481 réponses à ce sujet

[Nefario]

BasilKarlo wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

BasilKarlo wrote...

Why would I be arguing that it's not in-engine footage? That's what I've been saying it is. In-engine means means it wasn't made in-game. If it was made in-game then Gaider would have said that. The fact that they had to make this trailer using the engine and not the game itself means it's not reflective the game's actual graphics.

Whaaaat?

The GAME uses the ENGINE.

A trailer made in the game is identical to a trailer made in the engine, because the only way a game makes graphical representation (outside of pre-rendered scenes) is within the engine.


The two terms are analogous. The only difference between in-engine and in-game is that the in-engine scene likely won't appear, in and of itself, in the game. It is absolutely a graphical representation of how the game will look.

No. No no no.
The engine can be used exactly like animation software. If they could have made the trailer look this good entirely in-game then they would have done so. And if the actual game looked this good already then they would not be 16 months away from release. It's naive to think the actual game looks like this trailer.

So... do you consider cutscenes in previous DA games - those that take part in conversations or otherwise - to be "the actual game" or not? Are you using "game" as synonymous with "gameplay"? Because if not, what would "If they could have made the trailer look this good in-game then they would have done so" mean? It says it's actual game footage, Gaider said it was game assets used in-engine... so what's the difference, in your mind, exactly?

I don't even understand what you mean when you doubt the actual game will look as good as the trailer. You don't think animations will be as detailed, textures will look as good... what? Honestly, as far as graphical quality and level of detail goes, the DA:I trailer didn't look any more impressive than the Battlefield 4 gameplay I've seen. I mean sure, the DA:I trailer has better art direction than the BF4 gameplay, but that's because the DA:I trailer is all cutscenes. Which is plainly obvious to anyone even vaguely familiar with the series.

[addiction21]

BasilKarlo wrote...


No. No no no.
The engine can be used exactly like animation software. If they could have made the trailer look this good entirely in-game then they would have done so. And if the actual game looked this good already then they would not be 16 months away from release. It's naive to think the actual game looks like this trailer.

So Gaider was lying? These are not "in-game assets done in-engine?"

And unless you are about to show us concrete evidence why the game is delayed you should just stop using it to justify your every complaint.

[Steppenwolf]

addiction21 wrote...

BasilKarlo wrote...


No. No no no.
The engine can be used exactly like animation software. If they could have made the trailer look this good entirely in-game then they would have done so. And if the actual game looked this good already then they would not be 16 months away from release. It's naive to think the actual game looks like this trailer.

So Gaider was lying? These are not "in-game assets done in-engine?"

And unless you are about to show us concrete evidence why the game is delayed you should just stop using it to justify your every complaint.

Why can't he have been lying? BioWare lies all the time. Priestly admitted that lying was part of his job.
And what do you mean concrete evidence? The game is delayed. I said I thought it was going to be delayed because they kept saying it was coming calendar 2013/Fall 2013 and hadn't shown anything. I never claimed I had insider knowledge or supernatural abilities.

[AtreiyaN7]

BasilKarlo wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

BasilKarlo wrote...

Why would I be arguing that it's not in-engine footage? That's what I've been saying it is. In-engine means means it wasn't made in-game. If it was made in-game then Gaider would have said that. The fact that they had to make this trailer using the engine and not the game itself means it's not reflective the game's actual graphics.

Whaaaat?

The GAME uses the ENGINE.

A trailer made in the game is identical to a trailer made in the engine, because the only way a game makes graphical representation (outside of pre-rendered scenes) is within the engine.


The two terms are analogous. The only difference between in-engine and in-game is that the in-engine scene likely won't appear, in and of itself, in the game. It is absolutely a graphical representation of how the game will look.

No. No no no.
The engine can be used exactly like animation software. If they could have made the trailer look this good entirely in-game then they would have done so. And if the actual game looked this good already then they would not be 16 months away from release. It's naive to think the actual game looks like this trailer.

Your bizarro logic seems to consist of "If it looks this good, then gee, they should be done with it this year instead of pushing the game back to 2014 - ergo, it can't possibly look this good and have been done in-game." If the trailer was created in-engine - regardless of whether or not it was done in-game - then I think that it is still representative of the overall level of quality people should be able to expect in the finished game.

And frankly, you only needed to watch the in-game footage from Battlefield 4 during E3 coverage today (I'm in Hawaii, so it's still currently Monday here  ) to realize that a game created in the Frostbite 3 engine really CAN look as good as the trailer did (EDIT: and actually, the BF4 footage looked better than the DA3 trailer imo). They had 64 people playing in some sort multiplayer map, and it was pretty impressive graphics-wise.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 11 juin 2013 - 07:02 .

[addiction21]

BasilKarlo wrote...


Why can't he have been lying? BioWare lies all the time. Priestly admitted that lying was part of his job.
And what do you mean concrete evidence? The game is delayed. I said I thought it was going to be delayed because they kept saying it was coming calendar 2013/Fall 2013 and hadn't shown anything. I never claimed I had insider knowledge or supernatural abilities.

Well then why are you quoting a liar? Oh wait because you think it proves you right and if it doesn't then well "BioWare lies" Always covering those bases so you can be right.

Did David Gaider say lying was his job? He is one of the most blunt developers around and is not in marketing, PR, or the community section so I don't know what Preistly has to do with this other then to deflect you actually answering the question.

and back to this.

addiction21 wrote...


In-game assets rendered in engine


Blur

[AlanC9]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...
Your bizarro logic seems to consist of "If it looks this good, then gee, they should be done with it this year instead of pushing the game back to 2014 - ergo, it can't possibly look this good and have been done in-game." If the trailer was created in-engine - regardless of whether or not it was done in-game - then I think that it is still representative of the overall level of quality people should be able to expect in the finished game. 

And frankly, you only needed to watch the in-game footage from Battlefield 4 during E3 coverage today (I'm in Hawaii, so it's still currently Monday here  ) to realize that a game created in the Frostbite 3 engine really CAN look as good as the trailer did (EDIT: and actually, the BF4 footage looked better than the DA3 trailer imo). They had 64 people playing in some sort multiplayer map, and it was pretty impressive graphics-wise.

Yeah,  I watched that too. I concur; the BF4 footage was a bit better than the trailer. And the argument's preposterous.

But once again, that ol' feeling of blithe indifference is coming over me -- same one I had when BasilKarlo was screaming about how the game was going to be delayed, delayed I tell you! 

Let's say the finished game doesn't look quite as good as the trailer. So fracking what?

Modifié par AlanC9, 11 juin 2013 - 07:21 .

[Nethalf]

U know what? New Varric looks like Big Ben Dude from ME3 trailer.


New Varric:


Big Ben Dude:

[Sable Rhapsody]

Bianca > Incisor sniper rifle.

[Boycott Bioware]

Nethalf wrote...

U know what? New Varric looks like Big Ben Dude from ME3 trailer.


New Varric:

I don't like

The original is cuter and dwarf looking...this look like short human, and in other angle looks like Loghain's small  brother

[Dieb]

Well the trailer really didn't show too much we didn't expect, I suppose. It was nice and promising, but not very surprising.

At least my two favourite characters will re-appear, in whatever way. Sten & Merril are rather unrealistic, Alistair would be nice and is to be expected given his popularity, but both Morrigan & Varric are a must and pretty much sell me this game.

Am I part of the problem for saying that before having even played it? Maybe. But I already own the first two games of a trilogy, so seriously, who am I kidding?

Modifié par Baelrahn, 11 juin 2013 - 08:00 .

[Battlebloodmage]

I like the improved graphic, part of me was expected a bit more, but it seems to be pretty awesome overall. Varric seems like he could be a LI if he's part of the group, so maybe they try to make him a bit more generic LI looking.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Baelrahn wrote...
Am I part of the problem for saying that before having even played it? Maybe. But I already own the first two games of a trilogy, so seriously, who am I kidding?

LOL, I'm there with you.  I preordered both DA:O and DA2.  Loved DA:O, and despite its many flaws, I love DA2 too.  So when the DA:I trailer has two of my favorite characters and an epic war, I find it hard to say no.

[thebigbad1013]

I was already excited about this game simply because it was another Dragon Age game but the trailer just made me even more excited.

Wouldn't mind if this next year or so would be kind enough to pass quickly.

[Cheylus]

Good:
- Some "news" in a one-minute trailer. 10 months after the letter of Mark Darrah, 10 months after nothing.
- Art direction is still Dragon Age-ish.
- The best characters are coming back.
- Bigger scale, epicness.
- Graphics look good, better than previous BioWare games.
- A bold move: this is a trailer for Dragon Age fans only. If you don't know anything about Dragon Age, you won't be excited at all by all the characters you've seen.
- I like the eerie lighting-greenish effect sometimes. I loved that in Legacy, it seems they will keep it.

Bad:
- Graphics don't look good enough. I've seen better in a lot of other ingame footage vids yesterday.
- No real gameplay. I've seen countless teasers with no actual gameplay in it. I'm not teased.
- Fan service. Every one is happy to see Varric (best character of DA2, the only character in DA2 who is not a child); everyone is happy to see Morrigan (best character in DA:O); everyone is happy to see a dragon; everyone is happy to see Wardens, even dead; everyone is happy to see a Kossith; everyone is happy to see Cassandra).
- Please tell me we won't have to gather armies to defeat an ancient evil. I've already done that last year.

My excitment-o-meter is 34%.

[AdamJames]

Faith... lies in ashes.

Sacred Ashes?

[AdamJames]

Cheylus wrote...
- Graphics don't look good enough. I've seen better in a lot of other ingame footage vids yesterday.
 

Geez the graphics were good enough to make people think the trailer was pre-rendered! How are you not satisfied!?

Modifié par AdamJames, 11 juin 2013 - 09:07 .

[FDrage]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Bianca > Incisor sniper rifle.

Noo Nooo Nooo .. Heretic ...

"Definition: 'Love' is making a shot to the knees of a target 120 kilometers away using an Aratech sniper rifle with a tri-light scope." ..

On topic: IN regards to "Seekers against Wardens" not sure that this is the case from the trailer. 1st you see a castle with what appears to be "griffen" statues and and explosion. 2nd you see a Qunari (or what appears to be one) watching some tower fire / explosion. What the Qunarii wanting to know more about the Warden in DA:O might well be they decided to take the Warden out ... Only after that do you see Cassandra doing the "charge" motion with the background being wildly "on fire" .. could well Seekers & Wardens against Qunari invasion.

But well that is exactly what a "1st trailer" is about talking points without "showing a lot". one could say it being controversial on purpose ... like the "KIA teaser trailer" for ME2.

[Saraphial]

The thing that the trailer has had me the most curious about is where exactly the wardens fit in in all the chaos. We know about the templars, the mages, and the Qunari from DA2, but the trailer implies heavy inclusion of the wardens as well. For example: the keep that was being breached was obviously a warden keep, plus the huge battle scene in which Cassandra is leading the seekers and the veil to the fade tears, takes place in Warden territory, evidenced by all the griffon statues, etc.

What do you guys think, any speculation?

(Sorry if this was already mentioned, I was too lazy to comb through the rest of the thread.)

[Cheylus]

AdamJames wrote...

Cheylus wrote...
- Graphics don't look good enough. I've seen better in a lot of other ingame footage vids yesterday.
 

Geez the graphics were good enough to make people think the trailer was pre-rendered! How are you not satisfied!?

"Actual game footage" (if one can't read, one can't see the difference between ingame footage and CGI imo), the rain effects and textures on the Kossith, Varric's hair, trees, smoke, particle effects, destruction, Cassandra's face...

If you know what Frostbite can do on PC and if you don't play on ps3 or Xbox360, you can't seriously take that as a "CGI". BioWare was late, graphics-wise, in DA2 and ME2/3 in my opinion. To put it harshly: BioWare is not used to make beautiful games, even if the art direction is sometimes over the top. BioWare fans are not used to beautiful games in the "amazing engine" sense.
Frostbite 3 is a huge jump, but it's not overwhelming to me on DAI. I don't want to make comparisons, but I've seen a lot of ingame footage looking better than this.

Modifié par Cheylus, 11 juin 2013 - 09:23 .

[Ross42899]

The Trailer Looks great so far. Nice to see Varric, Cassandra and Morigan in the Trailer. I hope they will be squadmates in the new game. Was a bit surprised by Morrigans look.

But what is the Husk doing there?

[AdamJames]

Cheylus wrote...

AdamJames wrote...

Cheylus wrote...
- Graphics don't look good enough. I've seen better in a lot of other ingame footage vids yesterday.
 

Geez the graphics were good enough to make people think the trailer was pre-rendered! How are you not satisfied!?

"Actual game footage" (if one can't read, one can't see the difference between ingame footage and CGI imo), the rain effects and textures on the Kossith, Varric's hair, trees, smoke, particle effects, destruction, Cassandra's face...

If you know what Frostbite can do on PC and if you don't play on ps3 or Xbox360, you can't seriously take that as a "CGI". BioWare was late, graphics-wise, in DA2 and ME2/3 in my opinion. To put it harshly: BioWare is not used to make beautiful games, even if the art direction is sometimes over the top. BioWare fans are not used to beautiful games in the "amazing engine" sense.
Frostbite 3 is a huge jump, but it's not overwhelming to me on DAI. I don't want to make comparisons, but I've seen a lot of ingame footage looking better than this.

Ok, well I guess keep holding Bioware to a high standard then. Can't hurt. Me, I'd be perfectly fine if Inquisition came out looking just like what we saw in the trailer.

[Lotion Soronarr]

I predict one thing. People will be dissapointed.

No matte how the story ends, poeple will shout betrayl!

If everoyne becomes a mage - betrayl!
If all demons are forever destroyed - betrayl!
If mages win and are free without consequences- betrayl!
If templars win and lock up mages - betrayl!
If you can unite everyone with the power of friendship - betrayl!
If you can't unite everyone with the power of friendship - betrayl!

[Allan Schumacher]

BasilKarlo wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

It's totally accurate.

I never said they were in the game. I said they were rendered in real time. That's what Filament asked about.

Rendered in real time doesn't even mean anything. That's not an actual term. Cutscenes are either CGI or they're in-game. What we saw was not in-game.

This is incorrect.  Real-time rendering most definitely is a real term, and it's exceptionally important, because games run at real time.  Blur trailers do not.  They use the opposite of real-time rendering: pre-rendering.

Full, pre-rendered videos like a Blur trailer take hours (if not days) to render the 60/90/120 second trailer that you see, which completely overlooks the 100+ man months of work that goes into actually creating the scenes and assets.

To use your words "Cutscenes are either CGI or they're in game."  If you equate CGI with the types of things that Blur does, then our trailer was not CGI.

Our trailer was "in engine" in that, it was DA3 assets placed inside the Frostbite engine within existing DA3 levels, and people loading up the game and moving around the camera, creating cinematic sequences, and the like, for the intent of capturing a video for demonstration.

If you were to draw the closest analogue to what the trailer was, it'd be the in game cinematics from DAO and DA2.  The only hesitation one might put on "in game" is that upon playing the game at release, someone might go "Hey, where's that scene of the Qunari slowly turning around?  I didn't see that in my game!"  You might not see a scene that actually has Cassandra stabbing daggers into tables, and you might not come across a scene where Varric is looking over some dead bodies.


As for David's "Gameplay" it's also important to note that even Dragon Age 2 had different levels of detail for its characters depending on whether or not you were in a cutscene/conversation or not.  As for different levels of fidelity based on hardware, Dragon Age Origns also had that (most cloth and pretty much all cloth physics was cut out of the console versions).

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 11 juin 2013 - 10:03 .

[Herr Uhl]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

You might not see a scene that actually has Cassandra stabbing daggers into tables

I want her to stab several tables. Stabbing inanimate things is what she does best.