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DA: Inquisition trailer "Fires above" discussion thread

Débuté par Iron Star , juin 10 2013 08:46

481 réponses à ce sujet

#201
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
Posté 11 juin 2013 - 05:15

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Filament wrote...

Harumph. It seems this matter will be eternally ambiguous. That won't stop Karlo from proclaiming his assumption actually meant something if he ends up being right, though.


Aww, I love being remembered.



BasilKarlo wrote...

What consumer would ever agree with that? That's PR nonsense of the worst kind. If a trailer claims to be actual game footage then it had better be footage of the actual game. Otherwise it's false advertising.


Well, take a look at most of the E3 press conferences. Each likely had several trailers rendered with the in-game engine but aren't necessarily part of the game.

The only ones I can remember off the top of my head are ALL of the EA sports ones.

And the MEdgeR one (Mirror's Edge Reboot).

Modifié par EntropicAngel, 11 juin 2013 - 05:15 .

#202
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
Posté 11 juin 2013 - 05:17

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BasilKarlo wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Filament wrote...

Wut. So now it's pre-rendered using the frostbite engine? How many ways can we think of to obfuscate such a simple statement, god. Will my sufficiently powerful computer render said actions in real time using the game engine or not? I don't see how this question can possibly be obfuscated further.


No, no. Ignore them. It's actually rendered in real time with the engine. Not pre-rendered.

Basically like playing a cutscene. The one in DA ][ where Flemeth saves Hawke at the beginning, say.


Except that's not accurate at all. If that were the case then they would be telling us it was in-game footage, not in-engine footage. Scenes like the ones you're referring to are in-game cut scenes. Stuff like what we saw from Bioware and Quantic Dream and such today are in-engine, meaning not made in the game.


It's totally accurate.

I never said they were in the game. I said they were rendered in real time. That's what Filament asked about.

#203
Steppenwolf
Posté 11 juin 2013 - 05:18

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EntropicAngel wrote...

BasilKarlo wrote...

What consumer would ever agree with that? That's PR nonsense of the worst kind. If a trailer claims to be actual game footage then it had better be footage of the actual game. Otherwise it's false advertising.


Well, take a look at most of the E3 press conferences. Each likely had several trailers rendered with the in-game engine but aren't necessarily part of the game.

The only ones I can remember off the top of my head are ALL of the EA sports ones.

And the MEdgeR one (Mirror's Edge Reboot).


So that makes it somehow more truthful to claim it's actual game footage even though it's not?
"Everybody else was doing it!"

#204
Steppenwolf
Posté 11 juin 2013 - 05:20

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EntropicAngel wrote...

It's totally accurate.

I never said they were in the game. I said they were rendered in real time. That's what Filament asked about.


Rendered in real time doesn't even mean anything. That's not an actual term. Cutscenes are either CGI or they're in-game. What we saw was not in-game.

#205
Guest_Puddi III_*
Posté 11 juin 2013 - 05:20

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Expecting trailer/promo footage to show up exactly as shown is pretty unreasonable, as that more often than not does not happen. It annoys some people, for sure (Jimmy comes to mind?), but I have no problem with the fact that the Arishok fight did not go exactly like the trailer. Granted, I have a problem with how it did go, but not because it wasn't like the trailer.

Knowing that, I would not take "actual game footage" to be any such promise, but rather, as EA said, an assertion that this is the capability of the game's real-time engine.

#206
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Posté 11 juin 2013 - 05:23

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BasilKarlo wrote...

So that makes it somehow more truthful to claim it's actual game footage even though it's not?
"Everybody else was doing it!"


"Game footage" means rendered in real time. As I said, it has nothing to do with whether it actually happens in-game. That's just how the term works when it comes to trailers.

BasilKarlo wrote...

Rendered in real time doesn't even mean anything. That's not an actual term. Cutscenes are either CGI or they're in-game. What we saw was not in-game.


What?

The purpose of rendering in real time is to show that's how the game will look when you play it.

That's the ONLY reason to do it, otherwise everyone would have CGI.

Modifié par EntropicAngel, 11 juin 2013 - 05:23 .

#207
Steppenwolf
Posté 11 juin 2013 - 05:27

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EntropicAngel wrote...

BasilKarlo wrote...

So that makes it somehow more truthful to claim it's actual game footage even though it's not?
"Everybody else was doing it!"


"Game footage" means rendered in real time. As I said, it has nothing to do with whether it actually happens in-game. That's just how the term works when it comes to trailers.

BasilKarlo wrote...

Rendered in real time doesn't even mean anything. That's not an actual term. Cutscenes are either CGI or they're in-game. What we saw was not in-game.


What?

The purpose of rendering in real time is to show that's how the game will look when you play it.

That's the ONLY reason to do it, otherwise everyone would have CGI.


What the hell are you talking about? The trailer wasn't rendered in-game. Gaider confirmed it. It wasn't a "real time rendered" trailer even by your definition.

Filament wrote...

Knowing that, I would not take "actual
game footage" to be any such promise, but rather, as EA said, an
assertion that this is the capability of the game's real-time
engine.


So they get to say every game they make will look as good as that because eventually some games might look that good?

#208
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
Posté 11 juin 2013 - 05:31

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BasilKarlo wrote...

What the hell are you talking about? The trailer wasn't rendered in-game. Gaider confirmed it. It wasn't a "real time rendered" trailer even by your definition.


Where did Gaider say otherwise? Link, please.

#209
Guest_Puddi III_*
Posté 11 juin 2013 - 05:31

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EntropicAngel wrote...

BasilKarlo wrote...

Rendered in real time doesn't even mean anything. That's not an actual term. Cutscenes are either CGI or they're in-game. What we saw was not in-game.


What?

The purpose of rendering in real time is to show that's how the game will look when you play it.

That's the ONLY reason to do it, otherwise everyone would have CGI.

I see where he's basing this baseless assumption on now. lol. The comment that technically it's CGI-- which I took entirely differently, to mean that even in-game footage would be technically "computer generated imagery." Moving on...

#210
Steppenwolf
Posté 11 juin 2013 - 05:33

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EntropicAngel wrote...

BasilKarlo wrote...

What the hell are you talking about? The trailer wasn't rendered in-game. Gaider confirmed it. It wasn't a "real time rendered" trailer even by your definition.


Where did Gaider say otherwise? Link, please.



http://social.biowar...5776/7#16841960

It's right in this thread.

#211
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Posté 11 juin 2013 - 05:36

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David Gaider wrote...

It's in-game assets and in-engine. Generally, when people refer to a "CGI trailer", they mean something that was created by an animation studio-- usually not on a game engine at all (such as stuff Blur makes). Technically it's all CGI.

If that seems like a big jump in fidelity... well, it is. New engines will do that. :)

I suggest remaining skeptical until you see gameplay footage. Healthier, I imagine.


Hmm. I see how you could argue that it's pre-rendered. I don't imagine it's any more pre-rendered than recording a video of a cutscene, though--as I said, the entire purpose of them saying "game footage" is to tell the audience that this is what in-game cutscenes will look like.

So let me get this straight. What precisely are you arguing? That it is NOT engine footage? That it is NOT rendered in real time? Something else?

#212
Guest_Puddi III_*
Posté 11 juin 2013 - 05:38

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His interpretation hinges on an ambiguous interpretation of what Gaider said, and the opening statement of the trailer being an outright lie. So take it for what you will. He could be "right again" or he could not.

#213
Nefario
Posté 11 juin 2013 - 05:39

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BasilKarlo wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

BasilKarlo wrote...

What the hell are you talking about? The trailer wasn't rendered in-game. Gaider confirmed it. It wasn't a "real time rendered" trailer even by your definition.


Where did Gaider say otherwise? Link, please.



http://social.biowar...5776/7#16841960

It's right in this thread.


All that really means is that the trailer wasn't gameplay, though. Which was obvious. By that definition, dialogue sequences aren't rendered "in-game" either.

#214
Meatbaggins
Posté 11 juin 2013 - 05:47

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BasilKarlo wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

BasilKarlo wrote...

What the hell are you talking about? The trailer wasn't rendered in-game. Gaider confirmed it. It wasn't a "real time rendered" trailer even by your definition.


Where did Gaider say otherwise? Link, please.



http://social.biowar...5776/7#16841960

It's right in this thread.


He said pretty much the opposite of what you're saying.

#215
Ihatebadgames
Posté 11 juin 2013 - 05:49

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Where some people see the Seekers attacking the Wardens,I think they are coming to the rescue.Also just to be diffrent I think the battle is at the ending and it's the Warden or Hawk that's dead and wraped in a shroud.(They don't have plastic body bags.)

#216
Silverfox4
Posté 11 juin 2013 - 05:51

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iPoohCupCakes wrote...

Image IPB
I hate cassandra's new look.


QFT.  I hate her new look too.  I was hoping for a LI in DAI, but now I get Coraline from the animated movie with a face that could open Mr. Putersmitch's safe.

#217
RobRam10
Posté 11 juin 2013 - 05:54

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Silverfox4 wrote...

iPoohCupCakes wrote...

Image IPB
I hate cassandra's new look.


QFT.  I hate her new look too.  I was hoping for a LI in DAI, but now I get Coraline from the animated movie with a face that could open Mr. Putersmitch's safe.

Considering that all character looks are subject to change...

Modifié par RobRam10, 11 juin 2013 - 05:55 .

#218
Steppenwolf
Posté 11 juin 2013 - 06:00

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EntropicAngel wrote...

Hmm. I see how you could argue that it's pre-rendered. I don't imagine it's any more pre-rendered than recording a video of a cutscene, though--as I said, the entire purpose of them saying "game footage" is to tell the audience that this is what in-game cutscenes will look like.

So let me get this straight. What precisely are you arguing? That it is NOT engine footage? That it is NOT rendered in real time? Something else?


Why would I be arguing that it's not in-engine footage? That's what I've been saying it is. In-engine means means it wasn't made in-game. If it was made in-game then Gaider would have said that. The fact that they had to make this trailer using the engine and not the game itself means it's not reflective the game's actual graphics.

#219
addiction21
Posté 11 juin 2013 - 06:07

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BasilKarlo wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Hmm. I see how you could argue that it's pre-rendered. I don't imagine it's any more pre-rendered than recording a video of a cutscene, though--as I said, the entire purpose of them saying "game footage" is to tell the audience that this is what in-game cutscenes will look like.

So let me get this straight. What precisely are you arguing? That it is NOT engine footage? That it is NOT rendered in real time? Something else?


Why would I be arguing that it's not in-engine footage? That's what I've been saying it is. In-engine means means it wasn't made in-game. If it was made in-game then Gaider would have said that. The fact that they had to make this trailer using the engine and not the game itself means it's not reflective the game's actual graphics.


In-game assets rendered in engine


Blur

#220
Wentletrap
Posté 11 juin 2013 - 06:09

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MWImexico wrote...

"none shall be untouched by the fires above"



Bah, should have been:  "none shall be LEFT untouched by the fires above."   It's an adjective! 


Otherwise, enjoyed the trailer.  Excited about the new engine!

#221
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
Posté 11 juin 2013 - 06:09

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BasilKarlo wrote...

Why would I be arguing that it's not in-engine footage? That's what I've been saying it is. In-engine means means it wasn't made in-game. If it was made in-game then Gaider would have said that. The fact that they had to make this trailer using the engine and not the game itself means it's not reflective the game's actual graphics.


Whaaaat?

The GAME uses the ENGINE.

A trailer made in the game is identical to a trailer made in the engine, because the only way a game makes graphical representation (outside of pre-rendered scenes) is within the engine.


The two terms are analogous. The only difference between in-engine and in-game is that the in-engine scene likely won't appear, in and of itself, in the game. It is absolutely a graphical representation of how the game will look.

#222
Ihatebadgames
Posté 11 juin 2013 - 06:17

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I think Cassandras new look might be ok.The pic is taken from the battle,and nobody looks good covered in mud,grime and blood.(It's a DA game there will be Blood,lots and lots of blood.)

#223
Guest_Puddi III_*
Posté 11 juin 2013 - 06:20

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He's also accusing Priestly of lying now that I look at it, since Priestly directly said it's not CGI in an earlier quote. And Gaider was responding to my question directly of whether it would be "pre-rendered or frostbite" so the use of the term "engine" is understandable in perfectly non-conspiratorial terms. Since predictions are all the rage now, I predict in this case either Nostradamus will be right and Priestly and the trailer text were lying (unlikely), or Nostradamus will be wrong and claim his interpretation was still right, so then Gaider must have been lying. His interpretation being wrong and none of them lying is simply not an option. Yep, definitely the win-win situation addiction mentioned.

Modifié par Filament, 11 juin 2013 - 06:21 .

#224
Milady
Posté 11 juin 2013 - 06:21

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EntropicAngel wrote...

BasilKarlo wrote...

Why would I be arguing that it's not in-engine footage? That's what I've been saying it is. In-engine means means it wasn't made in-game. If it was made in-game then Gaider would have said that. The fact that they had to make this trailer using the engine and not the game itself means it's not reflective the game's actual graphics.


Whaaaat?

The GAME uses the ENGINE.

A trailer made in the game is identical to a trailer made in the engine, because the only way a game makes graphical representation (outside of pre-rendered scenes) is within the engine.


The two terms are analogous. The only difference between in-engine and in-game is that the in-engine scene likely won't appear, in and of itself, in the game. It is absolutely a graphical representation of how the game will look.


^This made me hyped so much, that you can't even imagine. If that is a decent presentation of how in-game footage would like then.. then.. Image IPB

#225
Steppenwolf
Posté 11 juin 2013 - 06:25

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EntropicAngel wrote...

BasilKarlo wrote...

Why would I be arguing that it's not in-engine footage? That's what I've been saying it is. In-engine means means it wasn't made in-game. If it was made in-game then Gaider would have said that. The fact that they had to make this trailer using the engine and not the game itself means it's not reflective the game's actual graphics.


Whaaaat?

The GAME uses the ENGINE.

A trailer made in the game is identical to a trailer made in the engine, because the only way a game makes graphical representation (outside of pre-rendered scenes) is within the engine.


The two terms are analogous. The only difference between in-engine and in-game is that the in-engine scene likely won't appear, in and of itself, in the game. It is absolutely a graphical representation of how the game will look.


No. No no no.
The engine can be used exactly like animation software. If they could have made the trailer look this good entirely in-game then they would have done so. And if the actual game looked this good already then they would not be 16 months away from release. It's naive to think the actual game looks like this trailer.
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