970 réponses à ce sujet

[HurricaneGinger]

 Does anyone remember the first Varric and Cassandra reveal? Their design was totally different, and look at how much they were redesigned up to the game's release. I imagine BioWare may make a few tweaks in appearences, and if they don't, I'm okay with that. I can still recognize them. (Cassandra's cheekbones are like WAY out there though. O_o)

I'm still floored that was ingame footage. I loved every second of it.

[Battlebloodmage]

Ulfros wrote...

MissOuJ wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Implying nothing. I'll state it outright: there is absolutely a mysoginistic element to the commentary on female characters. It's not specific to Morrigan, but has always been present when it comes to reveals on any female character in the game (and contrasts to the commentary on male characters)-- and I've been witness to enough of it over the years to make that observation. Yes, that is an opinion, but it is mine.

Does that mean one cannot comment on Morrigan without being a mysognist? Of course not. If you'd prefer to pretend the opposite, however, then I call BS.

You, my good sir, are awesome, and this comment is awesome and 120% spot-on! Thank you.

Bioware:

- Creates some of the most sexist games in the industry, always emphasising muscular, chisel-jawed men and half-naked volumptious women. Never forgets to place unessesary romance options and sex scenes in there!

- Goes on to bash its own fans for being misogynistic for criticising their poor work.

LOGIC! 

You pretty much described almost every game out there.

[sandalisthemaker]

Ulfros wrote...

Bioware:

- Creates some of the most sexist games in the industry, always emphasising muscular, chisel-jawed men and half-naked volumptious women. Never forgets to place unessesary romance options and sex scenes in there!

- Goes on to bash its own fans for being misogynistic for criticising their poor work.

LOGIC! 

The bolded is most certainly not true.

Modifié par sandalisthemaker, 11 juin 2013 - 06:11 .

[Mojenator12345]

BW has made plenty of derpy-looking face models. The new Morrigan is just the latest. That's what the mod community is for, god bless 'em.

[David Gaider]

Ulfros wrote...
Creates some of the most sexist games in the industry

Riiiight.

LOGIC! 

By varying definitions of "logic", evidently.

[PillarBiter]

 Morrigan: At first I was like... what the hell did they do with my beautiful young morrigan? But then I realised, hey, it's a lot of years further, she's seen a lot of war, it's normal she would look more aged. That said, I think she still looks fierce, and that's the main attribute I coined for my morrigan. I kinda love it now

Varric: Same thing: At first: what the heck? But after: hey, he looks like he kind of lost a lot of things. This might make varric a totally different person, in stead of his bromance joke-a-thon in DA2. This could be interesting.

Cassandra: No, not at all. What's with the UFG champion jaw? I loved her look from in the movie, I would like to see her return more to that, if possible. I mean, yeah, they can do the same as with morrigan and varric, but still... they totally changed her face.

[Plaintiff]

In my leisure time, I carve marble sculptures with my chisel-jaw.

[ThisIsZad]

David Gaider wrote...

Welsh Inferno wrote...
Also is the sarcastic attitude really necessary David?

Sarcasm is always necessary.

PRAISE THE DRAGON!

[Zekka]

Everyone voice your opinions now because the game has a year and a half still in development so bioware knows what we like or dislike, then they can later change it.

OT: I didn't know norrigan was that beautiful before. They should just fix thr lips and hairstyle.

Varric looks younger but I guess it is the clean shave.

Cassandra looks wayy uglier.

[MissOuJ]

ThisIsZad wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Welsh Inferno wrote...
Also is the sarcastic attitude really necessary David?

Sarcasm is always necessary.

PRAISE THE DRAGON!

Hear hear!

[sandalisthemaker]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Welsh Inferno wrote...
Also is the sarcastic attitude really necessary David?

Sarcasm is always necessary.

So female devs not liking Thane's design and it being changed to make him sexier isn't sexist by the same logic?
I find this silly.  The only reason Morrigan looks the way she does is because some dev or devs thinks she looks good this way.  It's also subjective nonsense and is categorically no better than random forumite #125,968's opinion on it.

The only difference is that devs get their way because they control what actually goes into the game.  Nobody is disputing that and I'm not arguing it should be another way.  It's still unnecessarily combative and condescending to flippantly point out how irrelevant fan opinons are based on nothing but a power dynamic. There's no reason to violently squash an opinion just because it exists and you can. 

I'm pretty sure this doesn't matter to you, but my respect for you (which used to be substantial) has drastically diminished because of comments like this. 

Thane is a frog man. (I have nothing against him, I like him as a character) not a human male. Also, I don't see anything sexualized about him.
However, the female LI's in Mass effect are a totally different story.

[Ulfros]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

Ulfros wrote...

MissOuJ wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Implying nothing. I'll state it outright: there is absolutely a mysoginistic element to the commentary on female characters. It's not specific to Morrigan, but has always been present when it comes to reveals on any female character in the game (and contrasts to the commentary on male characters)-- and I've been witness to enough of it over the years to make that observation. Yes, that is an opinion, but it is mine.

Does that mean one cannot comment on Morrigan without being a mysognist? Of course not. If you'd prefer to pretend the opposite, however, then I call BS.

You, my good sir, are awesome, and this comment is awesome and 120% spot-on! Thank you.

Bioware:

- Creates some of the most sexist games in the industry, always emphasising muscular, chisel-jawed men and half-naked volumptious women. Never forgets to place unessesary romance options and sex scenes in there!

- Goes on to bash its own fans for being misogynistic for criticising their poor work.

LOGIC! 

You pretty much described almost every game out there.

At least other game developers don't criticise their own fans for hopping on the bandwagon. Its the hypocrisy that gets me.  Bioware does focus a lot on character looks, and character design frequently follows contemporary misgogynistic stereotypes. Just look at Hawke or Isabela, original Morrigan, or half the cast of Mass Effect.

Modifié par Ulfros, 11 juin 2013 - 06:19 .

[archangel1996]

Discussion on track? Just wait for a dev so he can make an argument out of it 

Really, after being here therapy is advised

Modifié par archangel1996, 11 juin 2013 - 06:22 .

[sandalisthemaker]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...
Thane is a frog man. (I have nothing against him, I like him as a character) not a human male. Also, I don't see anything sexualized about him.
However, the female LI's in Mass effect are a totally different story.

I am referring to this which talks about Thane's design being at least partially based on him being physically appealing to female devs in anticipation of him being an LI.

If they really wanted him to be appealing to females, I would think that they wouldn't have made him a frog man.
Although, since many females love him as an LI, it just reinforces the point that a man's looks don't matter, he can still get the girl in the end.
The female LI's however are almost all human, skantily clad, and have their asses all over the screen. 
You don't see any non human female LI's in mass effect whose physical appearance isn't designed to be beautiful first and foremost.
The reason why Turian women didn't exist until the Omega DLC was because the designers couldn't figure out a way to make them "Sexy."

[CroGamer002]

I love their new looks!

Though, I do find it weird for Morrigan to be in dress.
And Varric without shown chest hair feels like betrayal, though fixable if we can romance him and get him to show it once again.

[fiveforchaos]

JamieCOTC wrote...

I didn't care for the cartoonish style of DA2 at all, so I love the new style 1000 times more. I actually like Cassandra's new look better, she's tough looking, as though she's been through hell and back. Morrigan looks like Morrigan only better. Varrik is the only one that looks "off" to me. Then again, it just may be the circumstances. We've never seen him in despair.

Weird thing about Varric for me, I've been reading the comics recently, and it's been awhile since I've played DA2, so when I first saw Varric in the trailer, my initial reaction was "Oh man, Varric! and he looks exactly like I'd imagine him to look like in High Def, signature red Kerchief and everything! Then people started commenting on how he "looked off" and asking where his chest hair was and I realized I'd only begun associating the red kericheif look with Varric after reading the comics. I think his bone structure in the trailer also fits the comics a bit more as well. Which I guess is good for me, because know his new appearance is just as, if not more iconic for me as the old one. 

[Dragoonlordz]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...
Thane is a frog man. (I have nothing against him, I like him as a character) not a human male. Also, I don't see anything sexualized about him.
However, the female LI's in Mass effect are a totally different story.

I am referring to this which talks about Thane's design being at least partially based on him being physically appealing to female devs in anticipation of him being an LI.

If they really wanted him to be appealing to females, I would think that they wouldn't have made him a frog man.
Although, since many females love him as an LI, it just reinforces the point that a man's looks don't matter, he can still get the girl in the end.
The female LI's however are almost all human, skantily clad, and have their asses all over the screen. 
You don't see any non human female LI's in mass effect whose physical appearance isn't designed to be beautiful first and foremost.
The reason why Turian women didn't exist until the Omega DLC was because the designers couldn't figure out a way to make them "Sexy."

Because clearly Liara was human.... The reality is they try to make both gendered characters attractive in their games. The only difference it appears is when a fan asks for attractive traits he is out of line on here it seems.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 11 juin 2013 - 06:27 .

[The Six Path of Pain]

You know I thought Varric and Morrigan looked way different at first.But seeing a side by side comparison they actually don't look much different,so i'm happy with them:) Cassandra...yeah they need to work on her

[sandalisthemaker]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...
Thane is a frog man. (I have nothing against him, I like him as a character) not a human male. Also, I don't see anything sexualized about him.
However, the female LI's in Mass effect are a totally different story.

I am referring to this which talks about Thane's design being at least partially based on him being physically appealing to female devs in anticipation of him being an LI.

If they really wanted him to be appealing to females, I would think that they wouldn't have made him a frog man.
Although, since many females love him as an LI, it just reinforces the point that a man's looks don't matter, he can still get the girl in the end.
The female LI's however are almost all human, skantily clad, and have their asses all over the screen. 
You don't see any non human female LI's in mass effect whose physical appearance isn't designed to be beautiful first and foremost.
The reason why Turian women didn't exist until the Omega DLC was because the designers couldn't figure out a way to make them "Sexy."

Because clearly Liara was human....

There, I bolded it for you.

[Plaintiff]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...
Thane is a frog man. (I have nothing against him, I like him as a character) not a human male. Also, I don't see anything sexualized about him.
However, the female LI's in Mass effect are a totally different story.

I am referring to this which talks about Thane's design being at least partially based on him being physically appealing to female devs in anticipation of him being an LI.

If they really wanted him to be appealing to females, I would think that they wouldn't have made him a frog man.
Although, since many females love him as an LI, it just reinforces the point that a man's looks don't matter, he can still get the girl in the end.
The female LI's however are almost all human, skantily clad, and have their asses all over the screen. 
You don't see any non human female LI's in mass effect whose physical appearance isn't designed to be beautiful first and foremost.
The reason why Turian women didn't exist until the Omega DLC was because the designers couldn't figure out a way to make them "Sexy."

Because clearly Liara was human....

Hence the qualifier 'almost'.

I'm willing to bet money that the character designers don't spend nearly as much time thinking about a character's appearance as this forum does complaining about it.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 11 juin 2013 - 06:27 .

[archangel1996]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...
Thane is a frog man. (I have nothing against him, I like him as a character) not a human male. Also, I don't see anything sexualized about him.
However, the female LI's in Mass effect are a totally different story.

I am referring to this which talks about Thane's design being at least partially based on him being physically appealing to female devs in anticipation of him being an LI.

If they really wanted him to be appealing to females, I would think that they wouldn't have made him a frog man.
Although, since many females love him as an LI, it just reinforces the point that a man's looks don't matter, he can still get the girl in the end.
The female LI's however are almost all human, skantily clad, and have their asses all over the screen. 
You don't see any non human female LI's in mass effect whose physical appearance isn't designed to be beautiful first and foremost.
The reason why Turian women didn't exist until the Omega DLC was because the designers couldn't figure out a way to make them "Sexy."

I'm sorry i'm lost, so you're saying that we are all pigs included the male devs that made 'em that way in the first place? But we (users) are also mysoginsit cuz we give our subjective opinion about Morrigan's look?

[Iakus]

David Gaider wrote...

Ulfros wrote...
Creates some of the most sexist games in the industry

Riiiight.

The above statement is certainly a gross exageration.  But you cannot deny that Bioware has, how shall I put this politely...followed the example of other game developers in creating, umm "unrealistic" physical portrayals of men and women.

I'm not saying Morrigan in the trailer is one such example.  But it has happened.   

[Renmiri1]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...
Thane is a frog man. (I have nothing against him, I like him as a character) not a human male. Also, I don't see anything sexualized about him.
However, the female LI's in Mass effect are a totally different story.

I am referring to this which talks about Thane's design being at least partially based on him being physically appealing to female devs in anticipation of him being an LI.

Yup and then they killed him. 

But that was another department so not fair harassing DA devs and writers about it