970 réponses à ce sujet

[TobiTobsen]

She's looking older (and more like her mother. But don't tell her that I said that). Fine with me, since it's at least a decade since we last saw her.

She's still hot though. Being voiced by Claudia Black makes you instantly 50% more sexy. True story.

More interesting question: Where is my wardens son?

Modifié par TobiTobsen, 11 juin 2013 - 04:39 .

[sandalisthemaker]

Archaven wrote...

It says actual in-game footage. I'm abit erected honestly. Love what i'm seeing IF that's in-game. The Qunari looks really bad arse now. And I saw Cassandra there. Looks awesome as well.

One thing i wanted to point out is that Morrigan looks awfully ugly. I love her new appearance, dress and etc. But what happened to her mouth and jaw?

Seems that she could swallow a whole toad by that mouth itself. Ugh. I sincerely hope they rework her pointy nose (it looks downright like and old hag) as well as that big jaws and mouth. Eew.

That's what happens when people age. It is common for the jowls to get fuller and a bit saggier. Your nose and ears never stop growing either.

Why must Morrigan be immune to the passage of time? She doesn't want to be (she seems a bit vain in origins IMO). She might try to pull a Flemeth and extend her life by hijacking other women's bodies. Unless of course, Flemeth hasn't already gotten to her.

[Ulfros]

David Gaider wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...
On side note your comment "Possibly people just like dissecting the appearance of female characters. I'm not sure. Maybe it's just something you get used to, or will never like simply because it's different."... No, just no since it comes across to me that your implying misogyny.

Implying nothing. I'll state it outright: there is absolutely a mysoginistic element to the commentary on female characters. It's not specific to Morrigan, but has always been present when it comes to reveals on any female character in the game (and contrasts to the commentary on male characters)-- and I've been witness to enough of it over the years to make that observation. Yes, that is an opinion, but it is mine.

Does that mean one cannot comment on Morrigan without being a mysognist? Of course not. If you'd prefer to pretend the opposite, however, then I call BS.

Treating it as peoples preferences is fine but I think you could of put your points across much nicer and keep in mind you had a hand in fostering that type of discussion to begin with by way of large focus on romance in your games.

As you wish. Your opinions are all precious diamonds to us, absolutely, even the subjective ones. We will collect them in breathless anticipation, and view only the negative opinions as correct. Ideally, these will help us get the characters to the point where nobody could find any fault in their appearances whatsoever.

It won't be me doing that, of course, as I'm not part of the Art department, but don't let that stop you. Comment away.

I don't even.

How are you allowed to moderate these forums? I've never seen such disrespect towards fans as you've shown. 

We are entitled to our opinions. You guys have created games that are important to us, and as such, minor details and changes to those games can evoke a lot of feelings for us. 

Calling people misogynistic for criticising a model that quite frankly could have been better, or belittling their opinions with sarcasm is very unprofessional of you. 

[sandalisthemaker]

Ulfros wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...
On side note your comment "Possibly people just like dissecting the appearance of female characters. I'm not sure. Maybe it's just something you get used to, or will never like simply because it's different."... No, just no since it comes across to me that your implying misogyny.

Implying nothing. I'll state it outright: there is absolutely a mysoginistic element to the commentary on female characters. It's not specific to Morrigan, but has always been present when it comes to reveals on any female character in the game (and contrasts to the commentary on male characters)-- and I've been witness to enough of it over the years to make that observation. Yes, that is an opinion, but it is mine.

Does that mean one cannot comment on Morrigan without being a mysognist? Of course not. If you'd prefer to pretend the opposite, however, then I call BS.

Treating it as peoples preferences is fine but I think you could of put your points across much nicer and keep in mind you had a hand in fostering that type of discussion to begin with by way of large focus on romance in your games.

As you wish. Your opinions are all precious diamonds to us, absolutely, even the subjective ones. We will collect them in breathless anticipation, and view only the negative opinions as correct. Ideally, these will help us get the characters to the point where nobody could find any fault in their appearances whatsoever.

It won't be me doing that, of course, as I'm not part of the Art department, but don't let that stop you. Comment away.

I don't even.

How are you allowed to moderate these forums? I've never seen such disrespect towards fans as you've shown. 

We are entitled to our opinions. You guys have created games that are important to us, and as such, minor details and changes to those games can evoke a lot of feelings for us. 

Calling people misogynistic for criticising a model that quite frankly could have been better, or belittling their opinions with sarcasm is very unprofessional of you. 

Rofl
David's just telling it how it is, man.

[andar91]

Wulfram wrote...

andar91 wrote...

No, I'm pretty sure that was just people judging from one screenshot.

I don't think Gaider is referring to all criticism of character's appearances over time. I think he's referencing the pattern of criticism leveled at female characters in particular. I've only been on here since midway to Origins' release, but I can see it to. The male characters are criticized, but it always seems like the ladies are under the Eye of Sauron far more.

1.  Bioware gives it's scantily clad ladies more prominence.  If the trailer had climaxed with Varric gurning out at us, we'd probably see more comments on him

2.  There's a natural emphasis on people who are potential LIs, and even more on past LIs - I remember lots of women talking about Cullen, complaining about Alistair and Zevran being hit with the ugly stick.  And there's more straight men than women and gay men on the board.  Is that really misogyny? 

3.  Does this justify slathering a quite major slur on peoples character rather indiscriminately over a thread that seems like it was rather polite and well behaved up until that point?

1. There was indeed a lot of commentary on Varric when the trailer first showed. It's since been eclipsed by Morrigan. People have strong feelings about her, true, and that's fair. However, I'm pretty sure that Varric actually had more screentime in the trailer. And the track-record doesn't lie--Merrill had boobs that were too big, Isabela was simultaneously criticized for her sexuality while being objectified as purely sexual, Bethany was TOO HOT TO BE OUR SISTER, and Aveline was too masculine.

2. Love interests...yes, I suppose that is a good point. However, I still do not think that the male LI's receive as much criticism as the female ones. Some? Sure. But that doesn't change the pattern that I mentioned.

3. Gaider is well-known for his snark, and I think that should be taken into account. I doubt he was saying (and I'm not either) that everybody on the forum is a misogynist. However, misogyny creeps its way into many people's attitudes because we (at least America where I'm from-can't speak for other countries as well) come from a misogynistic culture. And the fact remains that women are under way more pressure to look a certain way for men. Men are under pressure too...but not as much. 

[Divine Justinia V]

I really, really like Varric's new look. He's actually attractive (to me) now. It'll definitely take getting used to Morrigan, but I like it.

btw, what was that red monster thing?? It looked cool.

[Wulfram]

Plaintiff wrote...

Whether or not she's real, or has feelings to be hurt, is rather beside the point.

No it's not.  It's not impolite to critique the appearance of a totally fictional person.

[TheRealJayDee]

Yeah, well, as long as Bioware redesigns established characters in ridiculous ways and with the specific purpose of appealing to a broader male audience by making them "moar sexy" I kinda have a hard time taking any Bioware snark on such subjects seriously...

[Wissenschaft]

But but, I love David Gaider's sarcastic comments.......hes my idol for Internet snark.

[Plaintiff]

 I dread the day that Gaider turns his needle-sharp wit on me and pops my ego bubble.

Oh what bitter tears I'll weep.

[Ulfros]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Ulfros wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...
On side note your comment "Possibly people just like dissecting the appearance of female characters. I'm not sure. Maybe it's just something you get used to, or will never like simply because it's different."... No, just no since it comes across to me that your implying misogyny.

Implying nothing. I'll state it outright: there is absolutely a mysoginistic element to the commentary on female characters. It's not specific to Morrigan, but has always been present when it comes to reveals on any female character in the game (and contrasts to the commentary on male characters)-- and I've been witness to enough of it over the years to make that observation. Yes, that is an opinion, but it is mine.

Does that mean one cannot comment on Morrigan without being a mysognist? Of course not. If you'd prefer to pretend the opposite, however, then I call BS.

Treating it as peoples preferences is fine but I think you could of put your points across much nicer and keep in mind you had a hand in fostering that type of discussion to begin with by way of large focus on romance in your games.

As you wish. Your opinions are all precious diamonds to us, absolutely, even the subjective ones. We will collect them in breathless anticipation, and view only the negative opinions as correct. Ideally, these will help us get the characters to the point where nobody could find any fault in their appearances whatsoever.

It won't be me doing that, of course, as I'm not part of the Art department, but don't let that stop you. Comment away.

I don't even.

How are you allowed to moderate these forums? I've never seen such disrespect towards fans as you've shown. 

We are entitled to our opinions. You guys have created games that are important to us, and as such, minor details and changes to those games can evoke a lot of feelings for us. 

Calling people misogynistic for criticising a model that quite frankly could have been better, or belittling their opinions with sarcasm is very unprofessional of you. 

Rofl
David's just telling it how it is, man.

No he's not. He's being very rude.

Morrigan is a legend in Dragon Age lore. Most of us took Morrigan heroine in DA:O, because of how awesome she was, and then never had it again. For years, there's been speculation as to what became of her, the warden, the child, etc. Now Bioware played the Morrigan card (and rightly so) to create hype for the game. And once we discuss her, they call us misogynistic? 

I know Varric was shown as well, but to be frank with you I didn't care at all for his character, nor very much for the game he was in. I'm glad he's back, but he doesn't mean as much to me as Morrigan does. But ah - taking an interest in a female makes you a chauvinist pig, I forgot. 

[Welsh Inferno]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Rofl
David's just telling it how it is, man.

You can tell it how it is without being snarky to fans.

[Plaintiff]

Wulfram wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Whether or not she's real, or has feelings to be hurt, is rather beside the point.

No it's not.  It's not impolite to critique the appearance of a totally fictional person.

If she's fictional, her appearance is irrelevent. Even if she is ugly, so what? Fictional characters are allowed to be.

[andar91]

Wulfram wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Whether or not she's real, or has feelings to be hurt, is rather beside the point.

No it's not.  It's not impolite to critique the appearance of a totally fictional person.

Morrigan may not be real, but to pretend that the way people view fictional characters isn't (or at least, could be) a reflection of real-world attitudes would be foolish in my opinion.

"It's okay to call Isabela names because of how she dresses because she's not real! This totally doesn't express anything about how I view women in the real world!" No.

"I can say whatever I want about gay people that are fictional! They aren't real." As a gay guy, I call BS on that as well.

[sandalisthemaker]

andar91 wrote...

3. Gaider is well-known for his snark, and I think that should be taken into account. I doubt he was saying (and I'm not either) that everybody on the forum is a misogynist. However, misogyny creeps its way into many people's attitudes because we (at least America where I'm from-can't speak for other countries as well) come from a misogynistic culture. And the fact remains that women are under way more pressure to look a certain way for men. Men are under pressure too...but not as much. 

I will add that, due to America's patriarchal culture, men are under considerably less pressure to look good than women. The physical standards are not as high nor are they as desirable to achieve since most men don't have a chance of measuring up to them. The pressures on women are sky high. 
Men are lauded for their accomplishments. Women are lauded for their appearance (because of male dominated culture).

[Plaintiff]

Ulfros wrote...
No he's not. He's being very rude.

Morrigan is a legend in Dragon Age lore. Most of us took Morrigan heroine in DA:O, because of how awesome she was, and then never had it again. For years, there's been speculation as to what became of her, the warden, the child, etc. Now Bioware played the Morrigan card (and rightly so) to create hype for the game. And once we discuss her, they call us misogynistic?

Morrigan is sooooooooooooo awesome, but the only aspect of her worth talking about is her appearance.

Gotcha.

[Dutchess]

Plaintiff wrote...

Ulfros wrote...
No he's not. He's being very rude.

Morrigan is a legend in Dragon Age lore. Most of us took Morrigan heroine in DA:O, because of how awesome she was, and then never had it again. For years, there's been speculation as to what became of her, the warden, the child, etc. Now Bioware played the Morrigan card (and rightly so) to create hype for the game. And once we discuss her, they call us misogynistic?

Morrigan is sooooooooooooo awesome, but the only aspect of her worth talking about is her appearance.

Gotcha.

Because her appearance is what we saw in the trailer and thus the only new friggin' thing of her to talk about.

[GreyLycanTrope]

She's still Morrigan.

[Ulfros]

Plaintiff wrote...

Ulfros wrote...
No he's not. He's being very rude.

Morrigan is a legend in Dragon Age lore. Most of us took Morrigan heroine in DA:O, because of how awesome she was, and then never had it again. For years, there's been speculation as to what became of her, the warden, the child, etc. Now Bioware played the Morrigan card (and rightly so) to create hype for the game. And once we discuss her, they call us misogynistic?

Morrigan is sooooooooooooo awesome, but the only aspect of her worth talking about is her appearance.

Gotcha.

When did I say that? This thread is about her appearance, and I've given my opinions on it. That is all.

I've also stated several times that it isn't merely her good looks that hooked me back in the day, but rather the interesting character which lies beneath. I love the fact (as I said earlier) that she reminds me of some sort of woodland nymph or witch that lures you in, then reveals her ugly interior, and then again takes you unaware by showing a more interesting and humane personality - once you start digging. She's a complex person, and that's why I remember her. That, and that my Warden and her eventually hooked up and she just left him there.

It's sort of a Game of Thrones-thing, like with Jamie or 'The Hound'. 

Modifié par Ulfros, 11 juin 2013 - 04:54 .

[Wulfram]

Plaintiff wrote...

Morrigan is sooooooooooooo awesome, but the only aspect of her worth talking about is her appearance.

Gotcha.

We didn't really learn anything about her except her appearance in this trailer.

Well, I suppose I could say that I found it a bit odd that she talked about faith lying in ashes as if it were a bad thing - DA:O would have been rather smug about that, I guess.  But I'm really not sure if that's character developement or just her being used as generic narrator.

Plaintiff wrote...

If she's fictional, her appearance is irrelevent. Even if she is ugly, so what? Fictional characters are allowed to be.

Fictional characters should still look like themselves, and should avoid looking unnatural unless it's a deliberate piece of characterisation.  Also characters who are treated as attractive in universe should be attractive.

Casting me as Adonis would, alas, be a poor decision.

Modifié par Wulfram, 11 juin 2013 - 04:55 .

[craigdolphin]

Plaintiff wrote...

 I dread the day that Gaider turns his needle-sharp wit on me and pops my ego bubble.

Oh what bitter tears I'll weep.

Have a care...he has stated he feeds on our tears. Do not poke the dragon with that pointy stick you're waving around!

[Dragoonlordz]

Plaintiff wrote...

Whether or not she's real, or has feelings to be hurt, is rather beside the point.

Nonsense. It is no different to saying this character looks odd, his jaw looks out of proportion and just not right.



Her facial polygon features to me is no different though less extreme. Her jaw and lips when mouth closed looks fine but when open it appears distorted to me and odd. From the curvature of the lips on the character model to the jawline when the mouth is opened. I am beginning to get concerned about lack of distinction to some people between what is real and what is a work of fiction.

[sandalisthemaker]

andar91 wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Whether or not she's real, or has feelings to be hurt, is rather beside the point.

No it's not.  It's not impolite to critique the appearance of a totally fictional person.

Morrigan may not be real, but to pretend that the way people view fictional characters isn't (or at least, could be) a reflection of real-world attitudes would be foolish in my opinion.

"It's okay to call Isabela names because of how she dresses because she's not real! This totally doesn't express anything about how I view women in the real world!" No.

"I can say whatever I want about gay people that are fictional! They aren't real." As a gay guy, I call BS on that as well.

Okay, so now there are 3 gay guys (you, Plaintiff, and myself) discussing the veiled mysogyny beneath the critisizm of female characters in games.  This amuses me.

[Plaintiff]

renjility wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Ulfros wrote...
No he's not. He's being very rude.

Morrigan is a legend in Dragon Age lore. Most of us took Morrigan heroine in DA:O, because of how awesome she was, and then never had it again. For years, there's been speculation as to what became of her, the warden, the child, etc. Now Bioware played the Morrigan card (and rightly so) to create hype for the game. And once we discuss her, they call us misogynistic?

Morrigan is sooooooooooooo awesome, but the only aspect of her worth talking about is her appearance.

Gotcha.

Because her appearance is what we saw in the trailer and thus the only new friggin' thing of her to talk about.

- Speculate about her character growth.
- Theorize about her role in the story.
- What do you think she's been doing since she left?
- How many words can you make by rearranging the letters of her name?

That's just off the top of my head.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 11 juin 2013 - 04:55 .