970 réponses à ce sujet

[Mello]

sandellniklas wrote...

If a player cannot connect with the returning character because Bioware have changed their looks, well, that kind of lessens the experience. Not in a game-breaking way, but to some degree anyway. I copied this from another thread because I think it is a legitimate concern and observation that the character of Cassandra looks different:

I tried to make a quick photoshop manip (Bigger version here) of a Cassandra that looked more like her DA2 counterpart while still being very recognizable from the one in the DA:I trailer.



Number one is of course DA2. Number two is the original Inquisition trailer look. Number three lastly is the somewhat morphed face I did in photoshop.

To break down the changes:

1. Made the eyebrows more natural and less arched. Moved them down a bit to better fit the face. Also closer to her DA2 look.
2. Moved the eyes ever so slightly toward the center of the face, also changed the angle ever so slightly.
3. Moved the nose down a bit and made it look less concave. Again to better suit the face and how she looked in DA2.
4. Made her mouth/lips a bit smaller.
5. Chisled her jaw a bit. Kept her chin as it were in the trailer but gave her a more slender/feminine jawline without making her look too girly.

I think the end result is a fairly good compromise of DA2 Cassandra and the new one we got in the Inquisition trailer. I'm fairly certain the artists at Bioware will change Cassandra's look over this coming year, but I just wanted to make something that looked more like how I remember Cassandra.

I think you did a good job 

[sandalisthemaker]

fiveforchaos wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...
Thane is a frog man. (I have nothing against him, I like him as a character) not a human male. Also, I don't see anything sexualized about him.
However, the female LI's in Mass effect are a totally different story.

I am referring to this which talks about Thane's design being at least partially based on him being physically appealing to female devs in anticipation of him being an LI.

If they really wanted him to be appealing to females, I would think that they wouldn't have made him a frog man.
Although, since many females love him as an LI, it just reinforces the point that a man's looks don't matter, he can still get the girl in the end.
The female LI's however are almost all human, skantily clad, and have their asses all over the screen. 
You don't see any non human female LI's in mass effect whose physical appearance isn't designed to be beautiful first and foremost.
The reason why Turian women didn't exist until the Omega DLC was because the designers couldn't figure out a way to make them "Sexy."

Yeah... I've read that article about Thane's design, I've seen his outfits, I know his character arc. He was most definitely 100% meant to be a sexualized character, a piece of eye candy for someone to lust after. Or do you think that low neckline was to "help his breathing". Fenris and Sebastion were also, clearly, designed with the same thought in mind. 

I do however, agree with you that females are generally less picky and likely more focused on the character rather than their appearance. I mean, they compaigned to have Garrus as an LI for gods sakes.

Yes, a green, scaly, anthropomorphic, reptilian/amphibian, with creepy bulbous eyes (this is just the first impression, before you get to know him as a character) is surely designed to be man candy first and formost. Let me tell you. 
He was designed to look cool first and foremost, as was Garrus. The romantic appeal comes by and large from their personalities.
The female LI's by contrast were designed with sex appeal with their appearance first and foremost.
Take away Liara's blue skin and tentacle hair and she is a beautiful human woman.
Take away Thane's green skin and Garrus's grey skin, and they are still bizarre alien creatures. 
Also, Tali looks pretty much like a human woman as well (face wise) under that helmet.

Modifié par sandalisthemaker, 11 juin 2013 - 07:53 .

[Teukki]

Dragoonlordz - that's what I meant, because to me it didn't sound like it was her in the trailer. But I'm so gladly wrong about this. Just for her talent, I'd buy this game. Just because of that. I couldn't imagine someone other than Harrison Ford being Indiana Jones or Han Solo either.

Let's hope this is the case and it is really Claudia Black. There's so much for many people to learn about how voice-acting should be done. Many companies treat their characters and actors as crap, never really giving them "life".

[Dragoonlordz]

Teukki wrote...

Dragoonlordz - that's what I meant, because to me it didn't sound like it was her in the trailer. But I'm so gladly wrong about this. Just for her talent, I'd buy this game. Just because of that. I couldn't imagine someone other than Harrison Ford being Indiana Jones or Han Solo either.

Let's hope this is the case and it is really Claudia Black. There's so much for many people to learn about how voice-acting should be done. Many companies treat their characters and actors as crap, never really giving them "life".

It was Claudia in the trailer. I picked up on that within moments. At first I thought hmm sounds bit like Flemmeth then after few seconds some of her speech began to ring bells and knew was her. If it was not her then Bioware have hired one hell of a good impersonator.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 11 juin 2013 - 07:51 .

[Teukki]

Dragoonlordz - let's hope it's indeed how you said. Thank you.

[frankf43]

I like the new looks they look realer less cartoony than they did in the previous games.

[wright1978]

It was definitely Claudia Black. Watched too much with her in it for that to take me more than a second to recognise.

[Dragoonlordz]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Yes, a green, scaly, anthropomorphic, reptilian/amphibian, with creepy bulbous eyes (this is just the first impression, before you get to know him as a character) is surely designed to be man candy first and formost. Let me tell you. 
He was designed to look cool first and foremost, as was Garrus. The romantic appeal comes by and large from their personalities.
The female LI's by contrast were designed with sex appeal with their appearance first and foremost.
Take away Liara's blue skin and tentacle hair and she is a beautiful human woman.
Take away Thane's green skin and Garrus's grey skin, and they are still bizarre alien creatures. 
Also, Tali looks pretty much like a human woman as well (face wise) under that helmet.

I assume you realise your calling Bioware misogynistic in their creation of female characters. The same is the case for the DA team in sense if apply your own personal bias as so many in here are doing then there's Bethany's cleavage, Isabella's clothing choice, Merrills 'moe' esque physical frailty could also be applied.  Worth remembering no developer ever sets out to make 'ugly' player character or companion characters unless the game is satire or main character is like an undead rotting zombie. This is case for both male and female ones even in Biowares games.

Do you think they made Liliana or Morrigan in DAO the way there were because they wanted generic, bland female appearances for them or because they wanted them to be attractive as possible without breaking the boundries of the persona's. Varric's bare chest was for exmaple to me a physical desire to make him more 'manly' and attractive. Anders never had a giant wart for a head, his face was originally percieved as attractive in appearance and same for Zevran which is what led to many of the complaints after they changed it in DA2.

Some of the biggest complaints was with DA2 male characters Anders and Alistair, much of which was complaints not just about personality difference between Anders DAA and DA2 but also mostly about appearance in respect to many calling them ugly in DA2. This was alongside complaint's about Merrills percieved anorexic appearance and Isabella's sexually assertive persona and appearance. In the end what annoys me most is the hypocrisy of Bioware complaining about their perception of their own fans being misogynistic while creating potentially misogynistic content which even you admit to in your post I quoted.

People are not screaming "give her bigger boobs!" or "more emphasised arse!" and not even "replace the dresses with bikini's!", they are saying please improve the jaw line, or the lips seem slightly off when in movement or not the worlds biggest fan of the hair etc.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 11 juin 2013 - 08:36 .

[frankf43]

wright1978 wrote...

It was definitely Claudia Black. Watched too much with her in it for that to take me more than a second to recognise.

Yes watched too much SG1 to mistake her voice.  Definitely Vala Mal Doron.

[DiegoRaphael]

I also think it was Claudia's voice, i recognize it immediately as the trailer started.
But the tone was not as deep as the one she did in DA:O

[Dragoonlordz]

frankf43 wrote...

I like the new looks they look realer less cartoony than they did in the previous games.

It seems a vast improvement over DA2 visuals. For most part all the complaints people have seem to be minor but exist nevertheless for each individual which makes them.

[sandalisthemaker]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Yes, a green, scaly, anthropomorphic, reptilian/amphibian, with creepy bulbous eyes (this is just the first impression, before you get to know him as a character) is surely designed to be man candy first and formost. Let me tell you. 
He was designed to look cool first and foremost, as was Garrus. The romantic appeal comes by and large from their personalities.
The female LI's by contrast were designed with sex appeal with their appearance first and foremost.
Take away Liara's blue skin and tentacle hair and she is a beautiful human woman.
Take away Thane's green skin and Garrus's grey skin, and they are still bizarre alien creatures. 
Also, Tali looks pretty much like a human woman as well (face wise) under that helmet.

I assume you realise your calling Bioware misogynistic in their creation of female characters. The same is the case for the DA team in sense if apply your own personal bias as so many in here are doing then there's Bethany's cleavage, Isabella's clothing choice, Merrills 'moe' esque physical frailty could also be applied.  Worth remembering no developer ever sets out to make 'ugly' player character or companion characters unless the game is satire or main character is like an undead rotting zombie. This is case for both male and female ones even in Biowares games.

Do you think they made Liliana or Morrigan in DAO the way there were because they wanted generic, bland female appearances for them or because they wanted them to be attractive as possible without breaking the boundries of the persona's. Varric's bare chest was for exmaple to me a physical desire to make him more 'manly' and attractive. Anders never had a giant wart for a head, his face was originally percieved as attractive in appearance and same for Zevran which is what led to many of the complaints after they changed it in DA2.

Some of the biggest complaints was with DA2 male characters Anders and Alistair, much of which was complaints not just about personality difference between Anders DAA and DA2 but also mostly about appearance in respect to many calling them ugly in DA2. This was alongside complaint's about Merrills percieved anorexic appearance and Isabella's sexually assertive persona and appearance. In the end what annoys me most is the hypocrisy of Bioware complaining about their perception of their own fans being misogynistic while creating potentially misogynistic content which even you admit to in your post I quoted.

People are not screaming "give her bigger boobs!" or "more emphasised arse!" and not even "replace the dresses with bikini's!", they are saying please improve the jaw line, or the lips seem slightly off when in movement or not the worlds biggest fan of the hair etc.

This is a reflection of the industry as a whole. Not just Bioware. In all games, the straight male demographic is pandered to the most. This is a fact. So of course all main females in the games are going to be beautiful because "sex sells."  I feel that it goes too far in many games.  Bioware is better than most, especially Dragon Age, but I take issue with Mass Effect when it comes to the oversexualization of females.
Just look at EDI. Was her cameltoe really necessary? 

Modifié par sandalisthemaker, 11 juin 2013 - 08:47 .

[Blackrising]

I don't mind the new designs.
Cassandra is, I think, very pretty in the trailer. I don't know what people have against her jaw. Plus, I like the slight change to her hair and I can't wait to see her in the actual game.
Varric is still the hottest dwarf in Thedas.
Morrigan is very well made. Granted, she looks a lot like Lulu from FFX, but Lulu was badass. She looks fine, though when she talks her mouth seems to be a bit too far up for a moment. I can live with that. *shrug*

So yeah, I think a lot of you guys are overreacting. So Morrigan/Cassandra/Varric doesn't look like you remember them and it may be a bad change in your opinion. Who cares? They're still awesome characters.
(I hated Sten's look in DA:O. Didn't stop me from wanting to romance the **** out of him. It's all about the personality, baby.)

[LTD]

I much like the gritty, touch uglified realism faces on trailer are busy reflecting.

It'd be awesome to finally get DA 2, been ages a-comin.

Modifié par LTD, 11 juin 2013 - 08:50 .

[nijnij]

Can't believe I just did this (sorry for the sloppy job) but there, you get the idea... Varric looks just fine sans plugs!

Modifié par nijnij, 11 juin 2013 - 08:53 .

[Unknown_Warrior]

Wow, David Gaider is acting like a serious ass in this thread.
It's not so much her being conventionally "ugly" (or should I say; unattractive) as it is not being able to relate with her due to us being accustomed to her previous look.

Fans did the same thing for Cole MacGrath from InFamous 1 & 2 after Sucker Punch changed his look inbetween games too, and I doubt that was due to rabid misandry from their fans. (They did eventually make a concession to make him resemble his previous self more)

For the record, I don't really care either way (especially since I never cared much for Morrigan). But this ridiculous "It's not us, it's you! You're just being MISOGYNISTIC!" is rubbing me wrong in a million and one ways.

Modifié par Unknown_Warrior, 11 juin 2013 - 09:07 .

[David Gaider]

Unknown_Warrior wrote...
For the record, I don't really care either way (especially since I never cared much for Morrigan). But this ridiculous "It's not us, it's you! You're just being MISOGYNISTIC!" is rubbing me wrong in a million and one ways.

That's what I'm saying, is it?

Sigh.

For the record, just go back and look at the forum commentary on various characters-- female ones in particular-- from previous games. Tell me how much you think those comments still applied once the game came out, and how much of it was just knee-jerk and/or outright ridiculous. All of it? Doubtful. Much of it? If not that, then wildly subjective in a way that doesn't lend itself to being useful to us in any manner.

Is it complicated by the fact these are returning characters? Sure. Doesn't change what I said, insofar as "commentary on appearances are highly suspect" goes. Does that mean all opinions are therefore invalid, and anyone who says something negative about a female character is a raging mysoginist? Only on the internet.

Feel free to make your opinion heard, if you like. Sounds great. I'll leave you all to it.

[panamakira]

At first I thought she looked completely different but I recognized who she was right away. I don't hate it or anything, I recognize that they have a new engine, hence the changes on Varric. I think they were maybe trying to age her a bit? (it's been a while since DA:O).

[Sable Rhapsody]

Unknown_Warrior wrote...
It's not so much her being conventionally "ugly" (or should I say; unattractive) as it is not being able to relate with her due to us being accustomed to her previous look.

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to snark or anything.  I'd like someone to explain to me why getting the "previous look" is so damned important.  It's not as if Morrigan's unrecognizable.  It's pretty clearly her in the trailer.

Link changes appearance (sometimes dramatically) with every incarnation of Zelda.  TV show and movie characters change every time they get new actors, which happens more often than you'd think.  Video game characters change appearance simply by updating the graphics.  I doubt you'd see anyone arguing we should've had 20 years of 8-bit art to stay true to the "original" look of the Mario Brothers.  Fans constantly mod character appearances in video games when they have the tools to do it.

So why, then, is it not ok in this one instance?

[AmRMa]

Love the looks on the new engine, their different but still recognizable and I can't wait to use the character creation.

[Zeldrik1389]

Ulfros wrote...

Bioware:

- Creates some of the most sexist games in the industry, always emphasising muscular, chisel-jawed men and half-naked volumptious women. Never forgets to place unessesary romance options and sex scenes in there!

- Goes on to bash its own fans for being misogynistic for criticising their poor work.

LOGIC! 

I'm sorry, but this made me laugh =))
- Have you ever played GTA? or Duke Nukem? Or Dead or Alive? Try those before comment on sexist in video game please.

- He said it was his opinion, not BioWare's opinion. And seriously, I don;t think of it as bashing. People on internet are stupidly unpleasant to deal with. Whatever the dev did, they complain. New look, complain. Old look, complain. Release early, complain. Release late, complain. So what would you feel if you were they? 

Your "logic" is laughable.

[Unknown_Warrior]

David Gaider wrote...

Unknown_Warrior wrote...
For the record, I don't really care either way (especially since I never cared much for Morrigan). But this ridiculous "It's not us, it's you! You're just being MISOGYNISTIC!" is rubbing me wrong in a million and one ways.

That's what I'm saying, is it?

Sigh.

For the record, just go back and look at the forum commentary on various characters-- female ones in particular-- from previous games. Tell me how much you think those comments still applied once the game came out, and how much of it was just knee-jerk and/or outright ridiculous. All of it? Doubtful. Much of it? If not that, then wildly subjective in a way that doesn't lend itself to being useful to us in any manner.

Is it complicated by the fact these are returning characters? Sure. Doesn't change what I said, insofar as "commentary on appearances are highly suspect" goes. Does that mean all opinions are therefore invalid, and anyone who says something negative about a female character is a raging mysoginist? Only on the internet.

Feel free to make your opinion heard, if you like. Sounds great. I'll leave you all to it.

Seems to me you're slightly embittered from remarks made by people in the past. Yet let me remind you that we're not those people so why are you treating us as if we were?
I'll admit I've not read the entirety of this thread, and mainly just read your comments, but you struck me as awfully abrasive and arrogant concerning certain posts, conjuring up anti-female motives when they weren't suggested or even implied.

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Unknown_Warrior wrote...
It's
not so much her being conventionally "ugly" (or should I say;
unattractive) as it is not being able to relate with her due to us being
accustomed to her previous look.

Just to be clear,
I'm not trying to snark or anything.  I'd like someone to explain to me
why getting the "previous look" is so damned important.  It's not as if
Morrigan's unrecognizable.  It's pretty clearly her in the trailer.

Link
changes appearance (sometimes dramatically) with every incarnation of
Zelda.  TV show and movie characters change every time they get new
actors, which happens more often than you'd think.  Video game
characters change appearance simply by updating the graphics.  I doubt
you'd see anyone arguing we should've had 20 years of 8-bit art to stay
true to the "original" look of the Mario Brothers.  Fans constantly mod
character appearances in video games when they have the tools to do it.

So why, then, is it not ok in this one instance?

Well Zelda games are a poor example since the games aren't linked (hehe) to one another. Link & Zelda and their storyline from OoT has nothing with MM's, et cetera.
But in all seriousness, I'm just playing devil's advocate and trying to speak from the complainer's POV. I don't personally hold any contempt or dislike for in-saga design change.

The only complaints I've personally harboured towards BioWare the last few years were the recycled dungeons in DA2 and the ending of ME3. Nothing else pissed me off (much).

Modifié par Unknown_Warrior, 11 juin 2013 - 09:31 .

[archangel1996]

David Gaider wrote...

Unknown_Warrior wrote...
For the record, I don't really care either way (especially since I never cared much for Morrigan). But this ridiculous "It's not us, it's you! You're just being MISOGYNISTIC!" is rubbing me wrong in a million and one ways.

That's what I'm saying, is it?

Sigh.

For the record, just go back and look at the forum commentary on various characters-- female ones in particular-- from previous games. Tell me how much you think those comments still applied once the game came out, and how much of it was just knee-jerk and/or outright ridiculous. All of it? Doubtful. Much of it? If not that, then wildly subjective in a way that doesn't lend itself to being useful to us in any manner.

Is it complicated by the fact these are returning characters? Sure. Doesn't change what I said, insofar as "commentary on appearances are highly suspect" goes. Does that mean all opinions are therefore invalid, and anyone who says something negative about a female character is a raging mysoginist? Only on the internet.

Feel free to make your opinion heard, if you like. Sounds great. I'll leave you all to it.

Are you in the marketing team? You should seriously ask to be part of it, BW would sell so much more
Seriously, the professionality in this forum is laughable, the respect factor is even worse