1113 réponses à ce sujet

[TheKomandorShepard]

eluvianix wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Icy Magebane wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

And pray tell, what is so naive about supporting a minority that I can sympathize with rather than simply following the majority?

It is naive like free tiger in cage saying "ooo poor little kitten i will free him im sure tiger will be grateful" *5 second later* "oh please don't eat me arrrhhh":lol:

You don't have to follow majority but if majority eats that means you will stop that would be stupid and same is supporting mages.

What I think is naive is believing oneself capable of absolutely predicting human behavior.  Naive is ignoring all of the genetic and environmental factors that make up one's personality simply because the individual in question happens to be born with magic.  This idea that all mages are killers is just plain unfair.  Demonic possession, sure, I admit that's a problem.  Assuming all mages will try to harm others even without being possessed, however, is unreasonable.

Im just saying how it will end and how it always ends but pretty much humans are monsters and will sacrifice another human for own benefit only thing that stop them from doing that are consequences and still often even despite them humans hurt other and you can read pretty much human history to see that. And now we have mages who can avoide consequences by rule might makes right pretty much like in tevinter even if some mages don't want hurt others they still are indifferent or can do nothing about that pretty much like humans act toward elves.Now demonic possesion what mages are fond and makes them even more unpredictable and capable destroying city.      
So we have unpredictable bastards who are very fond creating disasters whether they are abomnations ,
with good intentions or not and most peoples hate them by nature.Just see main quest in entire da most are caused by mage even if isn't abomination and practically zero good things done by mage.Choosing them is naive and even if you want them simple as army it is completly not worthy giving that magic isn't very useful , mages are fond becoming abomnation and even if not they can betray me they are small in number adding that i will have 3/4 thedas after me if i will help them. 
   

1. That is a very sad look on life, to see only the bad in te human existence when there is also SO much GOOD. I am honestly sad to hear you say that.

2. I guarantee you that the majority of mages are not FOND of becoming an abomination.

3. You are the naive one to think that all mages can just be generalized like you are trying to do.

4. Zero good things done by mages? Try Healers and Grey Wardens.

1.Thats reality you can deny that and live in illusion but you aren't safe from criminal side or law enforcements.Just read news or history humans did , do and will do horrible things that human nature.

2.Do i even have to comment that after what we seen?

3.Mages are humans and as i said that already that makes them dangerous and having magic will praise them above others and allow avoid consequences and then we have abomnations what even make situation worse.

4.Grey wardens don't have to be mages healres sure but it is heavily restricted by rules of magic and when somehow useful still humans can replace that by technology which is much more safe and useful. 

Plaintiff wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Oh yes because mages are good hearted pure and loveable creatures oh wait
Connor , zathrian ,circle of mages , blood mages in denerim ,baroness ,velanna, tevinter , most mages in da 2 .[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/whistling.png[/smilie]

They're not instinct-driven beasts, they have all of the same emotional and cognitive faculties as any human.

Well, most humans. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/angry.png[/smilie]

And that what makes them dangerous give bob super man powers he won't be superhero he will take control and try force others to live a way that bob wants and improve his life. 

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 10 novembre 2013 - 01:14 .

[Heimdall]

eluvianix wrote...

All I can say is: to each their own. Just because you might find it too strained does not mean that I cannot find that connection.

I suppose so.  Such a connection just strikes me as requiring too many simplifications.

[Icy Magebane]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Im just saying how it will end and how it always ends but pretty much humans are monsters and will sacrifice another human for own benefit only thing that stop them from doing that are consequences and still often even despite them humans hurt other and you can read pretty much human history to see that. And now we have mages who can avoide consequences by rule might makes right pretty much like in tevinter even if some mages don't want hurt others they still are indifferent or can do nothing about that pretty much like humans act toward elves.Now demonic possesion what mages are fond and makes them even more unpredictable and capable destroying city.      
So we have unpredictable bastards who are very fond creating disasters whether they are abomnations ,
with good intentions or not and most peoples hate them by nature.Just see main quest in entire da most are caused by mage even if isn't abomination and practically zero good things done by mage.Choosing them is naive and even if you want them simple as army it is completly not worthy giving that magic isn't very useful , mages are fond becoming abomnation and even if not they can betray me they are small in number adding that i will have 3/4 thedas after me if i will help them. 
   

While I understand your point, I do not feel that it's right to treat mages, or anyone else, like criminals before they've committed a crime.  The thing I will agree on is that mages have the potential to become more threatening/destructive to society than any normal person.  This does not, however, give normal people the right to imprison them or take away their freedom to choose whether to be good or evil.  Furthermore, regardless of what supernatural powers they may have, people are not resources to be utilized by anyone other than themselves.  Saying it's okay if you want to keep them around as soldiers is just ignoring the most basic rights every human being has, by the very nature of sentience.  Then again, "human rights," as obvious as it may sound, isn't a universally accepted concept...   If you don't believe that all humans should be the authors of their own destiny, then I guess that would explain a lot of what I've read from you.  As far as that point goes, I don't think people should be treated as tools to be used or discarded according to the whims of a third party.

Also, might wins conflicts.  Beating someone into submission doesn't make your viewpoint right or justify your actions in any way.

Edit:  Let me just address one more point:  The reason mages are rarely, if ever, seen doing anything productive is because they are locked insided towers their whole lives and not allowed to interact with the outside world unless the Chantry tells them to.  I assumed that was self-evident.

Modifié par Icy Magebane, 10 novembre 2013 - 01:19 .

[SgtSteel91]

@ Kommnder

Not all humans are monsters. There's just as many stories of people doing charitable work and making the world a better place as there are stories of people being bastards.

It's pessimists like you who are slowing down progress.

Modifié par SgtSteel91, 10 novembre 2013 - 01:19 .

[Hellion Rex]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

1.Thats reality you can deny that and live in illusion but you aren't safe from criminal side or law enforcements.Just read news or history humans did , do and will do horrible things that human nature.

2.Do i even have to comment that after what we seen?

3.Mages are humans and as i said that already that makes them dangerous and having magic will praise them above others and allow avoid consequences and then we have abomnations what even make situation worse.

4.Grey wardens don't have to be mages healres sure but it is heavily restricted by rules of magic and when somehow useful still humans can replace that by technology which is much more safe and useful. 

1. Yes, and despite all the terrible, you seem to be missing all the GOOD in life.

2. Yes you do have to comment. I want specifics of people who were fond of becoming abominations.

3. Your third point is still wrong.

4. Without mages however you would have no Grey Wardens. And healers have saved probably many lives that otherwise might not have lived.

[Hellion Rex]

SgtSteel91 wrote...

@ Kommnder

Not all humans are monsters. There's just as many stories of people doing charitable work and making the world a better place as there are stories of people being bastards.

It's pessimists like you who are slowing down progress.

Amen to that.

[Hellion Rex]

Lord Aesir wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

All I can say is: to each their own. Just because you might find it too strained does not mean that I cannot find that connection.

I suppose so.  Such a connection just strikes me as requiring too many simplifications.

Meh, when you overthink about it perhaps. I just go with what my heart feels.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Icy Magebane wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Im just saying how it will end and how it always ends but pretty much humans are monsters and will sacrifice another human for own benefit only thing that stop them from doing that are consequences and still often even despite them humans hurt other and you can read pretty much human history to see that. And now we have mages who can avoide consequences by rule might makes right pretty much like in tevinter even if some mages don't want hurt others they still are indifferent or can do nothing about that pretty much like humans act toward elves.Now demonic possesion what mages are fond and makes them even more unpredictable and capable destroying city.      
So we have unpredictable bastards who are very fond creating disasters whether they are abomnations ,
with good intentions or not and most peoples hate them by nature.Just see main quest in entire da most are caused by mage even if isn't abomination and practically zero good things done by mage.Choosing them is naive and even if you want them simple as army it is completly not worthy giving that magic isn't very useful , mages are fond becoming abomnation and even if not they can betray me they are small in number adding that i will have 3/4 thedas after me if i will help them. 
   

While I understand your point, I do not feel that it's right to treat mages, or anyone else, like criminals before they've committed a crime.  The thing I will agree on is that mages have the potential to become more threatening/destructive to society than any normal person.  This does not, however, give normal people the right to imprison them or take away their freedom to choose whether to be good or evil.  Furthermore, regardless of what supernatural powers they may have, people are not resources to be utilized by anyone other than themselves.  Saying it's okay if you want to keep them around as soldiers is just ignoring the most basic rights every human being has, by the very nature of sentience.  Then again, "human rights," as obvious as it may sound, isn't a universally accepted concept...   If you don't believe that all humans should be the authors of their own destiny, then I guess that would explain a lot of what I've read from you.  As far as that point goes, I don't think people should be treated as tools to be used or discarded according to the whims of a third party.

Also, might wins conflicts.  Beating someone into submission doesn't make your viewpoint right or justify your actions in any way.

But that how world works peoples aren't equal and what is "right" lies in your morals but still you have to force someone to follow your morals so we go into might makes right and every society is bulid on that.I can ensure you if mage shown in our society you would never see him again thanks to goverment and all his human rights would go to hell.  
And as i said im not sadist just end their suffering which is also best solution that allow save money and resolve problem of abomnations and danger of mages. 

[Heimdall]

eluvianix wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

All I can say is: to each their own. Just because you might find it too strained does not mean that I cannot find that connection.

I suppose so.  Such a connection just strikes me as requiring too many simplifications.

Meh, when you overthink about it perhaps. I just go with what my heart feels.

Fair enough

[Hellion Rex]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Icy Magebane wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Im just saying how it will end and how it always ends but pretty much humans are monsters and will sacrifice another human for own benefit only thing that stop them from doing that are consequences and still often even despite them humans hurt other and you can read pretty much human history to see that. And now we have mages who can avoide consequences by rule might makes right pretty much like in tevinter even if some mages don't want hurt others they still are indifferent or can do nothing about that pretty much like humans act toward elves.Now demonic possesion what mages are fond and makes them even more unpredictable and capable destroying city.      
So we have unpredictable bastards who are very fond creating disasters whether they are abomnations ,
with good intentions or not and most peoples hate them by nature.Just see main quest in entire da most are caused by mage even if isn't abomination and practically zero good things done by mage.Choosing them is naive and even if you want them simple as army it is completly not worthy giving that magic isn't very useful , mages are fond becoming abomnation and even if not they can betray me they are small in number adding that i will have 3/4 thedas after me if i will help them. 
   

While I understand your point, I do not feel that it's right to treat mages, or anyone else, like criminals before they've committed a crime.  The thing I will agree on is that mages have the potential to become more threatening/destructive to society than any normal person.  This does not, however, give normal people the right to imprison them or take away their freedom to choose whether to be good or evil.  Furthermore, regardless of what supernatural powers they may have, people are not resources to be utilized by anyone other than themselves.  Saying it's okay if you want to keep them around as soldiers is just ignoring the most basic rights every human being has, by the very nature of sentience.  Then again, "human rights," as obvious as it may sound, isn't a universally accepted concept...   If you don't believe that all humans should be the authors of their own destiny, then I guess that would explain a lot of what I've read from you.  As far as that point goes, I don't think people should be treated as tools to be used or discarded according to the whims of a third party.

Also, might wins conflicts.  Beating someone into submission doesn't make your viewpoint right or justify your actions in any way.

But that how world works peoples aren't equal and what is "right" lies in your morals but still you have to force someone to follow your morals so we go into might makes right and every society is bulid on that.I can ensure you if mage shown in our society you would never see him again thanks to goverment and all his human rights would go to hell.  
And as i said im not sadist just end their suffering which is also best solution that allow save money and resolve problem of abomnations and danger of mages. 

And again, Thedas would be run over by the Blight or Qunari. And if you even tried to kill all the mages, you would probably end up with even more bloodshed on your hands as well, not to mention the Veil tears you are going to probably cause due to the conflict.

[TheKomandorShepard]

eluvianix wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

1.Thats reality you can deny that and live in illusion but you aren't safe from criminal side or law enforcements.Just read news or history humans did , do and will do horrible things that human nature.

2.Do i even have to comment that after what we seen?

3.Mages are humans and as i said that already that makes them dangerous and having magic will praise them above others and allow avoid consequences and then we have abomnations what even make situation worse.

4.Grey wardens don't have to be mages healres sure but it is heavily restricted by rules of magic and when somehow useful still humans can replace that by technology which is much more safe and useful. 

1. Yes, and despite all the terrible, you seem to be missing all the GOOD in life.

2. Yes you do have to comment. I want specifics of people who were fond of becoming abominations.

3. Your third point is still wrong.

4. Without mages however you would have no Grey Wardens. And healers have saved probably many lives that otherwise might not have lived.

1.Good things are bulit on suffering of others even if you don't know that life.
2.Oh crap it is so much names and unamed mages that im even tired thinking about them but most da 2 mages , connor , meredith sister and more but it would be take too much time
3.If you say so.
4. All we need is few mages in warden case and case with healers is arguable.

SgtSteel91 wrote...

@ Kommnder

Not all humans are
monsters. There's just as many stories of people doing charitable work
and making the world a better place as there are stories of people being
bastards.

It's pessimists like you who are slowing down progress.

Pfff naive some of them maybe some of them were doing that to feel better others because they were naive and thought they will change world but charity is perfect way to gain money or popularity making you look better like politics promises.

[Hellion Rex]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

1.Thats reality you can deny that and live in illusion but you aren't safe from criminal side or law enforcements.Just read news or history humans did , do and will do horrible things that human nature.

2.Do i even have to comment that after what we seen?

3.Mages are humans and as i said that already that makes them dangerous and having magic will praise them above others and allow avoid consequences and then we have abomnations what even make situation worse.

4.Grey wardens don't have to be mages healres sure but it is heavily restricted by rules of magic and when somehow useful still humans can replace that by technology which is much more safe and useful. 

1. Yes, and despite all the terrible, you seem to be missing all the GOOD in life.

2. Yes you do have to comment. I want specifics of people who were fond of becoming abominations.

3. Your third point is still wrong.

4. Without mages however you would have no Grey Wardens. And healers have saved probably many lives that otherwise might not have lived.

1.Good things are bulit on suffering of others even if you don't know that life.
2.Oh crap it is so much names and unamed mages that im even tired thinking about them but most da 2 mages , connor , meredith sister and more but it would be take too much time
3.If you say so.
4. All we need is few mages in warden case and case with healers is arguable.

1. While that may be somewhat, it is sad that you cannot see another way of viewing life.

2. Again, none of those prove that mages ARE FOND of becoming abominations. Connor was possessed because he tried to save his dad and we do not even know Meredith's sister's reason for being possessed, only that she killed a lot of people.

[TheKomandorShepard]

eluvianix wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

1.Thats reality you can deny that and live in illusion but you aren't safe from criminal side or law enforcements.Just read news or history humans did , do and will do horrible things that human nature.

2.Do i even have to comment that after what we seen?

3.Mages are humans and as i said that already that makes them dangerous and having magic will praise them above others and allow avoid consequences and then we have abomnations what even make situation worse.

4.Grey wardens don't have to be mages healres sure but it is heavily restricted by rules of magic and when somehow useful still humans can replace that by technology which is much more safe and useful. 

1. Yes, and despite all the terrible, you seem to be missing all the GOOD in life.

2. Yes you do have to comment. I want specifics of people who were fond of becoming abominations.

3. Your third point is still wrong.

4. Without mages however you would have no Grey Wardens. And healers have saved probably many lives that otherwise might not have lived.

1.Good things are bulit on suffering of others even if you don't know that life.
2.Oh crap it is so much names and unamed mages that im even tired thinking about them but most da 2 mages , connor , meredith sister and more but it would be take too much time
3.If you say so.
4. All we need is few mages in warden case and case with healers is arguable.

1. While that may be somewhat, it is sad that you cannot see another way of viewing life.

2. Again, none of those prove that mages ARE FOND of becoming abominations. Connor was possessed because he tried to save his dad and we do not even know Meredith's sister's reason for being possessed, only that she killed a lot of people.

1.I can see life can be good for you but as i said to be happy someone have to suffer i know it.
2.If legion mages turning into abomnations don't convinces you probably even if all mages become abomnations won't do that , and you are giving me excuses why they did that but it is hardly important why they did what is important they did and life is bulit on excuses so it always be many to become abomnation.

[Hellion Rex]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

1.Thats reality you can deny that and live in illusion but you aren't safe from criminal side or law enforcements.Just read news or history humans did , do and will do horrible things that human nature.

2.Do i even have to comment that after what we seen?

3.Mages are humans and as i said that already that makes them dangerous and having magic will praise them above others and allow avoid consequences and then we have abomnations what even make situation worse.

4.Grey wardens don't have to be mages healres sure but it is heavily restricted by rules of magic and when somehow useful still humans can replace that by technology which is much more safe and useful. 

1. Yes, and despite all the terrible, you seem to be missing all the GOOD in life.

2. Yes you do have to comment. I want specifics of people who were fond of becoming abominations.

3. Your third point is still wrong.

4. Without mages however you would have no Grey Wardens. And healers have saved probably many lives that otherwise might not have lived.

1.Good things are bulit on suffering of others even if you don't know that life.
2.Oh crap it is so much names and unamed mages that im even tired thinking about them but most da 2 mages , connor , meredith sister and more but it would be take too much time
3.If you say so.
4. All we need is few mages in warden case and case with healers is arguable.

1. While that may be somewhat, it is sad that you cannot see another way of viewing life.

2. Again, none of those prove that mages ARE FOND of becoming abominations. Connor was possessed because he tried to save his dad and we do not even know Meredith's sister's reason for being possessed, only that she killed a lot of people.

1.I can see life can be good for you but as i said to be happy someone have to suffer i know it.
2.If legion mages turning into abomnations don't convinces you probably even if all mages become abomnations won't do that , and you are giving me excuses why they did that but it is hardly important why they did what is important they did and life is bulit on excuses so it always be many to become abomnation.

You have not provided me with a single piece of evidence to back up any of your claims, and continue to use generalities.

[TheKomandorShepard]

eluvianix wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

1.Thats reality you can deny that and live in illusion but you aren't safe from criminal side or law enforcements.Just read news or history humans did , do and will do horrible things that human nature.

2.Do i even have to comment that after what we seen?

3.Mages are humans and as i said that already that makes them dangerous and having magic will praise them above others and allow avoid consequences and then we have abomnations what even make situation worse.

4.Grey wardens don't have to be mages healres sure but it is heavily restricted by rules of magic and when somehow useful still humans can replace that by technology which is much more safe and useful. 

1. Yes, and despite all the terrible, you seem to be missing all the GOOD in life.

2. Yes you do have to comment. I want specifics of people who were fond of becoming abominations.

3. Your third point is still wrong.

4. Without mages however you would have no Grey Wardens. And healers have saved probably many lives that otherwise might not have lived.

1.Good things are bulit on suffering of others even if you don't know that life.
2.Oh crap it is so much names and unamed mages that im even tired thinking about them but most da 2 mages , connor , meredith sister and more but it would be take too much time
3.If you say so.
4. All we need is few mages in warden case and case with healers is arguable.

1. While that may be somewhat, it is sad that you cannot see another way of viewing life.

2. Again, none of those prove that mages ARE FOND of becoming abominations. Connor was possessed because he tried to save his dad and we do not even know Meredith's sister's reason for being possessed, only that she killed a lot of people.

1.I can see life can be good for you but as i said to be happy someone have to suffer i know it.
2.If legion mages turning into abomnations don't convinces you probably even if all mages become abomnations won't do that , and you are giving me excuses why they did that but it is hardly important why they did what is important they did and life is bulit on excuses so it always be many to become abomnation.

You have not provided me with a single piece of evidence to back up any of your claims, and continue to use generalities.

What saying that is hardly fiar i provided you examples (and i could provide much much more but i asumed that you played in games to notice that) but you refused to take them providing them excuses when in life there will be always excuses.

[Hellion Rex]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...



What saying that is hardly fiar i provided you examples (and i could provide much much more but i asumed that you played in games to notice that) but you refused to take them providing them excuses when in life there will be always excuses.

And the examples you used did nothing to back up your point, which was that mages are FOND of becoming abominations.

[TheKomandorShepard]

eluvianix wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...



What saying that is hardly fiar i provided you examples (and i could provide much much more but i asumed that you played in games to notice that) but you refused to take them providing them excuses when in life there will be always excuses.

And the examples you used did nothing to back up your point, which was that mages are FOND of becoming abominations.

Perhaps word fond isn't good i should use more that they end that way often and that was my point so i joked they are fond of that.

[Lord Raijin]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...
Whatever you misgivings are lotion you cannot deny that the mages of the tevinter imperium has ruled succesfully to this point . and has advanced humanity on the cultrural social magical and even technological level that has not been since. this cannot happen if your most important leaders turn into  abominations. The tevinter imperium only socially collapsed because of the 2 hammer blows of the darkspawn and the barbarian invasion. Yet the chantry nations have collapsed on its own weight.

I can't?
Just watch me.

Why do you deny it though? The Tevinters have held out against pretty much everything but the Darkspawn and the Qunari. Regardless of what you think about their magocracy, they still remain pretty much the strongest nation in Thedas, except for the Qunari because they have withstood so much. And yes, Orlais is collapsing at the moment due to Celene and Gaspard, plus all of the corruption in the Orlesian nobility. Not to say that it cannot be fixed, but it is hardly doing well these days.

Because he is like xil just pro-templar he will denay everything that support pro-mage point i told him once that mages are capable creating society he responded "AHAHAHAHA" then i pointed him tevinter.

And the Pro-templars like Lotion calls me unreasonable and bias on their pro-templar thread when they're just as guilty. Oh how I wish they can just look at themselves in the mirrior and realize that everything that they accuse others of doing is exactly what they're doing.

Dabrikishaw wrote...

I'm shocked at how little pages there are in this thread compared to the "I support Templars" thread.

Why are you surprised?  I've been rather busy giving my full attention to the pro-templars on their thread that I haven't had the time to focus on this thread.

Just a head of warning.. Pro-templars get rather butthurt when things don't go their way, and will throw a temper tantraum by saying that they've reported you when in fact they don't. It's all talk the talk but not walk the walk type of situation.

[Heimdall]

Lord Raijin wrote...

Just a head of warning.. Pro-templars get rather butthurt when things don't go their way, and will throw a temper tantraum by saying that they've reported you when in fact they don't. It's all talk the talk but not walk the walk type of situation.

I'd say that can go both ways...

[durasteel]

There seem to be cultures and societies on Thedas where mages are free and problems are rare. The elves seem to have gotten along just fine in Arlathan, and the Dalish don't seem to have widespread problems with their mages. Other nations like Rivain have magical traditions that predate the Chantry and the Circles and it doesn't seem to be a problem.

The issue seems to be that in the Imperium, the Magisters got way out of hand (supposedly because of the influence of the old gods) and made a big mess. In typical human fashion, the Cult of the Maker, once it became the Chantry, went too far in the other direction and has now made another big mess... although to be fair the Chantry didn't bring a taint like the Magisters seem to have done.

In some ways magic seems to have a bit in common with booze. You'll always have some people who can't control their drinking, and some people who can't use magic responsibly. If you focus on helping those folks deal with their problems, and with identifying problems early and responding with understanding, you can mitigate a lot of the damage. If, on the other hand, you try to enact prohibition, you wind up with an era of violence, crime, and mayhem.

Let Sandal do his thing, you get "enchantment." When he feels threatened, though, "boom" happens. The same is true of mages, and of Templars, and for that matter pretty much anyone.

[Hellion Rex]

durasteel wrote...

There seem to be cultures and societies on Thedas where mages are free and problems are rare. The elves seem to have gotten along just fine in Arlathan, and the Dalish don't seem to have widespread problems with their mages. Other nations like Rivain have magical traditions that predate the Chantry and the Circles and it doesn't seem to be a problem.

The issue seems to be that in the Imperium, the Magisters got way out of hand (supposedly because of the influence of the old gods) and made a big mess. In typical human fashion, the Cult of the Maker, once it became the Chantry, went too far in the other direction and has now made another big mess... although to be fair the Chantry didn't bring a taint like the Magisters seem to have done.

In some ways magic seems to have a bit in common with booze. You'll always have some people who can't control their drinking, and some people who can't use magic responsibly. If you focus on helping those folks deal with their problems, and with identifying problems early and responding with understanding, you can mitigate a lot of the damage. If, on the other hand, you try to enact prohibition, you wind up with an era of violence, crime, and mayhem.

Let Sandal do his thing, you get "enchantment." When he feels threatened, though, "boom" happens. The same is true of mages, and of Templars, and for that matter pretty much anyone.

The biggest thing for Tevinter was that their Templars don't have magic negating abilities, which means that magisters have total dominion.

[Lord Raijin]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Just a head of warning.. Pro-templars get rather butthurt when things don't go their way, and will throw a temper tantraum by saying that they've reported you when in fact they don't. It's all talk the talk but not walk the walk type of situation.

I'd say that can go both ways...

I never saw a pro-mage member casting a "I've reported you" spell at a pro-templar because they didn't like what they seen.

2 pro-Templars tried to to brand me the rite of tranqulity, to shut me up, and to repress me.

[Heimdall]

Lord Raijin wrote...

I never saw a pro-mage member casting a "I've reported you" spell at a pro-templar because they didn't like what they seen.

I have 

[Icy Magebane]

durasteel wrote...

There seem to be cultures and societies on Thedas where mages are free and problems are rare. The elves seem to have gotten along just fine in Arlathan, and the Dalish don't seem to have widespread problems with their mages. Other nations like Rivain have magical traditions that predate the Chantry and the Circles and it doesn't seem to be a problem.

The issue seems to be that in the Imperium, the Magisters got way out of hand (supposedly because of the influence of the old gods) and made a big mess. In typical human fashion, the Cult of the Maker, once it became the Chantry, went too far in the other direction and has now made another big mess... although to be fair the Chantry didn't bring a taint like the Magisters seem to have done.

In some ways magic seems to have a bit in common with booze. You'll always have some people who can't control their drinking, and some people who can't use magic responsibly. If you focus on helping those folks deal with their problems, and with identifying problems early and responding with understanding, you can mitigate a lot of the damage. If, on the other hand, you try to enact prohibition, you wind up with an era of violence, crime, and mayhem.

Let Sandal do his thing, you get "enchantment." When he feels threatened, though, "boom" happens. The same is true of mages, and of Templars, and for that matter pretty much anyone.

I actually really like those analogies.  Plus, you listed several cultures other than Tevinter that got along just fine without needing to imprison or kill their mages.  Well done.

[durasteel]

eluvianix wrote...

The biggest thing for Tevinter was that their Templars don't have magic negating abilities, which means that magisters have total dominion.

They might have the abilities, what they lack is the authority. The biggest problem with the mainstream Chantry, and with its Templars, is that no one serves as a check to its authority. The Seekers are just another branch of the same Chantry apparatus, so there is no one willing to challenge the assumption that whatever the Chantry decrees must in fact be The One True Word of the Maker.