366 réponses à ce sujet

[karushna5]

As far as I understand, in fiction, there are multiple routes, books where people die often gets frustrating because their stories are halted and in many cases, unless they are all after one thing and the goal is many failing until one succeeds. Those can be fun. Otherwise it is frustrating and can lead to Blaise feeling as many people I know have started to feel with Game of Thrones. Too many character deaths to get attached.

on the other hand often fiction makes others untouchable, no excitement, no worries. In cases where death isn't a risk this should be expected, or if there is only one character. No one expects Harry Potter to die in book 3 he can't because he is the titular character. Most of the time this can be a little deflating and no real worry for the characters.

I feel video games that focus on characters like Bioware can not kill them willy billy, it destroys much of the games impact On The Other Hand if they never die it can lead to a sense of detachment because they are invulnerable. Also a game on choice should not make a player helpless when it comes to their deaths. Thus certain areas at certain times a character should be able to die. The end of their quest line...always at the end of the game, certain choices that can benefit or help. Choosing between 2 characters like Ashley or Kaiden. Or previous games deciding lifespan like Moridin or Wrex.

not doing quests, or even pure planned near the end of a game or quest line can be fun. The game wants to make you feel? give you a companion that Must die. Not that you know the first time, it would be like if Mhairi lived until you meet Velanna. Much more of a kick. Otherwise the story falls apart and would lack some of its real strengths yet at the same giving some danger to your characters. Maybe too much for some and too little for others, but it really is the only option in a story based game with companions being a key point of the game.

[Dave of Canada]

iakus wrote...

Indeed it did.  I played it myself.

But it's not really a choice based game.  However you play.  You can't save any of the main cast.  If they're scheduled to die, they're gonna die.  It's the exact same illusion of choice you scorn at the very idea of allowing a brighter outcome.

Was mostly using it as an example that a game which emotionally wrecks players can be successful, none of the choices leading to happier solutions and it was still well-recieved. I want a story which delivers to me something just as sadistic and emotionally breaking but with actual consequences of my actions.

The fact that all decisions were equally viable and a "wrong"/"right" decision lead to people hating you or liking you was brilliant, I loved one playthrough where I was best buddies with Kenny and another where I was best friends with Lily. Hell, you could be sorry about your previous actions or defend them all the way to the end. I loved that.

Say you go into the game and determine "I'm going to win freedom for the mages," you should be confronted about that fact and have the price you're willing to pay for that goal be mentioned continuously.  

I'd love to see the player reach a point where they don't care about mage freedom anymore, they just want to take care of their friends. I certainly reached that point in TWD where I went from "Survival at any cost" to someone empathic, something which truly shocked me because I'd never expect a game to get me to change my playstyle and character.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 11 juin 2013 - 01:01 .

[archangel1996]

I always tought that some characters should have ended indoctrinated in ME3, for example i bring Garrus in the Reapers associate quests and in the end he gets indoctrinated or something like that

I mean, in DA:I i don't want to have the feeling that i should fight the "Reapers" istead i am wasting my time with cerberus, something like DA:O with a feeling that something may go wrong because i made the wrong call
Today i was playing DA2, Hawke just stares while this blood mages kill his wife (in the Alienage) i don't want something like that, i don't want to have to possibility to save everyone without making a toughtfull/hard decision (see MP in ME3) nor doing nothing while i can do something

Modifié par archangel1996, 11 juin 2013 - 01:10 .

[Iakus]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Was mostly using it as an example that a game which emotionally wrecks players can be successful, none of the choices leading to happier solutions and it was still well-recieved. I want a story which delivers to me something just as sadistic and emotionally breaking but with actual consequences of my actions.

The fact that all decisions were equally viable and a "wrong"/"right" decision lead to people hating you or liking you was brilliant, I loved one playthrough where I was best buddies with Kenny and another where I was best friends with Lily. Hell, you could be sorry about your previous actions or defend them all the way to the end. I loved that.

Yeah, in teh end Lee succeeds.  But not because of any chocies we made.  ALl tehy did was add flavoring to a story that was essentially being told to us.  We had virtually no agency.  Which is fine for that stroy.  But here we're being told we're going to shape the course of Thedas.

Say you go into the game and determine "I'm going to win freedom for the mages," you should be confronted about that fact and have the price you're willing to pay for that goal be mentioned continuously.  

With you so far, but again, the price should be worth it.  No bathing afterwards.

I'd love to see the player reach a point where they don't care about mage freedom anymore, they just want to take care of their friends. I certainly reached that point in TWD where I went from "Survival at any cost" to someone empathic, something which truly shocked me because I'd never expect a game to get me to change my playstyle and character.

Yeah, I hit that point in DA2.  That's when I started flipping a coin to decide who I would side with.  Because in the end, it simply didn't matter.

[Il Divo]

iakus wrote...

Well, the sentiment among some here seems to be that it is wrong to be noble.  That the player should be stepped on for "being a good person"  Which is what I object to.

Well, to clarify, that's not what I want at all. It's boring, at the least.

[thenemesis1]

Lenimph wrote...

What if the dead person Varric is mourning over in the trailer is Hawke?

I think that was his brother.

[Ryzaki]

thenemesis1 wrote...

Lenimph wrote...

What if the dead person Varric is mourning over in the trailer is Hawke?

I think that was his brother.

Though Varric only had one brother...and he's killable in DA2.

[archangel1996]

Lenimph wrote...

What if the dead person Varric is mourning over in the trailer is Hawke?

Nor even diplomatic Hawke is so unbadass to die in a random battle
And buddy Varric would shed some tears for sarcastic Hawke, if not him Bianca

[AshenShug4r]

Killing is a pretty weak way to make things 'dark'. There have also been plenty of deaths in the DA series.

[Dabrikishaw]

Let's hope all these deaths don't get retconned.

[kjdhgfiliuhwe]

If this is the "last" game in the series, I'm all for Flemeth winning, and your last action as the playable character coming to the realization that you were just one of many pawns in her machinations, and (yes, irony), all the actions you thought you and the rest of humanity took of their own free will were just strings she pulled for her own ends.



That said, I'm sure the internet would explode in outrage, especially after ME 3's ending, so I'm sure DA: Inq will have some super sanitized hippy dippy chirping flowers good triumphs yawn-inducing climax to the history being told through these three games.

But, I secretly hope it doesn't. 

Modifié par kjdhgfiliuhwe, 11 juin 2013 - 01:38 .

[Il Divo]

kjdhgfiliuhwe wrote...

If this is the "last" game in the series, I'm all for Flemeth winning, and your last action as the playable character coming to the realization that you were just one of many pawns in her machinations, and (yes, irony), all the actions you thought you and the rest of humanity took of their own free will were just strings she pulled for her own ends.



That said, I'm sure the internet would explode in outrage, especially after ME 3's ending, so I'm sure DA: Inq will have some super sanitized hippy dippy chirping flowers good triumphs yawn-inducing climax to the history being told through these three games.

But, I secretly hope it doesn't. 

Well, at the least, Flemeth is an established, manipulative character. That's one thing going for her which the Catalyst didn't have.

[archangel1996]

And they could explain something senseless with real magic

Modifié par archangel1996, 11 juin 2013 - 01:42 .

[AshenShug4r]

kjdhgfiliuhwe wrote...
If this is the "last" game in the series, I'm all for Flemeth winning

No you're not, though I'm not opposed to this being an option. As this is an RPG, there should not be one ending. There should be several different ones with variables that distinguish them from eachother. What about those players who are suspicious of Flemeth and become aware of her machinations?

You shouldn't be able to just rush to your unstoppable doom despite your suspicions, unless you make the wrong choices.

[Northern Sun]

Not that it makes any difference to them, but Bioware has my personal permission to kill any character at any time for any reason.

Have King Alistair get torn to shreds while leading a hopeless defense of Denerim against an invading force (Templars?, mages?, Orlais?)? Check.

Have a companion sacrifice themselves to hold off a horde of those demon things from the trailer? Check.

Have the LI have a stroke and die during the romance scene? Check.

[Tatsumaki]

You want main characters dying, you can play Mass Effect 3 and have that option. There are some people whom play RPG as a diversion from their difficult and hard lives. Call it escapism or what have you, but these forms need not be a replicate of their already difficult and miserable lives thank you very much

[Morty Smith]

Go to Video Options.

Turn Gamma to 0.0.

It wont get any darker.

[iOnlySignIn]

Eterna5 wrote...

But then you'd have another ME3. This fanbase hates reality.

Character deaths are actually the highlights of ME3 that are universally praised. Especially that of Mordin.

The hate ME3 gets is mostly from a completely different source, i.e how stupid the plot on Thessia and after is.

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 11 juin 2013 - 02:42 .

[TK514]

I'm not even vaguely interested in DA getting any darker than it currently is.

[Dave of Canada]

Tatsumaki wrote...

You want main characters dying, you can play Mass Effect 3 and have that option. There are some people whom play RPG as a diversion from their difficult and hard lives. Call it escapism or what have you, but these forms need not be a replicate of their already difficult and miserable lives thank you very much

Then you've got issues which are completely unrelated to the game and shouldn't play darker storylines.

I don't watch depressing movies when I'm depressed.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 11 juin 2013 - 03:23 .

[Xilizhra]

Eh, there's no real need for forced darkness. I believe that much of the darkness level should be up to the individual playthrough, like many other choices.

[David Gaider]

Dragon Age is about difficult decisions, and not always knowing which path is the "right" one. As before, some themes will be dark and others won't be. There will be some disturbing and mature content, some betrayal, some heartache... as well as some comedy and some joy where it can be found.

Beyond that? I doubt we've any interest in pushing the envelope and making Dragon Age darker just for the sake of doing so, nor in engaging in topics over what "dark" consists of-- as if that were some clearly-defined and immutable category. We're also not interested in Dragon Age being all about fantasy escapism, where bad things aren't supposed to happen because they might be upsetting. They will.

If that makes it difficult to plot exactly where Dragon Age lies on the Dark-o-Meter... well, so what? We're not trying to be edgy. Just entertaining. We'll do our best on that front, but as always your personal mileage may vary.

Modifié par David Gaider, 11 juin 2013 - 03:33 .

[FINE HERE]

David Gaider wrote...

Dragon Age is about difficult decisions, and not always knowing which path is the "right" one. As before, some themes will be dark and others won't be. There will be some disturbing and mature content, some betrayal, some heartache... as well as some comedy and some joy where it can be found.

Beyond that? I doubt we've any interest in pushing the envelope and making Dragon Age darker just for the sake of doing so, nor in engaging in topics over what "dark" consists of-- as if that were some clearly-defined and immutable category. We're also not interested in Dragon Age being all about fantasy escapism, where bad things aren't supposed to happen because they might be upsetting. They will.

If that makes it difficult to plot exactly where Dragon Age lies on the Dark-o-Meter... well, so what? We're not trying to be edgy. Just entertaining.

That's good to hear. I like the direction the first two games went with the comedy mixed with the dark. I hope DA:I will be just as balanced and exciting as the first two. Making the game incredibly dark on purpose seems like a bad idea to me.

I'm sorry, the trailer made me really optimistic again! I'm too happy to even consider what I'm typing!

[Welsh Inferno]

That's fair enough David. As long as the dark elements do not just feel like "fail" scenario's all the time were good.

[Iakus]

David Gaider wrote...

Dragon Age is about difficult decisions, and not always knowing which path is the "right" one. As before, some themes will be dark and others won't be. There will be some disturbing and mature content, some betrayal, some heartache... as well as some comedy and some joy where it can be found.

Beyond that? I doubt we've any interest in pushing the envelope and making Dragon Age darker just for the sake of doing so, nor in engaging in topics over what "dark" consists of-- as if that were some clearly-defined and immutable category. We're also not interested in Dragon Age being all about fantasy escapism, where bad things aren't supposed to happen because they might be upsetting. They will.

If that makes it difficult to plot exactly where Dragon Age lies on the Dark-o-Meter... well, so what? We're not trying to be edgy. Just entertaining. We'll do our best on that front, but as always your personal mileage may vary.

After ME3, I hope you'll understand why some of us are a bit concerned about how well that Dark-o-Meter is calibrated