Guest_Cthulhu42_*
Also - being a community with out children or the sick/vulnerable didn't work out so well for Crawford. To me, Woodbury seemed reasonably okay, egalitarian on first acquaintance - if it weren't for the Governor being a complete psycho. Surely there has to be at least one non-dysfunctional group in this universe!
Ah yes, well didn't start out quite that way. But yeah granted they're relatively functional!
Really, I think it's just a matter of deposing your leader as soon as it becomes readily obvious he's a sociopath.
Yeah I think in this sort of environment its difficult to back who's trustworthy and who isn't. Who's flaky and who isn't. I think there needs to be a balance of selfishness and selfless acts to survive. Definitely a level of pragmatism is needed to not only survive but to lead a group. And who knows when you might need that selfless act from a stranger later on. As far as the kids thing, that was dumb of me to phrase it like that (because I know when I didn't have kids that bugged the hell out of me when people said that). However I don't think we can back away from them being around and provide a measure of support for them, even the annoying ones
. I think it was the assumption that you need to just dump the ones who aren't currently or never will be resilient is what bugged me about it, because who's to say they wont become reliable or play a part of something bigger. Sarah or someone else considered equally useless may save Clem or a group member at the last minute. Or she could remain flaky and weak and be an even bigger burden. Who knows?
I still maintain the primary dislike of her is because she's weak, (the toughen up/grow up princess/you should know better thing always irks me. When attributed to children and teens even more so) and Clem being the more mature of them really isn't unusual considering the relative experiences of both the characters. Also I would say Clem being wise beyond her years is an exception, not a rule and I hope that the cognitive dissonance I might feel, about being an adult playing as a child, can be kept at bay (I've certainly heard some reviewers say it's a little unsettling and unrealistic for them).
Also - being a community with out children or the sick/vulnerable didn't work out so well for Crawford. To me, Woodbury seemed reasonably okay, egalitarian on first acquaintance - if it weren't for the Governor being a complete psycho. Surely there has to be at least one non-dysfunctional group in this universe!
Thus my modifier I'd take care of my kids but not someone else's. Oh she might become a badass but at the moment she's just the load and I rather not risk Clem's life on the off chance Sarah might eventually be useful. Also relying on strangers to be selfless is...welp I wouldn't do it not in TWD realm. I never said she wouldn't ever be resilient but in the meantime she's a danger to Clem and that for me isn't gonna fly.
Honestly though yes I'd take care of a kid like Clem. She's sharp enough to lie when needed (about Lee being her baby sitter), she saved Lee's life by warning him, she tries to cheer people up when she can and she knows when to be quiet and just observe. She's a load but she brings benefits to outweigh them.
That said yes Clem is an exception (thankfully) I doubt I'd made it through season 1 if she was more like Sarah.
Didn't that happen because the girl was selling herself for the guy's medicine he cut her off and she got pissed off and killed him without destroying the brain? I don't recall it that well. If they had kicked her and her sister out immediately that issue probably wouldn't have gotten so bad. (Also now that I'm thinking about it didn't they start trying to protect everyone and eventually realized that was infeasible then started kicking people out?)
Really, I think it's just a matter of deposing your leader as soon as it becomes readily obvious he's a sociopath.
Yeah this. Or at least a sociopath who clearly doesn't take the mental state of those underneath him in account.
There are only two decent people in the group, Becca and Alvin. Luke is too shady, Carlos was a idiot, Nick and Serah are close to Ben tier and Pete was a wannabe Lee. I miss the old group. Sure Larry was an ass and Lily was a ****** but at least their reasoning where solid and they where competent along with Carley.
What bugs met he most is TellTale keeps giving us dialog for Clem to outright say she wants to leave with Kenny but nooooooooooooooooo, her and Ken just keep getting dragged into this groups own **** and I'm tired of it. I don't like the group TellTale, plz let us leave with Kenny?
Ew no.
Becca is god awful.
Literally anything she says makes flowers die instantly.
Ew no.
Liked not for the Kenny hate, liked because I actually like the Cabin Group despite their flaws.
Becca is god awful.
Literally anything she says makes flowers die instantly.
Are we talking about that annoying tough shit kid Becca or Rebecca?
Because I agree if we're talking about the former. I actually quite like the latter. :S
@Ryz, fair enough. I just feel Sarah's getting a bum rap for being different to Clem. In regard to relying on strangers, Clem had to do that otherwise she'd be walker food. You say you wouldn't do it, but sometimes it happens and you don't get a choice! The damn kindness of strangers! LOL.
I'm not sure what story your referring too there, Molly's? In regard to Crawfords downfall, from my memory of the tapes in the infirmary, a woman was pregnant and refused to have an abortion as mandated and in order to escape shot the guy. It took one dissenter and a single walker to bring about the downfall of Crawford. Vernon's group though fared much better, although as to their fate, we don't know.
Yes I know Clem was reliant on Lee but she helped Lee as well. One of the first things she does is save him from her walker babysitter. She cheered him up, she saved his life. Now she was more reliant on him than he was her yes but she wasn't endangering Lee's life without giving anything in exchange. (And of course the difference in ages for me makes it much more understandable). Sarah on the other hand...has she done anything for Clem other than endanger her?
Ah there we go. See that was unnecessary force. He should've given her the option or kicked her out. Forcing her to get it was needless aggravation. (Also they really should've had more than one person watching this scenario. This is where the need for knowing your people's mental state comes into play.).
Also Vernon's group threw Clem's group under the bus so they could get away. They aren't exactly an example of showing how you can be kind and get ahead.
Not so far, no. Do you have an option for Clem not to help Sarah? (haven't replayed it to know that myself just memory of the dialogue choices ie help Sarah or not)
I can't recall the actual threat - whether he did give her that ultimatum or not. I can imagine this scenario would happen regularly (women getting pregnant that is) as contraception would likely be hard to come by.
Yes they did, hence why I think survival is still dependent on a combination of selfishness as well as some selfless acts. As soon as you throw in different personalities, priorities and motivations the decisions made become much more complicated. Story wise it also makes for interesting dynamics.
Yeah I believe you can ignore her and do your own work and tell her you only went with her cause you were forced. XD I love jerk Clem. Jerk Lee was hilarity.
True but they managed to convince the rest of them to get abortions (though you'd think they'd at least have allotted amount of kids born in a certain period of time. a few kids every so often weren't going to cause disaster. Then again it hadn't been that long in the infection at that time so maybe that'd come later.)
We agree on that. Being completely selfish is a good way to end up alone. (and probably dead as well. Humans are social creatures at heart). I'm just pointing out that no one gets far in TWD being selfless. Carver was way too far on the selfish scale (and the stupid scale). Being completely selfless will end up dead because a jerkwad will use you and throw you away or you'll try to save the wrong person and they'll drag you down with them.
As for Clem. She's made up any debt owed to Luke's group several times over (seeing as they tend to look at her like morons whenever they have a problem that needs solving.) Relying on others isn't the issue. It's the relying on others and offering little in exchange that's my issue. [Still not Bitten still best quote in the season :3]
Modifié par Ryzaki, 17 mai 2014 - 06:48 .
The only thing was they weren't to know that she had something to offer (given the story though it's a given she would.) with a non player character we can't be sure hence the suspense and shock when people do jerkass things or selfless things (ie Kenny going down to help Ben, I was surprised he did that) I would also say part of the story going forward expects you to do both selfish and selfless things, both would likely bring advantages and disadvantages depending on the direction you want to go, some are meaningful with consequences, some are mere devices to wrench your emotions. (I would say for example whether Lee has his hand or not is irrelevant to how the story plays out, but what it does is wrench a decision from you and makes you think - will he survive if I cut it off? Oh how I agonised over that!). And agreed, best line so far.As for Clem. She's made up any debt owed to Luke's group several times over (seeing as they tend to look at her like morons whenever they have a problem that needs solving.) Relying on others isn't the issue. It's the relying on others and offering little in exchange that's my issue. [Still not Bitten still best quote in the season :3]
The only thing was they weren't to know that she had something to offer (given the story though it's a given she would.) with a non player character we can't be sure hence the suspense and shock when people do jerkass things or selfless things (ie Kenny going down to help Ben, I was surprised he did that) I would also say part of the story going forward expects you to do both selfish and selfless things, both would likely bring advantages and disadvantages depending on the direction you want to go, some are meaningful with consequences, some are mere devices to wrench your emotions. (I would say for example whether Lee has his hand or not is irrelevant to how the story plays out, but what it does is wrench a decision from you and makes you think - will he survive if I cut it off? Oh how I agonised over that!). And agreed, best line so far.
Which is why they just dumped her in the barn once they felt the threat she provided outweighed the goodness of saving her. Alvin and Luke wanted to help her regardless but they're pretty much the epitome of people who are nice and trusting. (Oh and Pete. But well we all know what happened to Pete 
) But yeah I loved when Kenny goes to help Ben. Ben for all his stupidity and assholeness still got a mercy kill
Though I need to replay episode 1...or watch on youtube if I'm lazy. My memories fuzzy.
Spoiler
i actually like Nate way more than Carver so i would be good with this.
I keep wonder whether the 400 days characters other than Bonnie will play a bigger role. @snook so maybe?
Well, judging by the episode 4 slide, Eddie is slated for a return, so it seems so.
He was my favourite character in 400 Days, so I'm really hoping he has a Bonnie-level presence next episode.
Regarding Troy, definitely! I have a couple of vids on my you tube fave list. My all time fave though is Lee slashing his way through walkers to the Marsh house. Definitely a bad ass scene if ever there was one.
I keep wonder whether the 400 days characters other than Bonnie will play a bigger role. @snook so maybe?
Oh and Season 3, you play as Kenny's beard. That thing is a character in its own right.
Yes Lee's badass march to save Clem brings a tear to my eye. Also screw the stranger.
I hope so.
LOL But...imagine the death scenes. The beard being killed by a walker D:
I hope so.
LOL But...imagine the death scenes. The beard being killed by a walker D:
The beard is to awesome to be killed, it's just a temporary setback and it return to full strength in an instant!
Just imagine the beard going at the walkers in full fury, those scenes they will just be too glorious to fathom! The beard shall have its vengeance on all the walkers who oppose it!
And yes "Still. Not. Bitten" is easily my favorite quote so far through both seasons. It's just that good!
LOL But...imagine the death scenes. The beard being killed by a walker D:
Oh no no no! Nothing kills this beard!
Scenario: The beard has lost Kenny, it spends the next 5 episodes looking for him. In the process he comes across not only walkers but murderous moustaches, socio-path shavers, treacherous toupees and seductive scissors. All try to stop him in his endless searching, at the end of the journey he finds Kenny has moved on to another beard *cue sad depressing folk music*
You're right, but I could equally say that Kenny contributed to the death of Shawn Greene (if you help Shawn you get a chance to then help Kenny with Duck - Duck always survives no matter the choice) if however you help Kenny save Duck, Kenny then runs off and doesn't help you save Shawn. They get kicked off the farm in any case and that I blamed partly on Kenny. Hershel recognised that having such people around would not be to his benefit.
Did Shawn die because Kenny was incompetent? No, he died because Kenny was being a selfish bastard, and to say he needed to punch down on Ben because Ben did the same doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Also, if they had stayed on the farm who's to say it would have been any better or any worse? It is of course, more complex than that. Also - if Kenny and Lee aren't on good terms Kenny flat out refuses to go help Lee rescue Clem. And that is after his family are gone. Also Kenny is not the only one to have lost family, Ben says as much about his circumstances.
Maybe the brand of selfishness is okay as long as you have epic beardiness
Seeing as Shawn had to die no matter what because him surviving would **** up canon big time....
It be like having Glenn stay with us after ep1. It would have been nice but somethings that where already canon have to remain so ala Shawn had to die and Glenn had to leave. Also I can sympathies more with a man saving his son over one person(my Lee was no different with Clem) unlike a man protecting himself and damming a whole group.
So i'm curious. Where would season 2 be chronologically with the comics?
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