26 réponses à ce sujet

[MPApr2012]

Had some form of “crowd funding” been considered for reintroducing limited support for ME3MP?

A bit of rambling to explain what I actually mean follows… Leaving aside that it looks to me (have no proof, just my feeling lately) that since the cease of support things are getting quieter/messier in ME3MP. That’s something I can’t really appreciate, surely the game has more life in it to last beyond a single year. It does need bit more attention from the developer and it does look to me that community might have some interest in helping out… Let’s have a look -

Forums are never short of threads of people having to put up with various cheaters due to lack of ban waves, ongoing discussions are ever-present on balance changes which (that is my non-game-developer point of view though) don’t seem to be that major in scope, and people are generally disappointed that things like weekend challenges are no more. In my mind those sort of activities should not require much of development resource (understandable that BioWare needs to manage its creative resources) to action...

So what if BioWare would mull an idea of community-funded support events over and in a fashion similar to Kickstarter (or just using it directly) turn around and say that:

- Cost to community for execution of a single (ad-hoc) Ban Wave is $...
- Cost to community of reinstating bi-monthly Ban Waves is $...
- Cost to community of preparing and implementing Balance Change event is $...
- Cost to community to bring back Weekend Challenges is $...

Those milestones above are just an example, btw… Given community has an ability to fund chosen options and track progress that might end up as a mutually beneficial service model. We all appreciate that BioWare is business that needs to run by business rules but for many of us ME3MP is a valued hobby that we’d like to see going a bit further than its current status quo. And to be honest I, personally, would much more prefer spend money on ME3MP this way rather than at the infamous store.

What’s the worst that might come out of this – we discover that we don’t have enough interest to fund anything at this stage? That will be sad but at the very least it will become effective argument in those threads calling for changes…

So, BioWare and BSN, what do you think? Is it an option worth considering?

P.S. If it has been discussed before, I would appreciate some pointers to that discussion - interested in what the outcome was...

[Oni Dark Clown]

There are probably a few if not Multiple Reasons both Legal and Practical that may or may not prevent something like what you came up with.

Time and money are part of it, but what of other necessity's? probably would need people who would have to be pulled in to do this. do said people get pulled from other projects underway or In the works? or hired specifically for these kinds of tasks?

said person or Persons (teams work better on projects like this) would, more than likely have to be knowledgeable of the workings of ME3MP. then put to contract.... if not then time to train new persons. you know there's a lot more going on to make this happen it seems.

In a perfect world sure might be able to happen, but this world is far from perfect.
and its better that way. Perfection is a Terrible concept.

Then again....
[spam image removed]

I Wash my hands of this weirdness.

Modifié par Ninja Stan, 11 juin 2013 - 04:15 .

[CitizenThom]

I was wondering the same thing... actually I've been wondering if: I were to buy a lottery ticket --> win the lottery... how hard would it be to run ME3 multiplayer as a non-profit (while re-instituting needed patches)?

[MPApr2012]

Oni Dark Clown wrote...
There are probably a few if not Multiple Reasons both Legal and Practical that may or may not prevent something like what you came up with.

That's interesting... Out of curiosity, care to throw an example of those issues you thought of? How's that would be different from say casual Time-and-Materials arrangement? If the issue is though with actual payment model - BioWare points come to mind as a possible candidate if no desire to put real money figures/payment processing facilities out...

Oni Dark Clown wrote...
Time and money are part of it, but what of other necessity's? probably would need people who would have to be pulled in to do this. do said people get pulled from other projects underway or In the works? or hired specifically for these kinds of tasks?

said person or Persons (teams work better on projects like this) would, more than likely have to be knowledgeable of the workings of ME3MP. then put to contract.... if not then time to train new persons. you know there's a lot more going on to make this happen it seems.

Nothing insurmountable here imo, sounds like any other project/service resource management. And that's what I'd be interested to hear some figures around. It all comes down to money in the end and it would be interesting to find out what scale and order of the things are we talking about here  Those examples I used are reasonably discreet events so quantifying and managing them through should be a bit easier compared to other projects BioWare is working through.

Oni Dark Clown wrote...
In a perfect world sure might be able to happen, but this world is far from perfect.
and its better that way. Perfection is a Terrible concept.

Being philosophical, or just sarcastic here? Anyway, not seeking perfection here, in fact quite the opposite - trying to find out if there's practical way forward... Alternatives are not exactly flash.

[Alien Number Six]

Not going to happen. I would drop some money on it if it happened.

[Tokenusername]

Not gonna read this.

Suffice it to say that it has less to do with money than it has to do with man power. People have move to newer, bigger projects. When things are done, they're done, and you need to let the next step take place.

I'd rather have MP 2.0 than MP 1.3.7.4

[me0120]

MPApr2012 wrote...

Oni Dark Clown wrote...
Time and money are part of it, but what of other necessity's? probably would need people who would have to be pulled in to do this. do said people get pulled from other projects underway or In the works? or hired specifically for these kinds of tasks?

said person or Persons (teams work better on projects like this) would, more than likely have to be knowledgeable of the workings of ME3MP. then put to contract.... if not then time to train new persons. you know there's a lot more going on to make this happen it seems.

Nothing insurmountable here imo, sounds like any other project/service resource management. And that's what I'd be interested to hear some figures around. It all comes down to money in the end and it would be interesting to find out what scale and order of the things are we talking about here  Those examples I used are reasonably discreet events so quantifying and managing them through should be a bit easier compared to other projects BioWare is working through.

No, this is not just about money. This is about time, money, and manpower.

Yes, we may be able to forge enough money to consitute ME3: MP attention from the developers, but it would also mean that we are pulling attention away from the creation of the next Mass Effect in two ways. First, time spent on ME3 is time not spent on ME (whatever) and then deadlines get passed and the game is either released late or with glitches. Second, this is a team and a team relies on all its people to succeed.

A solution to this is to hire someone from the outside to help, but then that person has to undergo training which also takes time, money, and manpower.

[Oni Dark Clown]

The only practical way forward here is for you to Go to BioWare. Apply for a job, Become CEO, then transfer to EA move up the ladder, then push to implement what you want.

you can come up with as many different Ideas for something to "Work" and it can be as "Practical" as you can make it.

but in the end, it makes all the sense in the world to you, but will it to the ones that have the final say?

In the end, Contract, licensing rights, other legal gibberish, time, resources, Personnel and money play out in the end if not a few dozen other reasons. these are my guesses, seeing as I Do not work for BioWare, I do not Work in the Gaming Dev industry. the people here that do, (likely any BioWare Staff) probably can't comment on any of it due to any and all nondisclosure agreements they are under. and as far as I know, a few of the Devs that DID work on ME3MP no longer are here. or have been re-purposed to other projects DA3 for example.

I like to keep the idea, of having the idea that if they could continue constant support DLC and events the whole 9 yards for M3EMP indefinitely, they would.

[MPApr2012]

Tokenusername wrote...

Not gonna read this.

Suffice it to say that it has less to do with money than it has to do with man power. People have move to newer, bigger projects. When things are done, they're done, and you need to let the next step take place.

I'd rather have MP 2.0 than MP 1.3.7.4

Mea culpa, i forgot all about BSN's attention span.  I am trying to find out if supporting current product can continue not at the expense of the existent BioWare resource, but for instance asking community/target market to fund this ongoing support.

[Tokenusername]

MPApr2012 wrote...

Tokenusername wrote...

Not gonna read this.

Suffice it to say that it has less to do with money than it has to do with man power. People have move to newer, bigger projects. When things are done, they're done, and you need to let the next step take place.

I'd rather have MP 2.0 than MP 1.3.7.4

Mea culpa, i forgot all about BSN's attention span.  I am trying to find out if supporting current product can continue not at the expense of the existent BioWare resource, but for instance asking community/target market to fund this ongoing support.

My point is that yout point is moot. You can make as realistic or practical donation scheme as possible, this isn't an issue about funding. No amount of money will create people. The people that would be used to continue ME3 MP's support would have to be taken from other developing projects. You don't don't stifle progression for the sake of nostalgia.

[jm2207]

Balance changes: People are always going to have their pet issues they want changed, but I think BW had enough time to be satisfied with where they left things on this front. Without new gear, I don't see how continued balancing is necessary. There has to be a point where it becomes overkill. I for one am perfectly happy with no more changes, mostly out of fear there would be changes I don't like.

Weekend events: Since making the promo guns ultra rare, there doesn't seem to be as much incentive for people to participate. "Free" ultra rare pack every couple weeks? Okay. Except it wouldn't be free.

Ban waves: While it does seem kind of ridiculous for a company to say they'd be willing to police their game if the community funds it, I don't see why it couldn't work. But this is mainly a PC issue, right?

Short of new maps, I'm not interested. And that isn't going to happen.

[oO Stryfe Oo]

Yeah...After what I saw going on at E3, I think it'd be odd for them to devote some people on a project they considered done. It'd be awesome if they could allow modders to take over via Kickstarter or something, but that's about as likely as an actor dying of Old age instead of an OD.

[OniGanon]

There's something about the idea of EA using Kickstarter that rubs me the wrong way.

[Zero132132]

The biggest issue is that there's no realistic way to implement something like this without making very temporary hires (which are often undesirable for skilled labor) or pulling people off of more important projects. The temporary hire issue would still require that they pull people from other projects for training new people in the methods used to detect cheaters, so even if less time was lost, there's no way to do something like this without hindering other projects.

Not saying I don't agree with the sentiment, but they already ended support for this game. The reasons that they did so probably couldn't be ameliorated just by the presence of more money.

[Cyonan]

If EA used kickstarter for funding there wouldn't be an internet anymore.

It would have exploded from outrage.

[oO Stryfe Oo]

I seem to be one of the few who doesn't fly into a frothy-mouthed rage whenever EA is mentioned...

[Ninja Stan]

Cyonan wrote...

If EA used kickstarter for funding there wouldn't be an internet anymore.

It would have exploded from outrage.

Kickstarter is new enough that it is still seen in mostly positive terms. It is seen as a way fro those projects that wouldn't normally get funding, to get funding, usually from enthusiastic fans. Recently, there has been a little backlash against some celebrities who are trying to get smaller-budget or vanity projects funded, such as Zach Braff and his follow up to Garden State.

When you get to a certain level of company big-ness or celebrity famous-ness, it is assumed that you have the clout to get official funding for your projects from traditional corporate sources, whether it's a movie studio or game publisher. So when you're at that level and go cap-in-hand to ask fans to raise your money for you, there may be some "you're rich and successful, why do you need our money?" type resistance.

I believe that EA would encounter such resistance if it were to use a crowdfunding site like Kickstarter. It could do crowdfunding in other ways, I think, but not through sites like Kickstarter.

[MPApr2012]

Tokenusername wrote...

My point is that yout point is moot. You can make as realistic or practical donation scheme as possible, this isn't an issue about funding. No amount of money will create people. The people that would be used to continue ME3 MP's support would have to be taken from other developing projects. You don't don't stifle progression for the sake of nostalgia.

...I appreciate your point but i cannot agree with parts of it. Software (and games are just that) lifecycle has more facets to it that you describe and support of the product is usually not as straightforward as drop everything the moment you start with something new. And, to be honest, this is the part i'd want to hear BioWare's take on things because until we do hear that all our speculations on how they manage their resource remain exactly that, speculations.

That's unless you have an inside view into Bioware and speak on their behalf

[Oni Dark Clown]

Good luck, Maybe try to PM them as they work on DA3... Oh wait.

[MPApr2012]

Ninja Stan wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

If EA used kickstarter for funding there wouldn't be an internet anymore.

It would have exploded from outrage.

Kickstarter is new enough that it is still seen in mostly positive terms. It is seen as a way fro those projects that wouldn't normally get funding, to get funding, usually from enthusiastic fans. Recently, there has been a little backlash against some celebrities who are trying to get smaller-budget or vanity projects funded, such as Zach Braff and his follow up to Garden State.

When you get to a certain level of company big-ness or celebrity famous-ness, it is assumed that you have the clout to get official funding for your projects from traditional corporate sources, whether it's a movie studio or game publisher. So when you're at that level and go cap-in-hand to ask fans to raise your money for you, there may be some "you're rich and successful, why do you need our money?" type resistance.

I believe that EA would encounter such resistance if it were to use a crowdfunding site like Kickstarter. It could do crowdfunding in other ways, I think, but not through sites like Kickstarter.

Only mentioned Kickstarter as an example for people to relate to, and I agree that making bigger companies to use that avenue might just not happen. It was used to simplify a question if BioWare would consider making certain parts of its support transparent enough for consumers and if consumers are prepared to consciously fund it. Another analogy would be establishing an SLA with community.

[MPApr2012]

jm2207 wrote...

Balance changes: People are always going to have their pet issues they want changed, but I think BW had enough time to be satisfied with where they left things on this front. Without new gear, I don't see how continued balancing is necessary. There has to be a point where it becomes overkill. I for one am perfectly happy with no more changes, mostly out of fear there would be changes I don't like.

Weekend events: Since making the promo guns ultra rare, there doesn't seem to be as much incentive for people to participate. "Free" ultra rare pack every couple weeks? Okay. Except it wouldn't be free.

Ban waves: While it does seem kind of ridiculous for a company to say they'd be willing to police their game if the community funds it, I don't see why it couldn't work. But this is mainly a PC issue, right?

Short of new maps, I'm not interested. And that isn't going to happen.

Aren't the consoles riling from the missile glitching?

[MPApr2012]

oO Stryfe Oo wrote...

Yeah...After what I saw going on at E3, I think it'd be odd for them to devote some people on a project they considered done. It'd be awesome if they could allow modders to take over via Kickstarter or something, but that's about as likely as an actor dying of Old age instead of an OD.

That's interesting to hear pretty much everyone mentioning game development as a process that ends on the project delivery stage. It sounds to me that game development industry has a lot catch-up to do with the rest of ICT...

And that scenario, of modders allowed to take over, is even less likely in my view. Nigh impossible because that's where legal and business issues quoted already will raise their multiple heads... 

 

[me0120]

MPApr2012 wrote...

jm2207 wrote...

Balance changes: People are always going to have their pet issues they want changed, but I think BW had enough time to be satisfied with where they left things on this front. Without new gear, I don't see how continued balancing is necessary. There has to be a point where it becomes overkill. I for one am perfectly happy with no more changes, mostly out of fear there would be changes I don't like.

Weekend events: Since making the promo guns ultra rare, there doesn't seem to be as much incentive for people to participate. "Free" ultra rare pack every couple weeks? Okay. Except it wouldn't be free.

Ban waves: While it does seem kind of ridiculous for a company to say they'd be willing to police their game if the community funds it, I don't see why it couldn't work. But this is mainly a PC issue, right?

Short of new maps, I'm not interested. And that isn't going to happen.

Aren't the consoles riling from the missile glitching?

It's exaggerated on the forum.

[Creator Limbs]

I'm actually glad there are no more balance changes.

[The-Fantasm]

prostheticlimbs wrote...

I'm actually glad there are no more balance changes.

I was thinking about typing something up for this thread, but this actually sums it up pretty well.