366 réponses à ce sujet

[Dave of Canada]

Edit: Will repost in a sec.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 12 juin 2013 - 09:03 .

[Bungie]

BioWare always gives us choice even if it's hard to keep people alive they give us that choice & sometimes it requires 2nd play through & that to me is more important than just simply killing off people.

It makes your first play through dark but your 2nd play through can be bright & full of life if you really wanted that.
Gives you a satisfied feeling when you can keep people alive & that's what I want.


Forcing a game to do & be completely certain ways is not a Bioware game.

Modifié par F e n r i s, 12 juin 2013 - 09:25 .

[Dave of Canada]

Tatsumaki wrote...

If a game is filled with hardship, grief, sorrow and pain why bother playing? Is that entertaining? 

Sorry, what were you saying? Something about entertainment? I can't possibly list any games with those traits.

[Tatsumaki]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Sorry, what were you saying? Something about entertainment? I can't possibly list any games with those traits.

I don't play console games. Why list War3 and GTA? These have nothing to do with the aforementioned context. If anything GTA allowed you to be anything you want with minimal repercussions. I'm not touching horror genre like Silent Hill. Thats deviating. Playing a horror genre you know what to expect.

Red Dead Redemption is one exception where it was somewhat a bad ending (Up to player's interpretation)

Bioshock 2 had the protagonist die, but again it was an OK ending. The crux and the main topic is simple: Killing off team mates, main characters doesn't make a game dark. It makes it annoying. Was ME3 dark? Most people would have found it annoying than dark so much so there needed to be an extended cut and a party DLC to soften things up.

Stop being extremist in your reply

Modifié par Tatsumaki, 12 juin 2013 - 10:05 .

[ThisIsZad]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Tatsumaki wrote...

If a game is filled with hardship, grief, sorrow and pain why bother playing? Is that entertaining? 

Sorry, what were you saying? Something about entertainment? I can't possibly list any games with those traits.

brilliant ^^

[SeismicGravy]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Tatsumaki wrote...

If a game is filled with hardship, grief, sorrow and pain why bother playing? Is that entertaining? 

Sorry, what were you saying? Something about entertainment? I can't possibly list any games with those traits.

Those were all examples of bittersweet endings (you saved the many by sacrificing the few), not "everybody in the world dies no matter what you do because you suck" endings.

[garrusfan1]

why do people just want everyone to die or for you to kill everyone.

[Il Divo]

SeismicGravy wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Tatsumaki wrote...

If a game is filled with hardship, grief, sorrow and pain why bother playing? Is that entertaining? 

Sorry, what were you saying? Something about entertainment? I can't possibly list any games with those traits.

Those were all examples of bittersweet endings (you saved the many by sacrificing the few), not "everybody in the world dies no matter what you do because you suck" endings.

Spec Ops the Line is considered a bittersweet ending?

*spoilers*

It ends with the protagonist realizing all he did was cause more death and suffering than he aimed to prevent because of his obsession with being a hero, ending with either his death or severe mental trauma.

[kinderschlager]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I nominate the Inquisitor

KILL IT! KILL IT WITH FIRE!

[Vilegrim]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I nominate the Inquisitor

Why not? It's not like his/her story will continue anyway, so dying during the endgame is fine (as long as it makes sense ofc) 

[Iakus]

Nightdragon8 wrote...


Why don't we just say it.... We want DA:O ending. Where the choices we made mattered in some form or another. And the only way to get a "sad" or "Happy" ending is to die as a result of it or not.

We want a DA:O ending.

But the Warden's dying or not isn't just it.  That's just one possible outcome.  In the end, you have choices on what you wish to sacrifice.  Not like in ME3, where no matter what awful chocie you make, you're still essentially told "You exist because we allow it, and will end because we demand it"

In DAO, there's still two other people who can pay the price instead.  Both willing.  And you may or may not want them to die as well.  Plus there's the DR.  (Some say that's the obvious "super-happy" solutions, but personally, it's not my optimal ending.)

Also you could say the ending was pretty forced, considering you had to kill both sides but it was you sided with the templars and ended up ruling the city (which is kind of funny for a mage to be there) or disaper with Isabella.
Merrill

Fixed:D

But yeah, Varric's epilogue could give Hawke's story a silver lining.  But it didn't really help much in the player agency department.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

A apocolypse story is much different than a fantasy one.

-snip-

.

You make very good points, and a stroy does need it's dark elements, but that is not what my main problem is. It's about choice, or moreover the removal of choice in order to make a story darker. By leaving the player with no say in weather a character lives or dies, it removes many players investiment to care about them. Suddenly there isn't a reason to replay the game, because there is no way the scenario plays out differently and the player starts to view his companions more as walking packmules than actual characters. Take DAO for example. After I found out my two grey-warden initiates die, no matter what, I loss investiment to care, same for the people in my origin story. I still liked the banter and all, but it felt hollow, it lacked any sort of deeper feelings than "Oh, that's nice." I began to strip them of all their equipment everytime I knew their ending bits were coming up in order to get some extra equipment and coin from the game, essentially, their unavoidable deaths made me dehumanize them to the point where I didn;t even care about the scenes anymore.

If you make it so that the player is forced to experience characters death, with no input from them in their choice based rpg, you will make the characters less identifyable and more dehumanized and valued. You can give players the option to kill them, you can have all characters be susceptable to death, but it should be a player choice or related to player action, not forced upon them because a mandate was needed to shock the audience. Limit it to certain events and scenarios, and make sure that you don't do a wholesale half the companions are killed at once type event, because that will just make people care even less about any of the characters.

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 12 juin 2013 - 04:46 .

[AwakenxBenihime]

Kabraxal wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Kabraxal wrote...

Give us choice... DAO worked because it could be as dark or "lighter" depending on what you did..

Then why the **** would you take the darker options if you can get a happily-ever after ending?

I've done it a few times in DAO... imagine that, actually ROLE PLAYING and choosing different things.  O but wait... we can't have that anymore so lets shut down choice and arbitrarily force the players to watch as their favourite NPC's dia all around just because...

Seriously... this "let's force darkness" crap going on really needs to stop.  The whole purpose of having multiple choices to make is to actually have different outcomes ranging from good to horrible.. not o just slightly less horible and nothing you can do can make it brighter.

I completely agree.  It's all about the choice to me.  Being able to choose Morinth over Samara just because I felt like it., or choosing to execute Anders or let him go or even make him fight at my side.  Dragon Age Origins is the only game I've played where I actually chose to have my character die for the greater good.  I just don't want death for darkness's sake, it should fit the story and not feel forced.

[wylie9]

You know.. this thread reminded me of the movie "kill your darlings" for some reason.

[Lennard Testarossa]

Kabraxal wrote...

I've done it a few times in DAO... imagine that, actually ROLE PLAYING and choosing different things.  O but wait... we can't have that anymore so lets shut down choice and arbitrarily force the players to watch as their favourite NPC's dia all around just because...

Seriously... this "let's force darkness" crap going on really needs to stop.  The whole purpose of having multiple choices to make is to actually have different outcomes ranging from good to horrible.. not o just slightly less horible and nothing you can do can make it brighter.

Nonsense. "Role-playing" is about choosing how your character acts, not about choosing outcomes.

[n0na90]

Well, I do know that I once played through Mass Effect 2 and half my squad didn't make it through the final mission. It felt sad, crushing even, but also brilliant. It was epic. Very, very memorable. Actually the most memorable hour I've spent in a Bioware game for.. 10 years?

But sensless death with no meaning, and no options, usually suck.

[Pheonix57]

This is the final game of the trilogy, and it's set in the middle of a war. I expect death, just like I expected death in ME3. It's kind of cruel, but in a way I'm hoping for it, probably because I know it will give me really strong feelings. I love it when a game gets me emotionally invested ^-^

[Fetunche]

All you grimdark game of thrones fans do realise that there is a game of thrones game available. Go play that and let DA be DA.

[Il Divo]

Pheonix57 wrote...

This is the final game of the trilogy, and it's set in the middle of a war. I expect death, just like I expected death in ME3. It's kind of cruel, but in a way I'm hoping for it, probably because I know it will give me really strong feelings. I love it when a game gets me emotionally invested ^-^

You poor, poor soul.

[Jamesnew2]

n0na90 wrote...

Well, I do know that I once played through Mass Effect 2 and half my squad didn't make it through the final mission. It felt sad, crushing even, but also brilliant. It was epic. Very, very memorable. Actually the most memorable hour I've spent in a Bioware game for.. 10 years?

But sensless death with no meaning, and no options, usually suck.

To be honest i dont think anyone wants senseless death, if their is any death, i personally want it to be on the dramatic scale as that of mordin in me3

[Iakus]

Lennard Testarossa wrote...

Kabraxal wrote...

I've done it a few times in DAO... imagine that, actually ROLE PLAYING and choosing different things.  O but wait... we can't have that anymore so lets shut down choice and arbitrarily force the players to watch as their favourite NPC's dia all around just because...

Seriously... this "let's force darkness" crap going on really needs to stop.  The whole purpose of having multiple choices to make is to actually have different outcomes ranging from good to horrible.. not o just slightly less horible and nothing you can do can make it brighter.

Nonsense. "Role-playing" is about choosing how your character acts, not about choosing outcomes.

In an rpg advertised as "heroic" I expect to be able to overcome the darkness, not simply endure it until my soul is crushed

[Iakus]

Pheonix57 wrote...

This is the final game of the trilogy, and it's set in the middle of a war. I expect death, just like I expected death in ME3. It's kind of cruel, but in a way I'm hoping for it, probably because I know it will give me really strong feelings. I love it when a game gets me emotionally invested ^-^

Psst:

Dragon Age is not, and never was, planned as a trilogy.  It's an open-ended series.  It'll go on as long as it's profitable.  Or until they run out of years, in which case I guess they'll have to name it something else.

[Il Divo]

^ "Tower Age" would be my nomination.