition applied to them. It is a misunderstanding. But the Inquisition never have anything to do with Muslims and Jews, only on Christians.

[Itkovian]

iakus wrote...

Destination's as important as the journey.  I don't play a choice based rpg to discover I was playing "The Incident at Owl Creek Bridge" the whole time.

I say players have every right to be nervous or suspicious of what Bioware has to present today.  Games aren't cheap, and we want to know if Bioware is still a brand worth following

I understand people can have different expectations of what choice based RPGs can bring. But the situation you describe certainly wasn't the case in ME3 (especially with the extended cut... not that consequences of your choices were not already explored before the ending anyway), or any other Bioware RPGs that I know of.

As for the right, that's true, customers always have the right to doubt or suspect whatever they want. Whether that's justified is another matter, but they certainly have the right.

[Dave of Canada]

David Gaider wrote...

I've been through this a number of times. A lot of fans will have built up an imaginary game in their head, based on where they hope it goes or assume it will go, and no matter how good the reveal could possibly be that also means that those imaginary DA3's are simultaneously eliminated. Every element they see means five other elements are now no longer possible and their loss is mourned. Some people get very bitter about that, perhaps without even being fully aware as to why.

Is it wrong if I'd love to have my expectations crushed?

[IanPolaris]

Qistina wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...
In Spain in the 15th century, there were a lot of "hidden" Jews and "hidden" Muslims that pretended to be Catholic during the day (or general society) but continued to practice their faith secretly. Because they publically practiced Catholocism, both the Roman and Spanish Inquisitions ruled that they were heretics rather than heathans and the full weight of the Inquisition could be applied to them.

-Polaris

Muslims fans may outraged if using the title "Crusade", but "Inquisition" have nothing to do with Muslims, it only happen in Christian world and authorized only in Christian world toward Christians. The one who could be offended are Christians, not Muslims or Jews

Unless you are a Muslim or Jew pretending to be Christian in a nation deeply hostile to your faith.  This actually happened in the 15th and 16th centuries in Spain (in particular).  I also note that the impact of this is still widely felt even in our modern popular culture.

As what you described, those "hidden" Muslims and Jews are considered "Christians heretic" by the Church so Inquisition applied to them. It is a misunderstanding. But the Inquisition never have anything to do with Muslims and Jews, only on Christians.

It was not a 'misunderstanding'.  It was a deliberately 'liberal' reading of the law in order to seize more property for the state and church.  When the judges of the inquisition get to personally seize the assets of those that are accused of heresy, you can imagine how many verdicts of not-guilty were ever returned......and especially when confession under torture was perfect legal (and even preferred).

-Polaris

Edit PS:  It was a deliberate 'liberal' reading of Canon law to attack both Jews and Muslims (esp  wealthy ones) in Spain and Italy.  There was no misunderstanding about it.  The inquisition was used to target Muslims and Jews in Europe.

Modifié par IanPolaris, 10 juin 2013 - 04:04 .

[The dead fish]

Hum.

[Boycott Bioware]

IanPolaris wrote...
It was not a 'misunderstanding'. It was a deliberately 'liberal' reading of the law in order to seize more property for the state and church. When the judges of the inquisition get to personally seize the assets of those that are accused of heresy, you can imagine how many verdicts of not-guilty were ever returned......and especially when confession under torture was perfect legal (and even preferred).

-Polaris

Edit PS: It was a deliberate 'liberal' reading of Canon law to attack both Jews and Muslims (esp wealthy ones) in Spain and Italy. There was no misunderstanding about it. The inquisition was used to target Muslims and Jews in Europe.

Maybe because i am not Spanish, i come from somewhere else, so i don't feel any sensitivity about "Inquisition", i will look at it next time...

and from what i know and feel strongly DA:I is parallel with Templar Inquisition in France right after the Crusades where the Templars are accused against the Church, practice witchcraft, homosexuality, spitting at the Cross ect ect ect....the story about Jaques the Molay...

[Nole]

frostajulie wrote...

I don't think Bioware Gives A **** TBH.

And they shouldn't.

Seriously, when your fans go with everything against you for one "mistake" (ME3 Ending), you know those fans are not worth it.

[LinksOcarina]

Well find out soon, won't we?

Either way, I will be watching from a venue of neutrality regardless.

[ianvillan]

David Gaider wrote...

azarhal wrote...
Both Gaider and Chris posted tweets to the effect that they expect some people to overreact badly.

I don't know about "overreact badly".

I've been through this a number of times. A lot of fans will have built up an imaginary game in their head, based on where they hope it goes or assume it will go, and no matter how good the reveal could possibly be that also means that those imaginary DA3's are simultaneously eliminated. Every element they see means five other elements are now no longer possible and their loss is mourned. Some people get very bitter about that, perhaps without even being fully aware as to why.

Not to mention that some fans apparently expect "reveal" to mean "now we explain every single thing about the game and answer every question". That's unavoidable, and also leads to frustration (particularly after such a long wait-- though personally I will always compare that to the years of waiting fans went through prior to DA3... but I guess I'm just a hipster that way).

There will also be much squeeing and excitement, as well as a windstorm of new speculation. Which is fun in and of itself.

Chris Priestly wrote

Yet, here you are being a negative dink.

We care. We care a lot.

I  think we know we will not please everyone becasue not everyone wants the same 100% of things. However, we are making Dragon Age Inquisiton the best game we feel it can be. Hopefully that will please most fans, but to assume that it will please ALL fans is a bit naive.

I understand what you are saying but we heard almost the exact same words spoken before the release of DA2 and was continuously told we don't have all information or cant handle change and that DA2 is the best game you could make.

I will be looking what Origins systems will be returning in DAI and how much DA2 systems will be returning and I would like the information to be released early instead of Bioware hiding it and telling us we don't have all the details and should wait.

[Boycott Bioware]

@Ian Polaris

This is from wiki
http://en.wikipedia....Knights_Templar

Since Orlais is similar to France i strongly say it will be similar or parallel with Templar Inquisition in France, and thus makes Bioware is Illuminati muahahaha!

Anyway, there are other games with similar theme such as Knight of the Temple,

http://en.wikipedia....nfernal_Crusade

it is about the popular pop culture about the mystery surrounding the Inquisition of Templars, it is so called because of King of France want to steal Templars treasures so he created the false accusation on the Templar, this is pop culture

There are other similar game with the same thing...i will be disappointed if it turn out to be the same...

[IanPolaris]

Qistina wrote...

@Ian Polaris

This is from wiki
http://en.wikipedia....Knights_Templar

Since Orlais is similar to France i strongly say it will be similar or parallel with Templar Inquisition in France, and thus makes Bioware is Illuminati muahahaha!

Anyway, there are other games with similar theme such as Knight of the Temple,

http://en.wikipedia....nfernal_Crusade

it is about the popular pop culture about the mystery surrounding the Inquisition of Templars, it is so called because of King of France want to steal Templars treasures so he created the false accusation on the Templar, this is pop culture

There are other similar game with the same thing...i will be disappointed if it turn out to be the same...

Maybe and maybe not, but if you have to cite a wiki url entry to show why a name choice isn't emotionally problematic, then the name choice is probably emotionally problematic.  Right now I am concerned that this is a potentially large unforced error on Bioware's part that may prevent a lot of people from even trying the game.

-Polaris

Edit PS:  It's the term "Inquisition" without modifier that's a real issue because the word has such negative and emotional connotations to this day.  IIRC in the other titles you cite, the word/concept is (very deliberately) watered down.

Modifié par IanPolaris, 10 juin 2013 - 04:28 .

[Ianamus]

IanPolaris wrote...

However, "Inquisition" has severe and polarizing emotional baggage both in real life (esp considering RL Spanish and Roman Inquisitions of the 15th to 17th centuries) and the game as well.

This is why I feel Bioware was foolish for choosing this name.

-Polaris

And I was thinking of getting my great uncle Dragon Age: Inquisition for his 565th Birthday  I'd better warn him to avoid it then, don't want it bringing back any unpleasant memories or emotinal baggange. 

[Little Princess Peach]

I think Bioware knows they can't please us all, we all have different tastes.
But I think we should at least keep civil and open minded even if it turns out rather negative.

[Boycott Bioware]

IanPolaris wrote...
Maybe and maybe not, but if you have to cite a wiki url entry to show why a name choice isn't emotionally problematic, then the name choice is probably emotionally problematic. Right now I am concerned that this is a potentially large unforced error on Bioware's part that may prevent a lot of people from even trying the game.

-Polaris

Yes, that is why they taken away the title "Exodus"

The first is "Origin", then "Exodus", then "Inquisition"...i don't know you guys are familiar with conspiracy theory or not, but for people like me, i say the title is obvious....next it would be DA:"New Order" one world government of secular

Modifié par Qistina, 10 juin 2013 - 04:40 .

[DragonRacer]

David Gaider wrote...

azarhal wrote...
Both Gaider and Chris posted tweets to the effect that they expect some people to overreact badly.

I don't know about "overreact badly".

I've been through this a number of times. A lot of fans will have built up an imaginary game in their head, based on where they hope it goes or assume it will go, and no matter how good the reveal could possibly be that also means that those imaginary DA3's are simultaneously eliminated. Every element they see means five other elements are now no longer possible and their loss is mourned. Some people get very bitter about that, perhaps without even being fully aware as to why.

Not to mention that some fans apparently expect "reveal" to mean "now we explain every single thing about the game and answer every question". That's unavoidable, and also leads to frustration (particularly after such a long wait-- though personally I will always compare that to the years of waiting fans went through prior to DA3... but I guess I'm just a hipster that way).

There will also be much squeeing and excitement, as well as a windstorm of new speculation. Which is fun in and of itself.

The bolded is what I'm truly looking forward to. I've not frequented this particular board much since there's not been much to talk about in regards to DA:I. Hoping to see some cool stuff to change that.

And hopefully the board won't go too feral, but I wouldn't be surprised either. I still fear dipping a toe into the ME3 story board. Have pretty much abandoned it in favor of the ME3 MP board at this point. 

[IanPolaris]

EJ107 wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

However, "Inquisition" has severe and polarizing emotional baggage both in real life (esp considering RL Spanish and Roman Inquisitions of the 15th to 17th centuries) and the game as well.

This is why I feel Bioware was foolish for choosing this name.

-Polaris

And I was thinking of getting my great uncle Dragon Age: Inquisition for his 565th Birthday  I'd better warn him to avoid it then, don't want it bringing back any unpleasant memories or emotinal baggange. 

You are arguing a general from a specific.  Don't.

-Polaris

[The dead fish]

They didn't even show anything and people are already a little defensive, complaining about those " who will be complaining. " That's funny.

It's like everyone is telling : " winter is coming " with a facial expression darkened.

This doesn't seem to be a part of a positive behavior or " cool stuff "either.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 10 juin 2013 - 04:48 .