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[wolfhowwl]

Did Xil finally stop trolling this thread with her buffoonery?

Long live the chantry! Long live the Templars!

Death to apostates! Death to maleficars!

The Dales will forever belong to humanity! 

Modifié par wolfhowwl, 14 juin 2013 - 06:59 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

LobselVith8 wrote...
It's an issue of wanting the same freedom with the protagonist that I had with The Warden, which is also felt by other people who expressed a similar interest, and started threads about it.

A lot of Hawke's statements are to a certain degree up to player interpretation, and if you want to interpret them more literally, that's fine.  But there are plenty of other plausible interpretations; I saw my mage Hawke as something of a doubter like Aveline, and I don't think any of the statements in-game contradicted that at all.  Any comments she had about the Maker were expressions or courtesies.  

If it's that important to you to be explicit with your protagonist's religious beliefs, that's fine too.  But atheists as we think of them in the modern world are probably something of a rarity in Thedas; the Dalish believe in their Creators, dwarves return to the Stone, etc.  I suppose if you want to get technical the Qunari are atheists in that they don't seem to believe in a god, but that's splitting hairs IMO.  They've got faith in the Qun.  To the best of my recollection, at no point in DA:O could the Warden say, "I'm an atheist" or anything that amounted to it.  S/he could reject specific beliefs, but not religion as a whole.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Templars. Putting mages in their place with style for 1000 years:

[LobselVith8]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

It's an issue of wanting the same freedom with the protagonist that I had with The Warden, which is also felt by other people who expressed a similar interest, and started threads about it.

A lot of Hawke's statements are to a certain degree up to player interpretation, and if you want to interpret them more literally, that's fine.  But there are plenty of other plausible interpretations; I saw my mage Hawke as something of a doubter like Aveline, and I don't think any of the statements in-game contradicted that at all.  Any comments she had about the Maker were expressions or courtesies.  

If it's that important to you to be explicit with your protagonist's religious beliefs, that's fine too.  But atheists as we think of them in the modern world are probably something of a rarity in Thedas; the Dalish believe in their Creators, dwarves return to the Stone, etc.  I suppose if you want to get technical the Qunari are atheists in that they don't seem to believe in a god, but that's splitting hairs IMO.  They've got faith in the Qun.  To the best of my recollection, at no point in DA:O could the Warden say, "I'm an atheist" or anything that amounted to it.  S/he could reject specific [/i]beliefs, but not religion as a whole. 

I don't see the departure dialogue with Feynriel as a cultural greeting, and given the history between the People and the Andrastian Chantry, Hawke should have said something else entirely.

My issue is wanting the same freedom that was avaliable in Origins. Being limited to telling Merrill that Leandra was with the Maker, or two dialogue options where I verbally attack her, didn't feel like I was being given any genuine range or choice over Hawke.

Being limited to agreeing with Sebastian's religious views on the Maker, without the option to disagree about Andraste or the Maker, didn't let have the same freedom that I did with The Warden, where I could disagree with Leliana about Andraste and tell Justice I didn't believe in the Maker. It's not to my taste to buy an RPG and play Bioware's character, instead of shaping my own.

[Xilizhra]

wolfhowwl wrote...

Did Xil finally stop trolling this thread with her buffoonery?

Long live the chantry! Long live the Templars!

Death to apostates! Death to maleficars!

The Dales will forever belong to humanity! 

No, I went to work, then bed. Give me a moment to catch up.

For every rebellion that suceeded, you will find a dozen that ended in total failure.

This is a video game, where unlikely things happen all the time.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 14 juin 2013 - 12:32 .

[LobselVith8]

Hazegurl wrote...



Oh that silly Blood Mage Orsino. 

So you're saying Orsino became a Harvester before? 

[Noctis Augustus]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
It's an issue of wanting the same freedom with the protagonist that I had with The Warden, which is also felt by other people who expressed a similar interest, and started threads about it.

A lot of Hawke's statements are to a certain degree up to player interpretation, and if you want to interpret them more literally, that's fine.  But there are plenty of other plausible interpretations; I saw my mage Hawke as something of a doubter like Aveline, and I don't think any of the statements in-game contradicted that at all.  Any comments she had about the Maker were expressions or courtesies.  

If it's that important to you to be explicit with your protagonist's religious beliefs, that's fine too.  But atheists as we think of them in the modern world are probably something of a rarity in Thedas; the Dalish believe in their Creators, dwarves return to the Stone, etc.  I suppose if you want to get technical the Qunari are atheists in that they don't seem to believe in a god, but that's splitting hairs IMO.  They've got faith in the Qun.  To the best of my recollection, at no point in DA:O could the Warden say, "I'm an atheist" or anything that amounted to it.  S/he could reject specific beliefs, but not religion as a whole.

And why can't we be part of those rare cases? They are less rare than you think though. There's no reason to prevent the player from rejecting in-game religions in a blunt or in a more indirect way depending on the context or not mentioning it at all. Your actions are enough to show if you are a theist.

Atheism has been around probably since the existence of humanity. At least it has been around since Ancient times of civilization.

[addiction21]

Well congratulations. Another thread derailed.

[Xilizhra]

addiction21 wrote...

Well congratulations. Another thread derailed.

There are these things, you know, if you don't want other people posting in your torture porn hugbox. They're called "groups."

[addiction21]

Xilizhra wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

Well congratulations. Another thread derailed.

There are these things, you know, if you don't want other people posting in your torture porn hugbox. They're called "groups."

Torture porn? What the **** are you talking about?

And its so amusing you preach freedom and blah blah blah... but its only for those that agree with you. Everyone else needs to clear out and hide away.

[Xilizhra]

addiction21 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

Well congratulations. Another thread derailed.

There are these things, you know, if you don't want other people posting in your torture porn hugbox. They're called "groups."

Torture porn? What the **** are you talking about?

And its so amusing you preach freedom and blah blah blah... but its only for those that agree with you. Everyone else needs to clear out and hide away.

Hardly. What would I do all day without you people being in public? But if you post in public, that's an invitation to public conversations; you can't make threads and then expect everyone else to keep out altogether.

On the other thing, the only thing I've seen your side do when not arguing with us is giggle about how bad the mages have it in Andoral's Reach, or fantasize about torturing/killing them with the aid of 40K, or without that aid for that matter.

[SamaraDraven]

addiction21 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

Well congratulations. Another thread derailed.

There are these things, you know, if you don't want other people posting in your torture porn hugbox. They're called "groups."

Torture porn? What the **** are you talking about?

And its so amusing you preach freedom and blah blah blah... but its only for those that agree with you. Everyone else needs to clear out and hide away.

Xil thinks we get off on torturing mages. Like Alrik. I give you props for pluck Xil. I admit I giggled. However I disagree that because we see Templars as filling a necessary role and appreciate them makes us sick sadists. I haven't called you names or slandered your quality of character. Now, I'm off to work. I'll catch up later.

[LobselVith8]

addiction21 wrote...

Well congratulations. Another thread derailed.

Have you felt that way when pro-templar posters participated in atheist and elven threads?

[Xilizhra]

Xil thinks we get off on torturing mages. Like Alrik. I give you props for pluck Xil. I admit I giggled. However I disagree that because we see Templars as filling a necessary role and appreciate them makes us sick sadists. I haven't called you names or slandered your quality of character. Now, I'm off to work. I'll catch up later.

That? No.

Dinner for the mages at Andoral's Reach:

It'll be funny if someone in game just off handley mentions that the mages froze to death at Andoral's Reach. lol!!

Watching Fiona's ill-fated rebellion unravel is my porn.

That? For starters? Yes.

[addiction21]

Xilizhra wrote...

Hardly. What would I do all day without you people being in public? But if you post in public, that's an invitation to public conversations; you can't make threads and then expect everyone else to keep out altogether.

On the other thing, the only thing I've seen your side do when not arguing with us is giggle about how bad the mages have it in Andoral's Reach, or fantasize about torturing/killing them with the aid of 40K, or without that aid for that matter.

There is a difference between a discussion and purposefully sabotaging it because you don't like the present discussion. You do the latter because you want to squash any dissenting opinions.

Oh look your doing it again. Demonizing large groups because of the actions of a few. Just like the chantry and Templars do with mages. Something you claim to detest but are not above doing when it suits you.

Oh by the way. Just because I openly mock your hypocrisy does not make entrenched on the Templars side. I am not and know that I have never shared my full opinion.

[addiction21]

LobselVith8 wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

Well congratulations. Another thread derailed.

Have you felt that way when pro-templar posters participated in atheist and elven threads?

Yes I do and have many times reported them like I do both you, xilihara , or anyone else.

The "they did it first" is not a excuse to repeat the behavior. Its pathetic and childish.

Modifié par addiction21, 14 juin 2013 - 03:22 .

[Xilizhra]

There is a difference between a discussion and purposefully sabotaging it because you don't like the present discussion. You do the latter because you want to squash any dissenting opinions.

Squash? As if I was in power somehow? I'm not even in the majority opinion.

Oh look your doing it again. Demonizing large groups because of the actions of a few. Just like the chantry and Templars do with mages. Something you claim to detest but are not above doing when it suits you.

I've seen and known only one templar fan personally whom I didn't think was a seriously unpleasant person, and she barely counts as one of them, even.

Oh by the way. Just because I openly mock your hypocrisy does not make entrenched on the Templars side. I am not and know that I have never shared my full opinion.

That's nice.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Xil's double standards are the stuff of legends. It is hard to actually believe that she means what she says, but the scary thing is, I believe that she believes every word she says, and is simply incapable of seeing her own hypocrisy.

[Xilizhra]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Xil's double standards are the stuff of legends. It is hard to actually believe that she means what she says, but the scary thing is, I believe that she believes every word she says, and is simply incapable of seeing her own hypocrisy.

Because... what, you think I want to imprison and torture all templar supporters on forums? Because I want to stop an enemy army as oppose to crashing down on a biological grouping?

[SamaraDraven]

Jayne126 wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

Revolutions can also spawn a worse dictatorship

Indeed.

For the greater good, the templars have the right idea.

saw this when I took one more peek before going on duty and I want to just echo the sentiment. So what I wonder is where is the line? Where do they go too far? And how might their goals be upheld without dehumanizing mages or becoming monsters themselves. I did find Alrik and what he was doing horrific. Would liked to have stabbed him the arse with my sword. So what amount of law and vigil over mages is reasonable for the greater good? There are no easy answers but it makes for stimulating discussion. If rather that than tossing Chim-Chim cookies back and forth at each other. 

[Xilizhra]

SamaraDraven wrote...

Jayne126 wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

Revolutions can also spawn a worse dictatorship

Indeed.

For the greater good, the templars have the right idea.

saw this when I took one more peek before going on duty and I want to just echo the sentiment. So what I wonder is where is the line? Where do they go too far? And how might their goals be upheld without dehumanizing mages or becoming monsters themselves. I did find Alrik and what he was doing horrific. Would liked to have stabbed him the arse with my sword. So what amount of law and vigil over mages is reasonable for the greater good? There are no easy answers but it makes for stimulating discussion. If rather that than tossing Chim-Chim cookies back and forth at each other. 

-Be secular.
-Be a separate branch of command within the independent Circle.
-Exist to protect mages from demons, not keep mages locked up.
-Not monopolize their secrets, so that national governments that wish to protect their citizens from rogue mages may do so.
-Don't watch the mages while bathing.

That's an initial list. There's probably more.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Xilizhra wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Xil's double standards are the stuff of legends. It is hard to actually believe that she means what she says, but the scary thing is, I believe that she believes every word she says, and is simply incapable of seeing her own hypocrisy.

Because... what, you think I want to imprison and torture all templar supporters on forums? Because I want to stop an enemy army as oppose to crashing down on a biological grouping?

Don't try and spin it like your hatred of the Templars are a recent thing. Everybody knows taht your hatred of the Templars run far deeper and longer, than the current mage-Templar conflict.

[Xilizhra]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Xil's double standards are the stuff of legends. It is hard to actually believe that she means what she says, but the scary thing is, I believe that she believes every word she says, and is simply incapable of seeing her own hypocrisy.

Because... what, you think I want to imprison and torture all templar supporters on forums? Because I want to stop an enemy army as oppose to crashing down on a biological grouping?

Don't try and spin it like your hatred of the Templars are a recent thing. Everybody knows taht your hatred of the Templars run far deeper and longer, than the current mage-Templar conflict.

Well, it's a terrible system, there's no denying. But I didn't think it was necessary to wipe out the Order completely until the war they declared made it such.