181 réponses à ce sujet

[IanPolaris]

Plaintiff wrote...

trying_touch wrote...

Those who say they're ok and/or happy about a "fall 2014" release date are in a bit of denial. Everyone here felt their hearts drop upon seeing that release date window.

No kidding.

"I'm so happy that I have to wait another year for my piece of cake. It would suck if I could to eat it right now."

Sure but if putting it out this year made our piece of cake as edible as a blacksmith's anvil (or grandmother's infamous holiday fruitcake), we'd never let Bioware hear the end of it, and justifiably so.  If Bioware needs more time, then they need more time.  I have my own doubts (which I have expressed) but that doesn't mean I want to see a game released before it's ready for prime time.

-Polaris

[ziloe]

David Gaider wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...
Near as I can tell it was an honest question by the OP.  Given that the entire schedule for DA:I has been moved back at least a year, what went wrong?  It's not an invalid or silly question.  When games or projects in general get delayed this suddenly and by this much, the natural thing to assume is that something has gone wrong.  The cynical part of me still wonders about this, but to give Bioware credit, they replied and gave an answer.  That answer was essentially, "We need more time to do this right".  At this point you either believe Bioware or you don't.

If the truth was "things really went wrong", we're unlikely to tell you that's the case. If that's what someone believes happened, I'm uncertain why they'd think we'd confide about our tribulations of development on an internet forum. So it's not so much an invalid question so much as a leading one that can't really be answered.

Insofar as delays in development go, they're rarely as sudden as they might appear to the public-- that's more a product of when you learn about them vs. when they happen. Getting more time doesn't guarantee a game ends up being completed and polished... frankly, it's entirely possible for problems to plague development that mean years get wasted, so a game that took 10 years is not necessarily better than one that took 5 or one that took 2.

Those delays can be down to design issues, technology problems (particularly when dealing with a new engine) or -- and this is more likely-- discovering that the time you thought it would take to do X is more than it first seemed due to interdependencies.

Not getting more time when more time is deemed necessary, however, all but guarantees a game won't be polished.

This is true. I just wasn't sure how much you could share Vs how much needed to remain under the table. My friends who do programming always joke about how fixing one problem can inevitably lead to two more.

Do you ever attend Skill Swaps? I think it would be a great experience to hear about the development of past productions and so on. Plus, being the only writer of my group, it can be a little disheartening at times to not hear more about story development, etc. That said, your input would no doubt be a great addition.  

[Renmiri1]

My heart didn't drop at the 2014 fall news. I have been keeping an eye on tweets and leaks and knew DAI wasn't ready for 2013 fall and most likely not ready for xmas 2013. Knowing game companies try to get the xmas season I knew if it wasn't out 2013 it would probably be pushed to 2014 xmas buying.

My heart would have dropped if they had announced "ready in 2-3 months" because in spite of being happy with getting it so soon I know it would be a rushed game. DA2 was a fantastic game that got botched because of all the little corners they had to cut to rush it out. It still is a good game but could have been a lot more. I'm happy dAI will get the chance to be all that it can be.

[ziloe]

Renmiri1 wrote...

My heart didn't drop at the 2014 fall news. I have been keeping an eye on tweets and leaks and knew DAI wasn't ready for 2013 fall and most likely not ready for xmas 2013. Knowing game companies try to get the xmas season I knew if it wasn't out 2013 it would probably be pushed to 2014 xmas buying.

My heart would have dropped if they had announced "ready in 2-3 months" because in spite of being happy with getting it so soon I know it would be a rushed game. DA2 was a fantastic game that got botched because of all the little corners they had to cut to rush it out. It still is a good game but could have been a lot more. I'm happy dAI will get the chance to be all that it can be.

I don't know why people assume it would be rushed. They started working on concepts during DA2's development.

[IanPolaris]

ziloe wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

My heart didn't drop at the 2014 fall news. I have been keeping an eye on tweets and leaks and knew DAI wasn't ready for 2013 fall and most likely not ready for xmas 2013. Knowing game companies try to get the xmas season I knew if it wasn't out 2013 it would probably be pushed to 2014 xmas buying.

My heart would have dropped if they had announced "ready in 2-3 months" because in spite of being happy with getting it so soon I know it would be a rushed game. DA2 was a fantastic game that got botched because of all the little corners they had to cut to rush it out. It still is a good game but could have been a lot more. I'm happy dAI will get the chance to be all that it can be.

I don't know why people assume it would be rushed. They started working on concepts during DA2's development.

Well....given what we were just shown, I think it's fair to say that had Bioware stuck with the 2013 date, DA:I would have been rushed.

-Polaris

[frankf43]

David Gaider wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...
Near as I can tell it was an honest question by the OP.  Given that the entire schedule for DA:I has been moved back at least a year, what went wrong?  It's not an invalid or silly question.  When games or projects in general get delayed this suddenly and by this much, the natural thing to assume is that something has gone wrong.  The cynical part of me still wonders about this, but to give Bioware credit, they replied and gave an answer.  That answer was essentially, "We need more time to do this right".  At this point you either believe Bioware or you don't.

If the truth was "things really went wrong", we're unlikely to tell you that's the case. If that's what someone believes happened, I'm uncertain why they'd think we'd confide about our tribulations of development on an internet forum. So it's not so much an invalid question so much as a leading one that can't really be answered.

Insofar as delays in development go, they're rarely as sudden as they might appear to the public-- that's more a product of when you learn about them vs. when they happen. Getting more time doesn't guarantee a game ends up being completed and polished... frankly, it's entirely possible for problems to plague development that mean years get wasted, so a game that took 10 years is not necessarily better than one that took 5 or one that took 2.

Those delays can be down to design issues, technology problems (particularly when dealing with a new engine) or -- and this is more likely-- discovering that the time you thought it would take to do X is more than it first seemed due to interdependencies.

Not getting more time when more time is deemed necessary, however, all but guarantees a game won't be polished.

This is something that happens in all forms of business. when ever you thought that you have given yourself enough time create a new product every small thing seems to take twice as long as you first imagined.

I can only guess that is magnified ten fold when you add a new games engine into the equation.

Just have to say the trailer looked awesome and I'm happy to see two of my favourite characters back in  the next game.

Take the time you need to make the game you think it should be and I'm sure that 90% of the fan base will love it.

There is just no pleasing t he other 10% anyway.

[Sol Downer]

Plaintiff wrote...

trying_touch wrote...

Those who say they're ok and/or happy about a "fall 2014" release date are in a bit of denial. Everyone here felt their hearts drop upon seeing that release date window.

No kidding.

"I'm so happy that I have to wait another year for my piece of cake. It would suck if I could eat it right now."

What if said cake was just a brick instead of being the light and fluffy cake you were hoping for? Don't push your belief on to other people in thinking that they're in denial. I'd rather Bioware took as much time as possible to avoid hurting not only the game, but their company as a whole. Heck, they could take until 2015 for all I care if that's what it takes.

[Ieldra]

ziloe wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

My heart didn't drop at the 2014 fall news. I have been keeping an eye on tweets and leaks and knew DAI wasn't ready for 2013 fall and most likely not ready for xmas 2013. Knowing game companies try to get the xmas season I knew if it wasn't out 2013 it would probably be pushed to 2014 xmas buying.

My heart would have dropped if they had announced "ready in 2-3 months" because in spite of being happy with getting it so soon I know it would be a rushed game. DA2 was a fantastic game that got botched because of all the little corners they had to cut to rush it out. It still is a good game but could have been a lot more. I'm happy dAI will get the chance to be all that it can be.

I don't know why people assume it would be rushed. They started working on concepts during DA2's development.

DA2 and ME3 were both noticeably rushed. It was not an implausible expectation.

In DAI's case, I'm sure everyone who works on the game is delighted to get more time, but from EA's pure business viewpoint the quality of the game may take second place behind the possible problems caused for a multi-platform game by the console generation change. Also, getting used to the new engine may be a factor.

Personally, of course I'd prefer to have DAI right now and I was surprised by the projected release date, but better an excellent game after a long time than a mediocre one after a short time, whatever the motivations for the longer development time may have been.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 11 juin 2013 - 07:45 .

[Ninja Stan]

The way you're thinking it, all games are rushed by the end, regardless of their development timeline. That's just how games go. There is always a mad rush at the end to finish the game, because everyone knows it's their last chance to debug, polish, and clean up their part of the game before lockdown.

But the initial schedules are generally agreed upon in good faith, and developers create the scope for a game that will (presumably) fit that schedule.

[Ieldra]

Ninja Stan wrote...
The way you're thinking it, all games are rushed by the end, regardless of their development timeline. That's just how games go. There is always a mad rush at the end to finish the game, because everyone knows it's their last chance to debug, polish, and clean up their part of the game before lockdown.

But the initial schedules are generally agreed upon in good faith, and developers create the scope for a game that will (presumably) fit that schedule.

Yes. For that reason I said "noticeably rushed". A lack of polish here and there is normal, but things like the re-used maps in DA2 without even making the effort to cut off the unused parts on the map screen, or the copied combat encounter script used for 95% of all encounters with no regard to common sense, that's really pushing it. In ME3 there was a noticeable lack of complexity in certain certain main plot missions where you could see that something was missing that should've been there. Such things are a reasonable cause for complaints IMO.

[AtreiyaN7]

For the love of God - unless you're talking about games like Duke Nuke 'Em or Aliens: Colonial Marines (which I think are two exceptions to the rule), taking more time on a game generally results in a better game in the long run. It's perfectly acceptable, and I don't see anything to be disappointed about. At most, I'm experiencing a mild twinge of disappointment that it won't be out this year. Fortunately, I'm A) patient and have other games to play during the interim.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 11 juin 2013 - 08:06 .

[ziloe]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

For the love of God - unless you're talking about games like Duke Nuke 'Em or Aliens: Colonial Marines (which I think are two exceptions to the rule), taking more time on a game generally results in a better game in the long run. It's perfectly acceptable, and I don't see anything to be disappointed about. At most, I'm experiencing a mild twinge of disappointment that it won't be out this year. Fortunately, I'm A) patient and have other games to play during the interim.

So you admit a mild twinge of disappointment, where all I said was I was slightly disappointed. Mentioning the fact that I do game design, I saw as being empathetic to the possibility. But it appears people have only seen that as being negative. Goodness. It really makes me feel like I wasn't clear enough in my first post.

[N7recruit]

I'm just more surprised that it will be about 2.5 ish years without a Triple A release from Bioware by the time DAI rolls out. Just Kinda weird to me considering that EA like to alternate between franchise releases each year.

The **** teasing (Lol) was annoying since now we have to wait another few months for anything substantial on the game (CGI trailers are worthless IMO) & 18 or so months for it's bloody release

I was also really underwhelmed by the Reveal trailer, if it's just a CGI trailer then what's the point of going to all the way to E3 to show essentially nothing especially since DAI will most likely be @ e3 2014 for a huge stage demo. Just frustrating all around (only good news was PS4).

But in the long run this is better. Very disappointing now but better in the long run.+ my expectations for the game are now huge so no pressure Bio.

[Scarlet Rabbi]

I was estatic when I saw 'Fall 2014' at the end of the trailer.

The past few months we've all been hearing Bioware staff say and/or imply that they're taking their time with this one, and they will take as much time as deemed necessary to truly create their vision for this game. Honestly, at least to me, all that talking meant jack ****. They did a whole lotta talking before DA2, and I learned that words will collapse and crumble if sufficient action isn't there to hold them up.

Now, after the EA press conference and the gorgeous Inquisition preview, they are actually showing us they're are taking their time to craft this vision, which is a fantastic antidote for the bad taste DA2 left in my mouth. When I saw the projected realease date, I just imagined how much more choices they could add, how much more crisp and tactical the combat could be, and just how much overall quality they could add to the game with a year and some odd months added to the development time.

The preview looked spectacular, Varric, Cassandra and Morrigan all look amazing, and at the end of the clip I was in dire need of moar! They showed us (well, at least me) they are not just talking the talk but doing the damn walk as well by extending the release date. A Bioware that has something to prove is extremely deadly to it's competition, and the fans will win because of that.

[Aolbain]

Sure, I wanted the game released yesterday, but that ain't happening. If waiting another year makes the game better, then go for it.

[Ninja Stan]

schalafi wrote...

I have an idea that would keep me coming to these forums... how about giving us the DLC that was canceled? That would be something to tide us over for the next year and a half, and would give closure for DA:2.

I want to be sure I understand you correctly, schlafi.

You want BioWare to re-schedule DAI two more times--once for stopping DAI to work on DLC, and again for when the DLC is done and they ramp up on DAI--just so you will keep coming to the forums in the meantime? You don't ask for much, do you?

[Reznore57]

That's not really a CGI trailer ,N7 recruit.
They used the game engine to create this...If I understood correctly it could be the quality of the cinematics in game.

Besides the screenshoots shown before the trailer are wonderful , so DA3 should be a really really pretty game compared to DA:O/DA2.

[frankf43]

The talk before the Trailer where we were told it would be an open world where our choices can shape the outcome was all that mattered to me.

If it takes an extra year to achieve this then by all means have it.

One of my only peeves about the previous games was that they were too closed. One of my pet peeves about Skyrim is that nothing I do has any effect in the game.

If they can make a more open world that changes depending on my actions I'm willing to wait for it. I'm champing at the bit to play it but I am more than willing to wait.

Modifié par frankf43, 11 juin 2013 - 08:50 .

[Rixatrix]

I am quite pleased that it is delayed. I would much rather have a better product later than an unfinished and unsatisfying product earlier. I am glad that BioWare values its customers and wants to make sure we are happy with their game.

[Fiery Phoenix]

My take:

DA3 was originally meant to be a current-gen project with a target release window of mid-to-late 2013. For one reason or another (EA anyone?), things changed halfway through development and the plan was extended for the game to be developed for next-gen consoles as well, possibly along with other things.

Basically, the "rumor" that surfaced a few months back, with that EA Shanghai employee's resume, was spot-on. It specifically mentioned that the scope of the project had changed; in retrospect, it would seem that is indeed what happened: a change of scope. If anyone here knows anything about project management, then you guys are probably familiar with what a scope change means and typically entails.

[N7recruit]

Reznore57 wrote...

That's not really a CGI trailer ,N7 recruit.
They used the game engine to create this...If I understood correctly it could be the quality of the cinematics in game.

Besides the screenshoots shown before the trailer are wonderful , so DA3 should be a really really pretty game compared to DA:O/DA2.

Okay but I sincerely doubt the game will look that good when someones sitting down playing it, especially as they have to develope this game for  current gen consoles as well.

Like how manny animations are they going to have to create? I can't see all of them having the same level of polish as in the trailer.

It would be amazing if they could & I don't doubt that this will be the best Bioware has ever done in terms of digital acting but it can't be on Uncharted's level, it would be huge unless the scenes were super linear

[Fiery Phoenix]

The actual game probably won't look quite as detailed as the trailer, even if the trailer was rendered using the same engine (that really doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things). Cinematics and such may very well look the same, but actual gameplay will be toned down a bit.

[bazzag]

Doctor Moustache wrote...

I do think it was foolish of them to ever give a date that was likely to change (and now has), but that said I never really had much faith in it to begin with.  I knew it would get delayed even before the rumor hit, so it doesn't surprise me.  I'm a little surprised its fall and not spring, but either way. 

Its really only good news if you can get past the difficulty of antisipation, which any seasoned gamer should be able to do. 

Why they are still aiming for 360 and ps3 is beyond me though.  I mean I get the profit motive, and that would of made more sense if it really was a 2013 launch, or even early 2014, but a full year into the next gen seems to be pushing reason to me. 

i think its good that they are still planning to release DA3 on current systems aswell as nextgen consoles. I would purchase DA3 for PS, as thats the system i have the other 2 on, but, given the current economic climate, its highly unlikely i'll get a ps4 anytime soon, and i expect many other people throughout the world are in the same situation. Actually, i think its better for them to release it for both generations, as that way it will be available to more people. Besides, sony are still supporting ps2, or if not, only stopped recently, so why not do the same for ps3 and 360.

To answer the topic, i really dont mind why it was delayed, and it was probably always on the cards that it was going to be delayed, as very often these things do. Just as long as the game is awesome, as bioware games very often tend to be. I think what is important is that bware listen to the fans, and understand what the fans want and use it to make an awesome game. So far theyve done that.

[KR4U55]

Some of the posts I wanted to address.

JerZeyCJ2 wrote...

So EA is learning then?

I think they don't want to see another f*ck up. I'm pretty sure they expected to see a blockbuster, considering the great reviews of DA:O. Most probably the game was delayed 'cause of the new engine.

strive wrote...

I wonder if Jade Empire being released during a generation shift influenced the choice of pushing back the release at all. One of the Dr's mentioned that releasing Jade Empire during a generation shift was one of their bigger regrets.

Either way I'm happy the game is getting another year of polish.

JE is one of my favorite games. I'm still waiting to visit Pheonix's Gate. It didn't sell much because in those times the Xbox 360 was about to be launched, but I'm sure there were other factors like bad advertisement or something else. There's the matter of the engine change, but that is probably because of the release in new consoles.

broncos1123 wrote...

This fall 2014 business just sent my interest in this game from a 10 to a zero. Goodbye to these forums, I personally no longer care to hear anything else about this game. It shouldn't take four years to make this game amazing.

Why? Ok, math time: Dragon Age: Origins was released late 2009 (duh), and several DLC were released plus an expasion through 2010. Because of the number of bugs of Awakening and the slighly rushed feeling of Witch Hunt (mostly for the same reason DA 2) I can say Dragon Age ][ started it's development either early 2010 most likely putting all the effort mid 2010.

Dragon Age ][ was something less than 2 years in development and released 2 major DLC pacs during the year it was released. We know there was a third DLC that was canceled. With that we can safely assume DA:I started it's development mid/late 2011, with some of the team working on the DLC. With the engine change (I'm pretty sure Bioware announced they'd be using Frostbite 2) there's a little delay. That gives Dragon Age: Inquisition 2 years and a half, opposed to less than two years.

I'm probably wrong, please correct me.

Modifié par KR4U55, 12 juin 2013 - 04:33 .

[ParatrooperSean]

Ninja Stan wrote...

Just keep in mind that there are many aspects of game development and business that the general public can never know about because they haven't been a part of the process. Even one project under your belt can make a whole of things make way more sense.

Why do you think I keep participating in discussions and seemingly taking the company's side all the time?

Just out of curiosity, was pushing the timeline to the right a fine-tuning "being a profectionist" thing, or was it just the whole project taking a lot longer than expected?

Personally I'm willing to wait even longer if by fall of 2014 you still have bugs and stuff to iron out.