366 réponses à ce sujet

[KiwiQuiche]

"Massacre Mountain Age."


But I'm all for deaths as long as it makes sense and it's not due to that horrendous cut scene stupidity.

Modifié par KiwiQuiche, 12 juin 2013 - 11:22 .

[Ryzaki]

Fade age?

Sweet Maker no.

If there's one thing DA2 did better than DAO it was the fade.

[Bungie]

Ryzaki wrote...

Fade age?

Sweet Maker no.

If there's one thing DA2 did better than DAO it was the fade.

DA2 did pull it off better but DAI seems like something similar to the fade is coming to us. Can't wait.

[garrusfan1]

if you tried to kill leliana or garrus in games you deserve to be punished somehow and because of that there will be no more character deaths. evil laugh

[Paul E Dangerously]

The problem with this is that you need to have a reason and a method to kill said character off without leaving the player (and any reasonably intelligent protagonist) feeling like they've been left holding the idiot ball.

[Dabrikishaw]

Realmzmaster wrote...

The killing of companions really only works on the first playthrough. You simply either avoid developing that character on subsequent playthroughs or never use him/her in the party again. That simply limits player choice on the makeup of their party. I have no problem with that if it is my choice. For example I turn Fenris over to Denarius.
I decide to remove him as a companion or leaving Sten in the cage. Player choice. I would not be happy if Bioware decides to kill off a companion that I have invested time building up.
Now if Bioware wants to kill off characters that were in the the previous two games that are not companions that is fine.
The killing of Anders in DA2 was left to player choice. Bioware has been good at letting players decide the makeup of their party even if you did not like (insert companion). The player got to choose whether to include or not include that companion.

Player choice (IMHO) will always trump darkness or heroic. Just because it is war that does not mean having to further limit player choice.

Even in BG2 where personalities came in conflict to the point that companions would kill each other it was left to the gamer to decide whether to risk that when the party was composed.

+1

[Jamesnew2]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

"Massacre Mountain Age."


But I'm all for deaths as long as it makes sense and it's not due to that horrendous cut scene stupidity.

Swear i've heard that title be used for a western XD

[Fredward]

Tatsumaki wrote...

You're either putting words in my mouth or misinterprating. Most if not all games paint the player as a hero. Few games make the player a villiain. Most if not all people play game for entertainment purposes. Entertaintment basically just temporarily focuses the person / mind on something enjoyable.

If a game is filled with hardship, grief, sorrow and pain why bother playing? Is that entertaining
? (Lets not go into the topic about BDSM and such) In short, I'd like a playing a game (any game) to be entertaining. If its terrible I might as well just resort to real life.

So when you say I expected game developers to cater to me? You are mistaken.

Why hasn't any game marketed as such?

Dragon Age 3: You and your family dies
Mass Effect 3: Earth gets Harvested
Game Title X : All your base belonged to someone else

You're being purposefully obtuse now. But whatever, this is off topic and isn't going to anywhere anyway. You like happy endings, I get that. Just so you know some people are fully capable of seperating themselves from a fictional event so that it doesn't have any kind of serious emotional impact on their lives. Bittersweet makes perfect sense in Bioware games and leaves me thinking about it long after I would have forgotten about a happy ending.


But anywhoo. I never watched the trailers for DAO and DA2 and I'm too lazy to do it now, did they come across as dark as DAI?

[Pzykozis]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

But anywhoo. I never watched the trailers for DAO and DA2 and I'm too lazy to do it now, did they come across as dark as DAI?

Not really no, CGi wise (I know this one isn't CGi in the Blur sense) for the previous two we had a large splashing of heroic fantasy, 2 was slightly less so but still in the same vein. There was that Marilyn Manson one for origins but that was just uhh... misplaced.

[Tatsumaki]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

You're being purposefully obtuse now. But whatever, this is off topic and isn't going to anywhere anyway. You like happy endings, I get that. Just so you know some people are fully capable of seperating themselves from a fictional event so that it doesn't have any kind of serious emotional impact on their lives. Bittersweet makes perfect sense in Bioware games and leaves me thinking about it long after I would have forgotten about a happy ending.


But anywhoo. I never watched the trailers for DAO and DA2 and I'm too lazy to do it now, did they come across as dark as DAI?

Most people play games for entertainment. Few do it for a living. Its not a question emotional entanglement or not. Your RPG characters are something you build up. Having someone or something just tear it down 'just cause' leaves a bad taste in your mouth. When something is market differently and pans out different it results in discontent. See Mass Effect 3.

Example: The movie Avengers. What happens if you watched that movie and in the end everyone dies and the aliens took over earth. Sure the movie was about  The Avengers, that died. Same with the recent and upcoming Man Of Steel. So you watch the movie, everyone dies, credit rolls. Thank you very much.

However if it was marketed as "The Death of Superman" (the comic where Lobo killed Superman) then people know what to expect.

For the record Dragon Age 2 at least marketed Hawke like a hero. One trailer depicted the showdown with the Arishok.

TLDR: Tearing down build up character just cause doesn't result in a dark environment. Its plain annoying - but yeah I'm just obtuse; sure

[Foolsfolly]

David Gaider wrote...

Dragon Age is about difficult decisions, and not always knowing which path is the "right" one. As before, some themes will be dark and others won't be. There will be some disturbing and mature content, some betrayal, some heartache... as well as some comedy and some joy where it can be found.

Beyond that? I doubt we've any interest in pushing the envelope and making Dragon Age darker just for the sake of doing so, nor in engaging in topics over what "dark" consists of-- as if that were some clearly-defined and immutable category. We're also not interested in Dragon Age being all about fantasy escapism, where bad things aren't supposed to happen because they might be upsetting. They will.

If that makes it difficult to plot exactly where Dragon Age lies on the Dark-o-Meter... well, so what? We're not trying to be edgy. Just entertaining. We'll do our best on that front, but as always your personal mileage may vary.

::spit take::

Some betrayal? Really!

I..I...I don't know what to say. I got a friend of mine to play DA and Mass Effect. He went through them and he was constantly expecting betrayals from damn near everyone. And I was like "I can't think of any betrayals in either series."

...well at the time I had no idea Zevran could betray you because I never had low enough approval with him.

I'm going to tell him about this comment. He's going to treat every companion and NPC at a distance like they're covered in spiders.

Also, hurrah! For hard choices. They're fun to talk about and... pretty rare in these games. (Dark Ritual; Architect choice; and... I can't think of any others that were tough to call. Most break down rather easily between "morally right" and "morally wrong.")

[Lotion Soronarr]

Knight of Dane wrote...
I agree, death in a RPG doesn't mean anything is it isn't a consequence or a sacrifice from the players decision.

Bollocks.

[Arakiel12409]

I hope some companions will do, but so that you did not see it coming, like, if you get attacked by a mage who had lost control and one of your companions ( or LIs > ) sacrifices himself to protect you. This would give the whole conflict some weight, if your character loses companions he had come to cherish.

[Jamesnew2]

How would everyone feel from Hawke being killed off?

[Qyla]

Since in the end of DA2 both Hawke and the Warden are alive I doubt that the one Varric is mourning on is Hawke, it would make no sense, none would kill a protagonist "because yes".

Back OT I was slightly disappointed that no matter what Leliana and the Warden are alive. So the sacrifice that my warden did was worth to nothing? And what if Alistair or Loghain did it?

[Capt. Obvious]

Dave of Canada wrote...

WittingEight65 wrote...

Give me a Red Wedding :X.

Better: A Red Wedding as a result of your choices.

THIS.

I want to have the ability in Dragon Age 3 to **** up. Maybe alienate your entire group of companions. Or maybe one companion tries to take over your entire group. Or maybe you lead your entire party into a trap and they all die except for yourself.

Again, these events can happen all based on your choices.

[Deemz]

I don't know how dark you can go with the story without trying to force some kind of emotion on the player. In ME3 there were several moments where you could the story was trying to club you over the head while saying "You will feel sad here damn it!". You can get away with that in book because you are reading a story. I look at RPGs as experiencing my story.

In M3's case they used a child dying as one of the clubs to make you feel and the story to be dark. What if you were like me and you don't give a crap about some random kid dying? Then you have a story that is supposed to be "dark" but is instead coming off as silly.

Kill off companions that you have had can me effective. But what if you find those characters annoying? In ME1 you have to choose between two characters to die. It is not all that big of a deal to me. From I heard the Kaiden speak, I was looking for a way to kill him. In ME2 I always send Jacob to his death in the tunnel. Why? Because he is boring and he asks to go. But the player is supposed to feel sad about his death.

KoToR did it right with the killing of Mission. I hardly used her during the game but to just execute her like that. And using her best friend to do it was tough.

[Mike 9987]

why do main characters have to die for it to be dark?

[Quyk Sylvyr]

There's a balance. I hate scenes where it feels like the writers were simply trying to make it dark and going "how can we make this dark?" (I always felt the ending of ME3 fell into that category.) On the other hand, I felt that Mordin's death scene in ME3 was perfect. It was sad. . . and yet it felt right for Mordin's character. Also, the game gave you a couple choices there. Most of the origin stories from DA:O are also examples. My favorite was the human noble storyline. That touches my heart every time I play it. I think if DA:2 had spent about 5-10 minutes letting us know our siblings before having to flee the Blight, it might have had more impact. The choices surrounding the second sibling in DA:O seemed to have more impact to me.

[Solmanian]

If "main" charecters gets killed off left and right, their deaths become cheap and ineffective. That what made the virmire sacrifice so devestating. You expect a perfect ending well all your friends live happily ever after as long as you make the right choice; and than you get this "**** just got real" moment.

I love a good "kubayashi maru" scenario, where you're stuck in a no-win scenario with only bad choices; it's just more interesting and chalanging. Scenarios with "obvious" choices are boring to me.

Afer all, isn't life one long no-win scenario? Where you know you're facing inevitable death sooner or later, and might aswell enjoy the ride?

[Solmanian]

Quyk Sylvyr wrote...

There's a balance. I hate scenes where it feels like the writers were simply trying to make it dark and going "how can we make this dark?" (I always felt the ending of ME3 fell into that category.) On the other hand, I felt that Mordin's death scene in ME3 was perfect. It was sad. . . and yet it felt right for Mordin's character. Also, the game gave you a couple choices there. Most of the origin stories from DA:O are also examples. My favorite was the human noble storyline. That touches my heart every time I play it. I think if DA:2 had spent about 5-10 minutes letting us know our siblings before having to flee the Blight, it might have had more impact. The choices surrounding the second sibling in DA:O seemed to have more impact to me.

And making you choose which one dies, instead of saddling us with a mother that immediatly blames you in something you had no way to influence. Class based sibling sacrifice was a mistake in my opinion, and came way too early to matter.

[Qyla]

Solmanian wrote...

Quyk Sylvyr wrote...

There's a balance. I hate scenes where it feels like the writers were simply trying to make it dark and going "how can we make this dark?" (I always felt the ending of ME3 fell into that category.) On the other hand, I felt that Mordin's death scene in ME3 was perfect. It was sad. . . and yet it felt right for Mordin's character. Also, the game gave you a couple choices there. Most of the origin stories from DA:O are also examples. My favorite was the human noble storyline. That touches my heart every time I play it. I think if DA:2 had spent about 5-10 minutes letting us know our siblings before having to flee the Blight, it might have had more impact. The choices surrounding the second sibling in DA:O seemed to have more impact to me.

And making you choose which one dies, instead of saddling us with a mother that immediatly blames you in something you had no way to influence. Class based sibling sacrifice was a mistake in my opinion, and came way too early to matter.

Who would choose Carver instead of Bethany? u.u

[Adela]

seriously why are ppl so crazy over killing companions? im mean really? there's enough death in the game as it is plus if there is gonna me some super ultra boss at the end u will need all of ur companions to fight it unless ur playing with cheats

[Huyna]

No "drama for sake of drama" please.

- Ha-ha, Hawk, your mother is dying and there is NOTHING you can do.
- But i am master of Blood Magic! And there is powerfull healer in my group!
- No, it does not matter! Law of Forced Drama wills her death. Suffer!!

I remember a brilliant example from Baldur's Gate 2. A member of your party (a protagonist's love interest, if i remember correctly) could become a victim of a very powerfull vampire and your group would have to slay this character. Yet, a player could pick up a body in a hope to somehow restore it back to life (basic ressurection spell would not work). So , after a research player could start a long  quest that would , eventually, lead him to an ancient forgotten altar. On that altar and with right sacrifice we could bring back our fallen party member.
All of this was absolutely optional and had nothing to do with main story. So, we could accept the death of fight it.
And that was the beauty of it.

Modifié par Huyna, 17 juin 2013 - 09:15 .

[Capt. Obvious]

Its not like the OP said that there should be drama for the sake of drama, just that nobody in the story should be safe.